For the Readers

[karmadog]

I spend a lot of time squirming on the web, and come across a significant amount of poetry. Would anyone be interested in the stuff I find? I could post a list of links to the stuff that seems interesting to me. I'm reading anyhow, and it wouldn't cost me much time to do it. Please let me know what you think.

 

[Senna Jawa]

I spend a lot of time squirming on the web, and come across a significant amount of poetry. Would anyone be interested in the stuff I find? I could post a list of links to the stuff that seems interesting to me. I'm reading anyhow, and it wouldn't cost me much time to do it. Please let me know what you think.

Certainly!

 

[karmadog]

random reading

I'm not at all sure that reading at random is the best way to get an education, but there it is.

Some of these people may be well known to some of you, but they are (mostly) new to me. At the very least, you may find a few publications that interest you.

I See Jimmy Stewart's Goddamn Book of Poems on the Shelf by Red Hawk http://shenandoah.wlu.edu/stewart.html

"... and I do not realize I have stomped on it
until the 2 security guards take me
firmly under the arms..."

This poet reminds me a little (maybe a lot) of Bukowski. Rage and humor, humor and rage. Laugh while you pound them over the head.

Sky Divers by Robert Cording http://www.sewanee.edu/sreview/Cording104.3.361.html

"Now, near day's end, they enter our view, at ease
In their wishbones of rope, their red nets of silk"

I love this opening. I like the way the word "wishbones" evokes the danger of the sport. The hope of survival.

The Send-Off by Wilfred Owen http://www.geocities.com/~spanoudi/poems/owen01.html#7

"DOWN the close, darkening lanes they sang their way
To the siding-shed,
And lined the train with faces grimly gay"

I discovered this guy about a year ago while doing research for a story set in WWI. He was published posthumously as he did not survive the war. I like the alliteration and the odd juxtaposition at the end of this line.

My Aunt Smokes Another Lucky Strike by Michael McFee http://www.doubletakemagazine.org/features/html/issue1/poetry/mcfee.php

"lifting the Lucky between two rednail fingers
like somebody about to take an oath,
her hand's glamorous gesture
echoing the pale curve of her cheek."

The eye of an artist and a nicely done word-picture. I can see a woman who was beautiful once and still carries herself as the young hottie she once was. This was my favorite poem of the day.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: random reading

I'm not at all sure that reading at random is the best way to get an education, but there it is.

Some of these people may be well known to some of you, but they are (mostly) new to me. At the very least, you may find a few publications that interest you.

I See Jimmy Stewart's Goddamn Book of Poems on the Shelf by Red Hawk http://shenandoah.wlu.edu/stewart.html

"... and I do not realize I have stomped on it
until the 2 security guards take me
firmly under the arms..."

This poet reminds me a little (maybe a lot) of Bukowski. Rage and humor, humor and rage. Laugh while you pound them over the head.

Thank U, Karmadog for your initiative and selection. I've read only the first one so far but hope to read more.

A well written, good poem. Not great but certainly interesting. It was satisfying to read it. Buk? Sure. He's a symbol, the thing too, but first of all a symbol. Buk was full of himself. That's why many poems by other authors writing in a similar style are better, more humane.

I had a friend who was a genius, died at twenty. I compare him sometimes with his peers, today around 55 years old, who kept & keep living and improving. He was already superb but would be still so much better, would achieve so much more. He did great translations starting at age 11. He was experimenting, he was taking his poetic ability for granted hence he didn't try to take full advantage of it, e.g. of the fact that he could easily write aesthetic poems using strict form -- that was not a constrain to him but he rarely did it. He was a painter and especially strong in graphics. His incredible photographic memory served him well in poetry too, of course. And another my friend writes unique poems. She wrote relatively few poems only and seems not to care to get recognition (perhaps it has to take tens of years, at least forty, to have such poems recognized anyway). The Hawk's poem has striked a personal cord in me.

Karmadog, thank U again,

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: random reading

Sky Divers by Robert Cording http://www.sewanee.edu/sreview/Cording104.3.361.html

"Now, near day's end, they enter our view, at ease
In their wishbones of rope, their red nets of silk"

I love this opening. I like the way the word "wishbones" evokes the danger of the sport. The hope of survival.

Great poetic concept. And the poem is very well written, it's very high on it's orbit. Many thanks, Karmadog.

I am bad, I still imagine a similar poem which would belong to a different and higher poetic orbit. I should be grateful for what I was given. And I am.

 

[karmadog]

As I say, I suffer the standard difficulties of the autodidact (gaping holes in my knowledge), but I cannot agree with you on Bukowski. There may be other poets more humane, but I have never, never read another poet more human. I admit that I only discovered him after the movie "Barfly", but I love his plain-spokeness, his brutality, and yes, his humanity. To me, a guy who does not see too many poets that are willing to get dirty, which makes him very humane to me, albeit frequently ugly. What poet is not full of himself? Does not poetry require a large amount of egotism? The poet, by definition, says, "Look at what I have to say! It is more insightful, more deep than how you see the world!" Isn't that why we read poetry? To see the world in a different way?

Sheesh. I didn't mean to make this thread a defense of Buk, but his background and mine are regrettably similar. He came to poetry relatively late from a sordid background. I relate.

Is it telling that one of my favorite writers of prose is Henry Miller? I cannot be the only one who sees the similarity, but with my lame educational background, I don't know.

 

[karmadog]

I'm curious if you think Robert Frost is right about the poet finding his voice by 25. I have a vested interest in that being 37. It's not that I think I am going to be a great poet, but it pisses me off when someone says if you're not there by 25 you're done.

Also, you mentioned imagining another poem on a higher plane than "Sky Divers". Give it up! Write it. I'd love to see it. I know you can do it.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Karmadog about Bukowski:

[...] I have never, never read another poet more human.

We would need to get into his poems. Even then, he wrote a lot. Perhaps he would do better without many of them. However I would need to read him anew.

What poet is not full of himself? Does not poetry require a large amount of egotism?

In my opinion, absolutely not. Moreover, I have examples, so it is more than a subjective opinion. Furthermore, if U want to be a truly outstanding poet, not merely recognized as such, then U CANNOT be full of yourself, it is impossible to write Poetry unless U r free from such silliness.

Also, I am afraid that U r stretching the meaning of "being full of yourself". Buk was full of himself not in the way U suggest but worse, in the standard way in which we understand this expression. His attitude toward women was often primitive (with some exceptions). And he would be idiotically proud of himself on this account too.

The poet, by definition, says, "Look at what I have to say! It is more insightful, more deep than how you see the world!" Isn't that why we read poetry? To see the world in a different way?

One has something to say, and in a special way, one has something to create.

...more...than...you...? That's a small ambition, low motivation, arrogant. It may lead somewhere but only so far and not farther.

Regards,

 

[Senna Jawa]

I'm curious if you think Robert Frost is right about the poet finding his voice by 25. I have a vested interest in that being 37. It's not that I think I am going to be a great poet, but it pisses me off when someone says if you're not there by 25 you're done.

Judging from the one poem by U, which I have read, U have a fair chance, granted that U'd get "crazy" about poetry. That would mean to live poetry and for poetry in several ways, and to get profound understanding followed by iron discipline. (It may mean that U'd be someone else ).

Also, you mentioned imagining another poem on a higher plane than "Sky Divers". Give it up! Write it. I'd love to see it. I know you can do it.

I cannot do it. I don't know the topic, I don't have the vocabulary, the feel... I have a bunch of excuses. And valid reasons too. Poems don't have to be related to me directly but there has to be a personal moment, experience, something, if it were more than an exercise. I have to know what I am talking about. I doubt that I will write more poems, and it doesn't bother me, it's fine.

BTW (just in case). "Sky Divers" is a good poem. It would not be easy to write a better one. I didn't mean to put it down.

Best regards,

 

[karmadog]

Some more stuff

I haven't been reading that much lately (more fool I), but here are a few things that I found interesting or excellent or both.

Leavings by
R. Erica Doyle

“Class is hard. My roommate smells like a horse.
I have a job as a security guard. A car would be good.
Send curry.”

Prose poetry seems to be very popular at
Ploughshares. This one might appeal to me because it
somehow reminds me of a friend who was killed in a car crash his freshman year of
college.

Be Drunk
“You have to be always drunk. That's all there is to it--it's the only way. So as not to feel
the horrible burden of time that breaks your back and bends you to the earth, you have to
be continually drunk.”

This one by Charles Baudelaire (trans. Louis Simpson) sounded like a command. He’s
not really talking about what you think, although he mentions it. He’s really talking about
living life to the fullest. I didn’t know that the prose poem reached back to the 19th
century. I have so much to learn.

This one is an audio poem by Yusef Komunyakaa called
Ode to the Maggot. Just
click on the link (must have Real Player)

Never heard of this guy but, I liked this poem. I like his voice. I like his accent(Bogalusa, Louisiana). I like his title. I
particularly liked the closing lines. Looked for a printed version, but couldn’t find one. So
here’s another poem by him instead:

Elegy
for Thelonius.

“Damn the snow.
Its senseless beauty
pours a hard light
through the hemlock.
Thelonious is dead...”

I’m definitely going to keep my eyes open for more of his stuff. He rocks!

 

[Senna Jawa]

I cannot agree with you on Bukowski. There may be other poets more humane, but I have never, never read another poet more human.

Well, that's easy, most of the great poets r more humane than Buk was: Brodsky, Herbert, Szymborska... the list goes on. On the other hand check this one by Bukowski:

  melancholia

U may find more at:

  Charles Bukowski

He was a great poet, had a great impact on American poetry, and even outside of the US. He also let some of his poor thingies into the public domain like one from the above mentioned collection:

&nbsp oh, yes

Pure junk, there is no poetry in it whatsoever.

It is important to realize that such things happen or else people get confused about poetry, as we see around, about everywhere, including Literotica.

Regards,

 

[karmadog]

Oh, yes

I agree. That poem is awful, but nobody's good all the time.

 

[daughter]

Whatcha reading?

karmadog--

I hope folks don't mind the other thread. You're providing links. I'm asking folks to provide book titles and mini reviews.

Thanks for keeping the reading in the forefront.

Peace,

daughter

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: Oh, yes

I agree. That poem is awful, but nobody's good all the time.

I beg to differ ,

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: Oh, yes

I agree. That poem is awful, but nobody's good all the time.

I mean I agree about "oh, yes". But I disagree about many strong poets not being good all the time. Some were and some r very good all the time. When U r really good U r not even able to write a weak poem. Not every poem can or has to be equally important, but each of them should be a poem, should have something to it, and should never dive below a standard level. It's a professional thing one could say.

Regards,

 

[karmadog]

Maybe you're right about poets always being good. Perhaps what I really mean is that a poem is not always good for me. Different thing.

I found on another site an essay about a Henry Miller book that I had not heard of. Apparently, he was paid a dollar a page back in the fifties to write pornography to be published in extremely limited quantities by a bookstore owner. The guy sold porn to various Hollywood heavyweights.

The woman who wrote the essay seemed to really enjoy the book.

"I don't usually get wet from seeing acts of degradation, but Opus Pistorum tested my limits."

"Frankly, it made me horny. Whatever else you can say about Miller, he liked a good fuck."

Here's a link to the story. The book is currently available by the title "Under the Roofs of Paris".

Hopefully, I'll be reading it on Tuesday.

I also found this poem that I liked. It's by a woman called Elizabeth Oness (sounds like a pseudonym, doesn't it?).

Not How I Touched It, But That I Touched It At All

"...When ice began to limn
the shallow puddles, I tested the frost-hatched
covers, pressed my toe against the seam
of water and air..."

I could have put that on my "freakin' good titles" thread!

 

[Senna Jawa]

karmadog's sig

Karmadog's new sig:

Somebody please vote on this. I know there are nine very uneven haiku here, but they have zero votes. I just hate seeing that goose egg. I'll change my sig after just one. And whoever votes on it gets a spankin'. (Most places you'd want to do that the opposite)

Karmadog, but I like your present sig!

 

[karmadog]

Yeah, but what do you think of Yusef Komunyakaa?

It won't change my opinion, but I'm curious what you old school educated types think.

 

[Ancient117331]

Bukowski

Why was his "Oh Yes" awful or was the word awefull?

I liked what he had to say and the way he sad it in "Oh Yes"... was mindfull of his "I Met A Genius". As to his attitude(s) toward women? Times shape the authors as much as authors shape the times. I CAN disagree with his attitude(s) and appreciate his thoughts.

......................................

"Distraction..."

Singular observations,
moments of reflection(s) or
just a simple pause
in breathing -
speak
volumes unknown before
and since...
who loses more -
I for not thinking
or
you for not caring?

Chris Twyford
Ancient117331

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I must say I have absolutely no idea of what SJ is talking about when he says

oh, yes
Pure junk, there is no poetry in it whatsoever.

and trashes melancholia. I wish you would elaborate on what makes you state so categorically what is poetry and what's not, what's junk and what's not. I really can't understand you...

"It is important to realize that such things happen or else people get confused about poetry, as we see around, about everywhere, including Literotica." Enlighten us.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Originally posted by Lauren.Hynde [see above--sj]

Please, Lauren, don't shout at me. And be accurate. I didn't trash "melancholia".

 

[karmadog]

No, he liked "Melancholia", disliked "oh, yes". I agreed. I didn't like "oh, yes" either. It sounds trite to me. And, to me, it suffers from preachiness. The kiss of death in a poem. Not that I could do better, my poems french kissed death. Some of them even fucked him.

I love Buk though.

Chris, I'm not sure that I see the similarity. In what way are they similar to you?

 

[Ancient117331]

Karmadog

His (Bukowski's) style remains crisp, brief, clear, straightforward for both. He found a 'reality' for himself and expressed it without apologizing for it... least thats my take on the two.

Chris Twyford
Ancient117331

 

[Senna Jawa]

awful spelling

awful or was the word awefull?

[...]was mindfull

Chris Twyford
Ancient117331

Feel free to spell   awful mindful etc.   your way and I'll keep spelling them the English way.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Sorry about that.

And still you're avoiding the real question. Typical.

«I wish you would elaborate on what makes you state so categorically what is poetry and what's not, what's junk and what's not. I really can't understand you...

"It is important to realize that such things happen or else people get confused about poetry, as we see around, about everywhere, including Literotica." Enlighten us.» Pleeease.