First Time Submission feedback needed.

[ShazzyB]

Hi all

i was wondering if you could give me a bit of feedback on my first accepted submission please.

I would be very grateful for any comments, hints or tips on my foray into erotic writing.

thanks
S xxx

 

[PennLady]

Hi all

i was wondering if you could give me a bit of feedback on my first accepted submission please.

I would be very grateful for any comments, hints or tips on my foray into erotic writing.

thanks
S xxx

It'd help if you provided a link, and noted what category it's in. People don't always want to be surprised.

 

[ShazzyB]

oh my...what a great way to start!!! :blush: its in erotic couplings

http://www.literotica.com/s/a-bit-of-rough

 

[Lien_Geller]

Here ya go!

Congrats on your first submission!

Ok so here’s what I thought. First up, it’s incredibly short. There isn’t much in the way of characterisation and once the sex starts you lose a lot of the atmosphere. Take your time, set the scene properly and introduce us to the people involved. This reads a lot like a personal fantasy, which is fine if you’re writing for yourself. If you want to write for a wider audience you need to flesh out your ideas more. You tend to use ellipsis in places where they aren’t necessary and for a story this short it doesn’t seem like you’ve done more than a simple first draft. I can see certain mistakes like:

‘You drag me further into the darkness, until you find the doorway at the far end...the street sounds and bright lights are muted to a distant hum and glow, and turn and push me roughly against the cool stone wall.’

This sounds muddled; like two or three sentences got merged into one.

All in all this reads a lot like an author who was a little too eager to get their first submission out there. It’s easy to see your enthusiasm but in my opinion you just need to spend some more time with your work. Read it aloud; think about if you’ve really conveyed what you want to.

Also, I’d consider avoiding writing in the first person. Reading a story from a woman’s perspective, particularly an erotic story, can sometimes alienate men and vice versa. This isn’t always true of course but if you’re just starting out then diving straight into first person can be difficult if you want everyone to read your story.

So those were my thoughts! Feel free to cherish or ignore them at your leisure. Good luck on your next piece! )

 

[ShazzyB]

Thanks for your comments, they are much appreciated. I guess my first few pieces that I have written have been written in the first person, as I want the reader to imagine they are that 'first person' if that makes sense, that they are IN the story.

Its like a kind of 'point of view' and I want the reader to be able to feel, see, smell what I write about. But I do take on board your constructive criticisms, and will try my hand at writing without alienating half my audience with one fell swoop LOL

s x

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Congrats on your first submission!

‘You drag me further into the darkness, until you find the doorway at the far end...the street sounds and bright lights are muted to a distant hum and glow, and turn and push me roughly against the cool stone wall.’

This sounds muddled; like two or three sentences got merged into one.

Also, I’d consider avoiding writing in the first person. Reading a story from a woman’s perspective, particularly an erotic story, can sometimes alienate men and vice versa. This isn’t always true of course but if you’re just starting out then diving straight into first person can be difficult if you want everyone to read your story.

I echo Lien's congrats and a warm welcome to the big pond.

Your comment that you want 'me' to be 'you' doesn't work outside IM. If you choose first person POV - difficult but can be effective in erotica - you can't use 'you'. Simple me, the reader, needs a POV and you start with making me empathise with 'I', then tell me I am 'you'. I don't fully agree with Lien that the gender of the narrator is a problem, but if you use first person you are asking us to follow 'your' thoughts. We don't want to be impersonal 'you'. We see things through 'I's' eyes and you can't know what's in 'you's' mind.

Make 'you' a person and then you can flesh him out as we follow 'I's' emotions. Making the reader a character is not a good idea.

You do rush; this is a sex scene, not a story; but there are enough signs to support Lien's comment that if you stop hurrying you will write some good erotica.

Develop your characters, have an edit, and put the sex scenes in the context of a plot. You have a pretty good start.

Elle

 

[PennLady]

The others have made good points -- this is less a story than a vignette or scene, and even for that, it's rushed.

I'd also have to say I didn't like the I/you construction. I think first person is fine for writing erotica (I don't use it, but plenty of others do to good effect), but I don't want to be the "you" in this story. I don't like being treated like that, so the story did nothing for me in an erotic sense. You can get people to experience things just fine, no matter what POV you use.

And for the record, I don't like being the "you" in any story. I click off when I find that's the way a story's been written.

I do think that if you turn "you" into a character, whether or not you retain the first person narrator, it could help deepen the story, provided that's what you want to do. I could even see a series of these encounters.

But tell us more. Who are these people? Why do they do this? What is exciting them?

As far as first person narration, people have been back and forth on this. I personally don't think that it is any more or less difficult than writing in third person. Certain things may require a different approach, as you can't describe what any other characters are feeling or thinking, but you can get around that. Still, it's not any more "difficult" than anything else. If a guy doesn't like a story told from a female POV, well, then he doesn't, but that's not a slam on the author's choice.

 

[SydneyBlake]

And for the record, I don't like being the "you" in any story. I click off when I find that's the way a story's been written.

Me, too. I think it's too personal. Fine for when you're writing specifically to someone you know, like a letter. But for the masses? Not something many can pull off.

 

[sr71plt]

And for the record, I don't like being the "you" in any story. I click off when I find that's the way a story's been written.

I do think that if you turn "you" into a character, whether or not you retain the first person narrator, it could help deepen the story, provided that's what you want to do. I could even see a series of these encounters.

But tell us more. Who are these people? Why do they do this? What is exciting them?

As far as first person narration, people have been back and forth on this. I personally don't think that it is any more or less difficult than writing in third person. Certain things may require a different approach, as you can't describe what any other characters are feeling or thinking, but you can get around that. Still, it's not any more "difficult" than anything else. If a guy doesn't like a story told from a female POV, well, then he doesn't, but that's not a slam on the author's choice.

I'm not wild about having a "you" character either. I've done it occasionally but only for a very short, intense piece where the "you" was more an unspeaking prop and it was all about the "I."

I also don't think that it's any harder to write in first person than in third. They each have their advantages and pitfalls.

 

[PennLady]

I'm not wild about having a "you" character either. I've done it occasionally but only for a very short, intense piece where the "you" was more an unspeaking prop and it was all about the "I."

I also don't think that it's any harder to write in first person than in third. They each have their advantages and pitfalls.

I haven't written in first person, but it's not because I think it's any better or worse than third, which is what I do. It's simply different, and I feel there are limitations vs. third person, and mostly I don't feel like wiggling around those limitations. Still, that's just one person's choice.

As for "you," that's different. Basically, I don't want to be the "you." I don't want to be in the story. If I wanted that, I'd write it and I'd make it first person and I'd be the "I". To me, it feels like a "you" is making an assumption that I want to be there, and while that's fine in general, I don't care for it.

For this story in particular (A Bit of Rough), I didn't like it in part because I don't like the way the narrator is treated by the "you." At the end, it becomes apparent this is a game they both play and enjoy, and that's fine, but that wasn't enough to make me enjoy being the "you."

But that's why they make a back button.

 

[ShazzyB]

many thanks for all of your comments and critiques, its been much appreciated. I clearly have masses to learn about writing erotica.

If I decide to write anything else, apart from 2 that are already submitted, pending approval (first person again...sorry ), I will endeavour to take on board your comments, and write a better story.

 

[ShazzyB]

sorry...double post!

 

[SevenSquared]

I think writing in the first person is fine, and in some ways I think it's actually easier. You don't have to worry about articulating the thoughts of more than one person, you can see everything from that one person's perspective and through their eyes. It is also easier to jump around in time, and explain the reasons the protagonist is acting in a certain way, where appropriate. Of course, the downside is that other characters in the story are closed books. Their thoughts and motives have to remain hidden and you can only give clues through their actions, which some people find hard to write. If you find it easier to write in the first person, then I suggest that's what you go ahead and do. You can always go back and try 3rd person later.

I will add my voice to those criticising the 'you' dynamic though. I think this is very hard to pull off realistically and I think it only works when the 'you' plays a relatively passive role in the scene. Otherwise it fells like you are 'Godmodding' as Roleplayers like to call it.

I quite liked the story though, as far as it went, it just needed a bit more fleshing out and proofreading really. Best of luck with future stories.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I also don't think that it's any harder to write in first person than in third. They each have their advantages and pitfalls.

No it's not, if you have some knowledge of the constraints of POV - which many new creative writers here don't.

Surely, if you start reading a story that begins, "I must tell you about. . .", you click back straight away.

The problem one often finds on Lit with first person is that the writer sees themself as both protagonist and narrator. The reader is a voyeur - erotica or mainstream - and enveigling them into the narrative is a recipe for disaster.

We've clashed on this subject many times but, whilst agreeing with you that first and limited view third person are pretty much identical, I think there is a mote in your eye that doesn't see the elephant traps new writers can fall into. The stories are not, 'What I did on my holidays'. In brief, the author is not 'I'.

 

[sr71plt]

As you post, we disagree. The difference is that you're rabid about it--purely on personal preference. Well, guess what. It isn't your story. You haven't had any stories for years and years and years.

 

[SevenSquared]

As an experiment, I just checked the top 10 stories in the Hall of Fame for Erotic Couplings (I figured this would be a large and fairly 'neutral' category). The result?

First person - 5
Third person - 5

Of course, I'm not saying this statistic by itself means a whole lot, but I think it's fair to say that a large of number of people like writing in the first person and, more importantly, a large number of people like reading in it too.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

As you post, we disagree. The difference is that you're rabid about it--purely on personal preference. Well, guess what. It isn't your story. You haven't had any stories for years and years and years.

No, I love first person and would want more writers to try it. It works well when written well. The mote in your eye - which I will nickname 'elfin' - is you don't, or won't, share some of your academic brilliance to point out why so many attempts at first person screw up POV's and should be left in High School.

You don't teach - surely the point of Story Feedback - but seem to think that running your 'dog in heat' pursuit of me excuses you from your shameful dereliction of sharing your knowledge with people who would be very grateful.

Writing prolifically is often the sign of an inadequate character that needs others to pat him on the back. With your knowledge, surely you could stoop to give those lower on the ladder a helping hand.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, you do go on. And on, and on, and on. Crazy, crazy, crazy.

 

[KatieTay]

why didn't anyone in this thread point out that using "you" as the main pronoun is neither 1st nor 3rd, but 2nd person.

 

[sr71plt]

why didn't anyone in this thread point out that using "you" as the main pronoun is neither 1st nor 3rd, but 2nd person.

Probably because just using "you" isn't second person. Second person requires everything to be in the head of the "you" too. In nearly every case that someone thinks they are in the second person, they aren't. If there's any "I" perception there at all, it is in first person.

 

[KatieTay]

oh... yes you're right.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

oh... yes you're right.

No, he's not. 'You' is incontravertibly, cast in stone since the birth of the English language, a second person pronoun, as it is in this story. What sr means is that this is not second person POV.

I think, thanks to you, I finally grasp why I have spats with sr about first person. From his knowledge and experience he naturally excludes the expression 'POV' as a redundancy. He is naturally talking writing not pronouns.

POV is quite a subject for a new writer and not approachable from rules of grammar - even the difference between third person restrictive and omniscient takes a wet towel round the head to fathom out.

When a lot of new writers start with first person they confuse the protag with the author and the antag with the reader. A POV 101 written by an acknowledged expert woud be a great asset.

My gripe is that there is so little advice on Lit about POV, which surely is the foundation stone of fiction writing. sr encourages new writers to venture into the troubled waters of first person POV without a lifevest. If he were really the kind guru he pretends to be he would write a series of 'How To's' on POV to educate us all. I won't hold my breath.

A little 'giving back' would be a charitable gesture to us poor lambs.

 

[LaBurquette]

I liked this...

This is almost flash erotica. I really liked it.

I'm not a person who usually likes reading in the present tense. At the beginning of the story I found it a little distracting but by the time they're into the sex, it added to the immediacy of the scene.

It was just a single scene but it was very hot. I'll enjoy seeing what you do with something longer.

As far as constructive criticism goes...I was distracted by the dialogue. I know they're talking dirty but it's mundane dirty talk. I think you could ramp up the hotness if you played with that. Also, as one poster pointed out above, there's a roughness to the writing style that muddies the mental pictures. For example you write:

"...the street sounds and bright lights are muted to a distant hum and glow, and turn and push me roughly against the cool stone wall."

This makes it sound like the street sounds and bright lights pushed the main character against a wall. For the split second it takes for me to sort out what's really happening, I'm not thinking about the sexy tension.

All in all, though, I think is a very nice scene and I hope you post more!

 

[ShazzyB]

Thanks everyone, especially L/B.....Whilst my submission was not massively fabulous, it does seem to have stimulated a lively debate, which can only be a good thing!