Flipping abortion

[desecration]

It seems to me that we are going about this the wrong way. Right now, we assume that every innocent is innocent until proven guilty by their parent attempting to abort them. But we have tons of idiots, fools, liars, criminals, and so on, so obviously this approach is not working. I think we should assume that every fetus is guilty until proven innocent, meaning that every pregnancy should be scheduled for abortion unless the parent can prove the kid is going to be of above-average intelligence, in a good home, and will contribute something to society.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

 

[ll74]

Dumb thread.

 

[desecration]

Dumb thread.

Next time you run into someone so dumb or pointlessly aggressive that they should have been aborted, you will think of this thread and wonder why you ever resisted my wisdom.

 

[ll74]

Next time you run into someone so dumb or pointlessly aggressive that they should have been aborted, you will think of this thread and wonder why you ever resisted my wisdom.

Yes, you seem to like that stupid position

 

[desecration]

I guess I should post this study here too:

We estimate that overall crime fell 17.5% from 1998 to 2014 due to legalized abortion—a decline of 1% per year. From 1991 to 2014, the violent and property crime rates each fell by 50%. Legalized abortion is estimated to have reduced violent crime by 47% and property crime by 33% over this period, and thus can explain most of the observed crime decline.

Think of what we could save with approval-only birth.

 

[RobDownSouth]

It seems to me that we are going about this the wrong way. Right now, we assume that every innocent is innocent until proven guilty by their parent attempting to abort them. But we have tons of idiots, fools, liars, criminals, and so on, so obviously this approach is not working. I think we should assume that every fetus is guilty until proven innocent, meaning that every pregnancy should be scheduled for abortion unless the parent can prove the kid is going to be of above-average intelligence, in a good home, and will contribute something to society.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Your premise works under the flawed assumption that a fetus has "rights", which prior to fetal viability is an absurd premise.

I will admit this is one of your better attempts to "flip the script" and make those who support bodily autonomy "play defense" though.
Five points for Hufflepuff.

 

[desecration]

Your premise works under the flawed assumption that a fetus has "rights", which prior to fetal viability is an absurd premise.

My argument does not involve this at all. Instead I am saying that abortion cut social ills when it was voluntary, so when mandatory (until proven otherwise) it could substantially reduce social ills.

Legal access to abortion reduced the fraction of women who became teen moms by one-third, and it reduced the fraction of women who got married as teenagers by about a fifth.

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/26/1101...s-to-lower-child-poverty-rates-economists-say

We can basically eliminate the problem of teen parenthood, for example, and that will lift many out of poverty.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

It seems to me that we are going about this the wrong way. Right now, we assume that every innocent is innocent until proven guilty by their parent attempting to abort them. But we have tons of idiots, fools, liars, criminals, and so on, so obviously this approach is not working. I think we should assume that every fetus is guilty until proven innocent, meaning that every pregnancy should be scheduled for abortion unless the parent can prove the kid is going to be of above-average intelligence, in a good home, and will contribute something to society.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Eugeninics is evil. Once you decide you can force women to abort potential “undesirables”, you can use the same rationale to build death camps.

 

[desecration]

Once you decide you can force women to abort potential “undesirables”, you can use the same rationale to build death camps.

Death camps require killing people after birth, though.

For example, Myers (2017) found that abortion legalization reduced the number of women who became teen mothers by 34% and the number who became teen brides by 20%, and again observed effects that were even larger for Black teens.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/...he-effect-of-abortion-access-on-womens-lives/
It's a massive reduction in teen pregnancy.
It literally cuts poverty:

Researchers using difference-in-differences research designs have found that abortion legalization reduced the number of children who were unwanted (Bitler and Zavodny, 2002a, reduced cases of child neglect and abuse (Bitler and Zavodny, 2002b; 2004), reduced the number of children who lived in poverty (Gruber, Levine, and Staiger, 1999), and improved long-run outcomes of an entire generation of children by increasing the likelihood of attending college and reducing the likelihood of living in poverty and receiving public assistance (Ananat, Gruber, Levine, and Staiger, 2009).

 

[desecration]

Look at what we can do away with by having mandatory abortions:

A large body of research from the Turnaway study has shown that people who were denied a wanted abortion experienced elevated levels of anxiety and stress; increases in poverty, debt, and evictions; and their existing children had worse child development outcomes compared to children of people who received an abortion.

https://sph.washington.edu/news-events/sph-blog/why-abortion-criminalization-public-health-issue

 

[desecration]

We can save children from horrible life outcomes:

From 6 months to 4.5 years after their mothers sought abortions, existing children of women denied abortions had lower mean child development scores (adjusted β -0.04, 95% CI -0.07 to -0.00) and were more likely to live below the Federal Poverty Level (aOR 3.74, 95% CI 1.59-8.79) than the children of women who received a wanted abortion.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30389101/

 

[desecration]

Aborted kids are unwanted by their parents:

However, mixed-effects models adjusting for clustered recruitment and multiple observations per child revealed that poor maternal bonding was more common for index children compared with subsequent children (9% vs 3%; adjusted odds ratio, 5.14; 95% CI, 1.48-17.85).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30193363/

 

[ll74]

Seriously dumb thread

 

[desecration]

It's a poverty reducer:

White women currently account for about 39% of abortions in this country, while Black women account for about 28%, according to the Guttmacher Institute, which collects such data. Perhaps the more relevant statistic is this one: 75% of women who obtain abortions are low-income.

https://omaha.com/opinion/column/fr...cle_3b1d714f-e664-50fa-b684-02aed2c5fe4b.html

 

[desecration]

Interesting origin story:

Throughout the twentieth century, eugenicists promoted abortion and birth control, claiming that if the “lower classes” would only have fewer children, crime would also decline. This was one of the primary themes of Margaret Sanger’s Birth Control Review, in which Montgomery Mulford wrote: “I am of the belief that the acceptance of birth control by society, and its frank teaching, can help diminish criminal activity!”

https://www.hli.org/resources/does-abortion-reduce-crime/

 

[adrina]

I find it fascinating when uninformed men discuss abortion.

 

[desecration]

I find it fascinating when uninformed men discuss abortion.

Invite some into the thread then!

 

[adrina]

Invite some more into the thread then!

FYPYW

 

[desecration]

We find that abortion rate has a significant and negative impact on crime rates, specifically, homicide and theft. We also observe support for the impact of legalization of abortion on the reduction of crime when considering different calculations of the accumulation of abortions based on different criteria for the legalization of abortion.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0144818814000568

 

[RobDownSouth]

My argument does not involve this at all. Instead I am saying that abortion cut social ills when it was voluntary, so when mandatory (until proven otherwise) it could substantially reduce social ills.

We can basically eliminate the problem of teen parenthood, for example, and that will lift many out of poverty.

You're obfuscating again.
Because SOME women DESIRE to have an abortion, you propose ALL women should be REQUIRED to have an abortion.
You just seem to want to remove ANY bodily autonomy from ALL women.
It's obviously a control thang with you.

 

[desecration]

Because SOME women DESIRE to have an abortion, you propose ALL women should be REQUIRED to have an abortion.

Any pregnant men will face the same rule, as well as anyone operating (future) cloning machinery.

 

[adrina]

Yeah definitive lack of sincerity from this account.

 

[RoryN]

Yeah definitive lack of sincerity from this account.

Yup. Sealion all the way.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Yeah definitive lack of sincerity from this account.

How would you rank this lack of sincerity on a scale of 1-to-AJ?

 

[desecration]

No, completely sincere, although hyperbole was employed. I watched people fight over abortion while neglecting real issues for most of my life. I think it is bad law to try to ban it, since people are just going to do it on their own. I have no problem with some states banning it in order to drive people who want lots of casual sex away; these states are doing so to improve the quality of their citizens genetically. By the same token, abortion seems like a benefit to genetics. Most of the people getting abortions are poor and in dire straits or lost teenagers, and those kids are doomed anyway. Might as well save the parents. I can't get behind a straight ticket on issues for either party.