find a job

[silverwhisper]

so rather than continuing to use primalex like a two bit hooker during shore leave, let's move on to more interesting things...such as this interesting article from CIO. it's a useful reminder that even when things are bad, there are some situations that should be avoided.

ed

 

[Primalex]

Was the writer too wiped out to add "ly" after the exertions of typing "serious"? What kind of home-made grammar rule-book do the last two words obey?

This is why I don't work as writer, silly slut. Obviously you failed to understand that this is not the "who writes better english" discussion - but a reminder that you need to present yourself properly for the job that you are applying to.

I am a highly sucessful, full-time, employed technical writer and editor. Do I write my porn stories or my forum posts in the style I use for my work? If you'll pardon the expression, do I hell as like!! Do I feel I should? What a ridiculous idea!

And what has this to do with the topic? Do you HIRE the technical writers? No. Are you the guy who reviews the applications of technical writers? No. Is your opinion a general guideline for resource managers? No. Do you write all lower-case here? No.

 

[Cattypuss]

And what has this to do with the topic? Do you HIRE the technical writers? .

Well actually I do hire them (or rather I choose them and the company hires them after I've chosen them), but let's not let the facts get in the way of a good attempt at back-pedalling on your part lol.

Bye bye.

 

[Primalex]

Well actually I do hire them (or rather I choose them and the company hires them after I've chosen them), but let's not let the facts get in the way of a good attempt at back-pedalling on your part lol.

Bye bye.

It's not my fault that you can't read.

Let me quote myself again:

I wouldn't hire a technical writer who has trouble with the capitalizing of letters.

I don't want a technical writer who needs to look up the spelling of basic words or who has to concentrate just to remember that he is not writing on his blog.

No, wait, let me emphasize:

I wouldn't hire a technical writer who has trouble with the capitalizing of letters.

I really don't care how you choose the people for your company.

 

[emap]

Well at least we have two good looks at people you shouldn't act like in this thread. Silverwhisper cause he's got shifty eyes and he loves abusing me with trout.

Can't forget about the other one, Primalex who is a very prime example of knowing what you are talking about or looking like well primalex. If I have to explain what's wrong with primalex you need to find yourself a behavioral therapist and stop acting like that, or you happen to be primalex, and you really really need to do the same thing.

 

[silverwhisper]

cattypus, i feel kinda guilty for how much i'm enjoying the ass-reaming primalex is taking from you. could you perhaps put a leather mask on him next time? :>

ed

 

[Cattypuss]

 

[silverwhisper]

although this article is also from CIO, it's got much broader applicability than just to IT professionals, as it addresses how to avoid the appearance of job-hopping on your resume.

ed

p.s.: [trout-smacks emap, shifts eyes]

 

[emap]

See I told you guys, he has shifty eyes.

[trout smacks silverwhisper]

Oh shoot my bad, I remember there was an article about pre-interview evaluation of applicants. Rather interesting and a teensy on the flippy side with the stuff mentioned. I have no idea where I saw it so your gonna have to make do with a quick run down from my memory.

Flippy stuff first:

There was mention of a CEO who would have his secretary go outside and look into an applicants car, if it was messy he was not hired.

At least one uses lunch/dinner as an interview, eating habits are important apparently, one man was not hired because he cut up his steak then ate it.

Slightly less flippy but still not exactly a good basis:

The applicant is made to wait and his waiting habit is watched, if he plays games on his cell phone, downloads music and listens to it loudly he isn't hired.

Course I'm gonna point out something, that last bit is something of a know what your talking about thingy. If your trying to get a job in high finance, stock trading and so forth, you really MUST know everything there is to know about whatever facet is done at that business. Doesn't matter if you graduated top of your class at Harvard, if a guy who was second in class at ASU comes in and knows instantly the answer to everything asked and has interest in high finance he is so hired not you.

Waitresses have the same thingy applied, though we get a trial hire, if it isn't your first job as a waitress you get one night to not drop a tray, not fuck up who gets what and to be friendly. If you screw up, you get paid for one night and don't get any more. Waitress jobs are a dime a dozen, there's always places looking, high end jobs on the other hand, they get 50000 applications for one spot. If you can't make your resume and yourself stand out above the rest, you are so not hired, if your resume doesn't scream hire me to them you won't even get an interview.

 

[silverwhisper]

[cetacean-clobbers emap]

 

[emap]

So like bumpage and of course:

[Octopus gropes Silverwhisper]

 

[silverwhisper]

[cephalopod-stuns emap]





i just encountered a fascinating article on CIO which discusses using linkedin, a blog and google analytics to determine who's researching you. the sad thing is, i have a linkedin account and tied a blog to it but haven't updated it in almost a year. time to yank the old blog entries and start writing again...

ed

 

[The_Rabbi]

I can share a lesson that I learned.
Three years ago I was dismissed from a job I had for many, many years and made six figures with all the perks. I was devastated and shocked, but I was also too "proud" to look at jobs that were beneath me.
After I exhausted most of my money and year of misery, I finally decided to take one of those lesser jobs. And I'm really enjoying it, working hard to gain stature and trust. I've found that I can live on less income and I'm a hell of lot more motivated now than I was for most of the last five or six years at the other job.
The lesson: Don't let pride get in the way.

 

[silverwhisper]

that's a good point: ego can easily become a job seeker's worst enemy. i've certainly seen it happen to others i know.

ed

 

[silverwhisper]

edited to bump.

 

[silverwhisper]

the NYT has a great article about executive search firms and how a few of them are a scam. a guy i know from one of my networking groups has made it his mission to steer people away from these clowns by offering competing job search advice for free. :>

ed

 

[silverwhisper]

i wanted to bump this thread (look at the OP date, it's 4 years ago) cuz honestly, i've learned a fuckload about the job search process, became involved in a few networking groups and have become quite well-informed on the subject.

and now that i'm working as a recruiter and the continued sluggish economy, i thought this thread merited some bumping.

i'm going to periodically use it to share interesting tidbits or articles i encounter.

ed

 

[GrrlFriday]

Something that I've learned (the easy way, thank goodness) is that when a potential employer gives you a list of criteria that they want you to write a response to, for goodness sakes' don't leave any out, even if you're not sure what they mean!

Not answering all their criteria will land your application in the bin - from their perspective, if you can't be bothered (or don't understand enough) to complete the application, you won't make a good employee.

 

[GiggLeGasm]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I have nurtured many new hires through orientation. Every one of them had to rely on written communication skills because the first two phases of the application process are online. So, without assaulting anyone in particular, it doesn't matter what job you want. If you want the potential employer to consider you as a serious applicant, your writing needs to make that impression.

The buzzwords are cliche' things that will be on a majority of resumes.
The experience only matters if it can be clearly articulated.

If you're not having luck, consider a career center with a person who specializes in tailoring your approach.

 

[unicorn64]

I think I have screwed up a couple of interviews because when they ask why I want a job while on social security. That I really should stay retired and let the younger women work. I say two reasons I like to work and don't like so much idle time and then I say social security really isn't enough to live on. Or they ask where I expect to be in 10 years or 20 bearing in mind I will be 75 in 10 years and 85 in 20. I say that age has nothing to do with where you want to be. I want to be head of a department and managing all the various aspects of the job I am applying for. I hope to make innovative changes that improve the working environment for everyone. One interviewer said so you want my job huh. I said yes after you get your promotion. Guess you want to appear enthusiastic but not too much so. In one case I lost it because my computer experience and web building was limited to being web master of my churches web site. It was the only web building experience I had. At the time I had been doing it for 7 years and experience is experience isn't it. Not when it is the church. I guess.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Three years ago I switched companies and the type of job I do. I'm an electrical engineer, but that job is extremely broad. So basically, it's like being a foreign language teacher. I was switching from teaching Spanish to teaching German. Same type of job, just very different set of knowledge requirements.

Well, when I interviewed for my job, there were a lot of extremely technical questions. They would give me schematics and engineering problems to solve in the interview. Well, since I was switching fields, I probably only knew about 50% of the answers on this test. This was a position that required about 7-8 years experience. So, that's not a really good percentage for a job requiring such experience.

However, when it got to the questions or problems I didn't know, I took my time, read them, but if I couldn't come up with a reasonable answer, I would tell them I didn't know. There's no point in me trying to fool people who are experts in the field.

My boss later told me that there were other people who did better on the technical interview than I did. But he said every one of them tried to bullshit their way through the answers they didn't know. So, he hired me instead, someone who had less than a year cumulative experience in this particular field of engineering. All because I was honest about what I knew.

So, I write this long ass post to say this: don't bullshit on an interview. Present yourself in the most positive light possible. But don't misrepresent yourself. Be honest about what you know and what you don't know.

 

[pplwatching]

My first pearl of wisdom is to learn how to write effectively. Spelling and grammer matter, at least at our shop. It really chafes me when I see documents (ot e-mails) going to customers with errors that should have been caught by a proof read. In my job it falls on me to interview and make hiring decisions. An employee once balked when asked to write a status report, saying "<In my field> I don't need to know how to write". I now insist on a writing sample before any hiring decision to ensure that they can convey their ideas in a concise manner. I have passed over well qualified candidates for lack of writing ability.

 

[silverwhisper]

grrlfriday quoth:
not answering all their criteria will land your application in the bin - from their perspective, if you can't be bothered (or don't understand enough) to complete the application, you won't make a good employee.

this is absolutely, unquestionably true.

unicorn64 quoth:
...i say two reasons I like to work and don't like so much idle time and then i say social security really isn't enough to live on.

no employer wants to hear that they want the job for the money. it's like walking up to a complete stranger and suggesting, without preamble, that you have sex. that's exactly how crass that is. we know you want money, but we also want to see that you want the job because you are after that kind of challenge. that's how we separate the typical candidate from the folks we short-list.

unicorn64 quoth:
guess you want to appear enthusiastic but not too much so.

according to every career coach i've ever met, the right way to answer that question is some variation on "wherever my productivity and results can take me". it communicates ambition & interest without giving the impression that you'll completely backstab your boss at the first opportunity.

unicorn64 quoth:
not when it is the church. i guess.

that all depends upon how much web traffic your church's site gets. if it's one of those massive megachurches, like joel osteen's, that's a level of traffic many commercial sites would love to have. but if it's like most church sites, it sees a much lower level of traffic--and hence has many fewer issues--than a commercial site. bulding a site requires skills; building a site that handles [volume] requires skills plus experience maybe?

if it's anything like my own church's site, which sees maybe 2 unique visitors/week, that's barely better than a personal site. did you have web traffic numbers?

pmann quoth:
...so, i write this long ass post to say this: don't bullshit on an interview. present yourself in the most positive light possible. but don't misrepresent yourself. be honest about what you know and what you don't know.

the man speaks the truth. lies catch up eventually and are grounds for non-hiring, or dismissal.

pplwatching quoth:
an employee once balked when asked to write a status report, saying "<in my field> i don't need to know how to write". i now insist on a writing sample before any hiring decision to ensure that they can convey their ideas in a concise manner. i have passed over well qualified candidates for lack of writing ability.

preach it! nobody can afford to say "i don't need to know how to write" because if you're that inarticulate, be happy never receiving a promotion, even if your shop isn't as stringent as ppl's.

in my professional life, i often interview tradesmen: generally journeymen HVAC guys or electricians. you better believe we expect these guys to be able to articulate their thoughts coherently.

ed