Finally, a solution (Iraq)

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Fiel a Verdad
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January 10, 2005

El Salvador-style 'death squads' to be deployed by US against Iraq militants

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1433353,00.html

From Roland Watson in Washington


[start quote]
John Negroponte was in Honduras when American money was used to train Contras to fight Nicaragua's Sandinista regime. (AL-RAYA/AP)

THE Pentagon is considering forming hit squads of Kurdish and Shia fighters to target leaders of the Iraqi insurgency in a strategic shift borrowed from the American struggle against left-wing guerrillas in Central America 20 years ago.
Under the so-called “El Salvador option”, Iraqi and American forces would be sent to kill or kidnap insurgency leaders, even in Syria, where some are thought to shelter.

The plans are reported in this week’s Newsweek magazine as part of Pentagon efforts to get US forces in Iraq on to the front foot against an enemy that is apparently getting the better of them.



Iyad Allawi, the interim Iraqi Prime Minister, was said to be one of the most vigorous supporters of the plan.

The Pentagon declined to comment, but one insider told Newsweek: “What everyone agrees is that we can’t just go on as we are. We have to find a way to take the offensive against the insurgents. Right now, we are playing defence. And we are losing.”

Hit squads would be controversial and would probably be kept secret.

The experience of the so-called “death squads” in Central America remains raw for many even now and helped to sully the image of the United States in the region.

Then, the Reagan Administration funded and trained teams of nationalist forces to neutralise Salvadorean rebel leaders and sympathisers. Supporters credit the policy with calming the insurgency, although it left a bitter legacy and stirred anti-American sentiment.

John Negroponte, the US Ambassador in Baghdad, had a front-row seat at the time as Ambassador to Honduras from 1981-85.

Death squads were a brutal feature of Latin American politics of the time. In Argentina in the 1970s and Guatemala in the 1980s, soldiers wore uniform by day but used unmarked cars by night to kidnap and kill those hostile to the regime or their suspected sympathisers.

In the early 1980s President Reagan’s Administration funded and helped to train Nicaraguan contras based in Honduras with the aim of ousting Nicaragua’s Sandinista regime. The Contras were equipped using money from illegal American arms sales to Iran, a scandal that could have toppled Mr Reagan.

It was in El Salvador that the United States trained small units of local forces specifically to target rebels.

The thrust of the Pentagon proposal in Iraq, according to Newsweek, is to follow that model and direct US special forces teams to advise, support and train Kurdish Peshmerga fighters and Shia militiamen to target leaders of the Sunni insurgency.

[...]This week Gary Luck, a retired four-star general, will arrive in Iraq to review American policy in the country, looking particularly at the recruitment and training of Iraqi forces. The key to Washington’s exit strategy is the ability of Iraqi forces to take over security roles. The general has been asked by Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence Secretary, to deliver an “ open-ended” review of how US aims can better be met.

His visit comes after two weeks of increased violence in Iraq in which scores of Iraqis and more than a dozen Americans have been killed in the run-up to the country’s elections.[end quote]
 
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This kind of idea started in vietnam with the phoenix program. I think the mistake being made in Iraq is the United States refuses to see itself as what it is, an invader, an infidel invader, and we therefore refuse to see the insurgency as anything other than a bunch of dead enders. The truth is the insurgency grows with every minute we stay and i can see nothing on the horizon which indicates that will change. The longer this goes on the more and more it feels like a middle eastern version of vietnam.
 
In an asymetric conflict, counter insurgency measures are some of the most effective actions you can take. In Vietnam, some of themost successful actions against the VC were mounted, not by the military, but by indiginous forces armed and trained by the Green Berets in conjunction with the Cia.

As a tactic, it has been around since at least World War II, with the French resistance and the russian Partisan bands. It's quite brutal to today's sensitivities, but arguabley, it's the most effect tactic anyone has against an insurgency.
 
Colleen Thomas said:
In an asymetric conflict, counter insurgency measures are some of the most effective actions you can take. In Vietnam, some of themost successful actions against the VC were mounted, not by the military, but by indiginous forces armed and trained by the Green Berets in conjunction with the Cia.

As a tactic, it has been around since at least World War II, with the French resistance and the russian Partisan bands. It's quite brutal to today's sensitivities, but arguabley, it's the most effect tactic anyone has against an insurgency.

Which must be why the Iraquis are using it against the insurgent Americans?
 
At last. Our own death squads, for a change. Finally, the USA can disprove the notion that "those who can't do, teach."
 
People going to be damn careful bout sayin 'bring the war home' this time. "Bring the death squads home!" Nah, it'll never be popular.
 
cantdog said:
People going to be damn careful bout sayin 'bring the war home' this time. "Bring the death squads home!" Nah, it'll never be popular.

You bring up a good point, though. Aren't death squads traditionally used at home?
 
Somme said:
Which must be why the Iraquis are using it against the insurgent Americans?

No, the insurgents use these tactics beacuse they are the only ones avialable to them. If they had an air force, or heavy artillery or armor, they would use them. They resort to improvised munitons and soveit era weapons beacuse that's what they have. If you think they don't wish they culd kill on the scale the US does, you are being very naive.

It is a simple precept however, that the only tactics that are truly effective against them are the same tactics they use. It was recognized a long time back that to counter small unit tacts by a partisan force you had to use small unit tactics. Trying to police Iraq with heavy armor is about as effective as posting a speed limit and having all the ploce cars without radar guns. Simply put, it isn't effective.
 
shereads said:
At last. Our own death squads, for a change. Finally, the USA can disprove the notion that "those who can't do, teach."

I think someone mentioned the Phoneix program. We have had our own for quite some time. I think death squads is pretty inflamatory, but at the nuts and bolts level, it fits I guess.
 
I like the idea of spraying Sunni vegetable gardens with female hormones better.

---dr.M.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
I like the idea of spraying Sunni vegetable gardens with female hormones better.

---dr.M.

LOL,

Honestly, I like the idea of giving them their country back and letting them rule it in their own way. I know the likely results are a severe theorcracy or a series of strongmen & civil war, but it seems at varriance with me to the idea of freedom to foster a system on a people, even if that system might be better for them in the long run.
 
Colleen Thomas said:
LOL,

Honestly, I like the idea of giving them their country back and letting them rule it in their own way. I know the likely results are a severe theorcracy or a series of strongmen & civil war, but it seems at varriance with me to the idea of freedom to foster a system on a people, even if that system might be better for them in the long run.

You're right, you're right. I think we all know what's probably going to happen, so let's just get it over with and get the hell out. Who knows, though, maybe once they get their country back they'll surprise us.

But in the meantime, I think it would be pretty cool to have some of the Sunnis lose their beards and hear muzzeins calling people to prayer in soprano voice.

---Zoot
 
dr_mabeuse said:
You're right, you're right. I think we all know what's probably going to happen, so let's just get it over with and get the hell out. Who knows, though, maybe once they get their country back they'll surprise us.

But in the meantime, I think it would be pretty cool to have some of the Sunnis lose their beards and hear muzzeins calling people to prayer in soprano voice.

---Zoot

Ya know doc, for someone whose intellect I admire so much, you have a wickedly twisted sense of humor that is just fantastic :)

:rose:
 
Colleen Thomas said:
Ya know doc, for someone whose intellect I admire so much, you have a wickedly twisted sense of humor that is just fantastic :)

:rose:

Ain't it though? :D

:rose: back at you too, darling.

---dr.M.
 
Colleen Thomas said:
LOL,

Honestly, I like the idea of giving them their country back and letting them rule it in their own way. I know the likely results are a severe theorcracy or a series of strongmen & civil war, but it seems at varriance with me to the idea of freedom to foster a system on a people, even if that system might be better for them in the long run.

What if...we surprise them and impose an Islamic theocracy?

:D

While the world is wondering, "WTF?" we can plan next steps.
 
shereads said:
What if...we surprise them and impose an Islamic theocracy?

:D

While the world is wondering, "WTF?" we can plan next steps.

To be honest, imposing an islamic thoercracy isn't a half bad idea. Would be awful hard for the islamisists who are leading the insurgency to refuse to participate wouldn't it?
 
Colleen Thomas said:
To be honest, imposing an islamic thoercracy isn't a half bad idea. Would be awful hard for the islamisists who are leading the insurgency to refuse to participate wouldn't it?

I think they'd have to become atheists and overthrow the theocracy. We'd be in Iran by then.
 
shereads said:
I think they'd have to become atheists and overthrow the theocracy. We'd be in Iran by then.

Iran? Surely you think Syria woul dput up more of a fight than that?
 
Colleen Thomas said:
In an asymetric conflict, counter insurgency measures are some of the most effective actions you can take. In Vietnam, some of themost successful actions against the VC were mounted, not by the military, but by indiginous forces armed and trained by the Green Berets in conjunction with the Cia.

As a tactic, it has been around since at least World War II, with the French resistance and the russian Partisan bands. It's quite brutal to today's sensitivities, but arguabley, it's the most effect tactic anyone has against an insurgency.

You are correct on all counts except that this tactic has been around a lot longer than that. (The Hashishem come to mind.) In fact it was in that area that it became almost an art form.

Cat
The Marne Feline
 
Colleen Thomas said:
Iran? Surely you think Syria woul dput up more of a fight than that?

No, they'd fall as soon as we imposed a regime of their choosing.
 
shereads said:
What if...we surprise them and impose an Islamic theocracy?

:D

While the world is wondering, "WTF?" we can plan next steps.

This sounds great, and I would like to see it happen if for nothing else than the novelty of it. Unfortunately I'm sure they would find some reason to disagree with it because it was imposed by the "Great Satan" and his minions. (Now wouldn't it be too funny if they created a democracy to combat this? Reverse Psychology at it's best.)

Cat
The Marine Feline
 
SeaCat said:
This sounds great, and I would like to see it happen if for nothing else than the novelty of it. Unfortunately I'm sure they would find some reason to disagree with it because it was imposed by the "Great Satan" and his minions. (Now wouldn't it be too funny if they created a democracy to combat this? Reverse Psychology at it's best.)

Cat
The Marine Feline

Exactly. Then we'd impose an Islamic regime on Iran (ours) and the democratic state of Iraq would work underground to cause a revolution there.

Of course, they'd all still hate us for imposing our will. But it would at least be ironic.
 
I say what Colly said word for word but I probably would have sprinkled some obscenities in and some snide side comments about how we can never escape the damn Ares-worshipping.

Which proves yet again why Colly is an infinitely smarter, level-headed, and nicer person than I am.
 
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