Film: "Journey" Mother's abandoning children....

[amicus]

Stumbled across this film this night, watched it maybe because it starred Jason Robards and Meg Tilly, maybe because of the ‘blurb’ about a mother abandoning two children, maybe because it sounded a little personal to me.

I didn’t search a whole lot because it is late, I am tired and a bit befuddled for reasons that are my own. And my key word search: "Film Journey", and several others, turned up very little.

But it appears the film was not well received and I can speculate as to why that is so.

Mothers abandoning children is an issue that we almost dare not explore, but for those who have experienced and undergone such a woman, it can be, and is, a tragedy.

I doubt that many have seen this film or that many will rush out and rent it, I discovered it by happenstance and serendipity, I suppose.

I post this for several reasons: to see if there is anyone who has seen the film and would share reactions; to see what comment my AH cohorts might have, and, to judge from that, if I should send a link to this post to some very dear people to me who have and always will mourn why their mother, in essence, abandoned them.

A larger question arises, that of women who have children and discover they are not suited to be ‘mothers’, know it, live with it, well or badly, or choose not to accept the responsibility. Further…how they might feel if they abandon a child, or children, or give them up for adoption.

Although I have not purposely exposed any bitterness here; in the ‘animal’ world, a sow can give birth to a litter of piglets, eat one, perhaps, smother another, and not notice if one or more are missing, and not be concerned once the rest can fend for themselves.

I think some women might be compared to sows.

What say you?

Amicus…









http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116718/

Plot summary for
Journey (1995) (TV)

Journey and his grandfather Marcus have to come to terms with each other's reactions to the loss when Journey's mother, Min, decides to leave Journey and his sister Cat to be looked after by their grandparents.

#Directed by
Tom McLoughlin



#Writing credits
(WGA)

Patricia MacLachlan (novel)

Patricia MacLachlan (teleplay)

Cast (in credits order) complete, awaiting verification

Jason Robards ... Marcus
 Brenda Fricker ... Lottie
 Max Pomeranc ... Journey

Eliza Dushku ... Cat

Meg Tilly ... Min


~~~~


Perhaps you can discover better informational links that I, but I found a paucity in references to this film which was unusual to me?

ami

 

[glynndah]

I have not seen the film and probably won't, but I can relate to the story on a very personal level. When I was 8, my mother took me away in the middle of the night, leaving 4 younger children behind.

 

[CharleyH]

What say you?

Amicus…

Since I've seen practically everything, I was trying to figure out why this one didn't ring a bell with me, Ami. I looked it up on imdb and said "Ah ha! TV movie of the week and that's why."

Since I have not seen this film, I cannot comment. I did see a poster in the subway today, though. It read "1 in 5 women suffer from post-partum depression."

Anyhoo ... since I get you, I chuckle at your reference to sows and in much the same way that I uncomfortably chuckled at Borat last night. I'm not sure this is a good thing.

I suppose what first comes to my mind is that many fathers abandon their children and society somehow doesn't find this particularly disturbing. I find the double standard just a little curious. Beyond this, I am not a parent.

 

[Nasha]

Don't you think far more men than women are deserving of that sow comparison?

 

[Pure]

humans' abuse of children--and mothers play no small role in this-- is FAR greater than in any animal, i think. there ARE killings ['stepfather', esp.], but these are merciful rather than torturous.

 

[amicus]

I have not seen the film and probably won't, but I can relate to the story on a very personal level. When I was 8, my mother took me away in the middle of the night, leaving 4 younger children behind.

~~~

Thank you Glynndah, I can understand why you probably 'won't' seek out the film, the sadness, I am discovering, never ends for a child and perhaps, according to the film, the mother also.



amicus

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=CharleyH]Since I've seen practically everything, I was trying to figure out why this one didn't ring a bell with me, Ami. I looked it up on imdb and said "Ah ha! TV movie of the week and that's why."

Since I have not seen this film, I cannot comment. I did see a poster in the subway today, though. It read "1 in 5 women suffer from post-partum depression."

Anyhoo ... since I get you, I chuckle at your reference to sows and in much the same way that I uncomfortably chuckled at Borat last night. I'm not sure this is a good thing.

I suppose what first comes to my mind is that many fathers abandon their children and society somehow doesn't find this particularly disturbing. I find the double standard just a little curious. Beyond this, I am not a parent.[/QUOTE]


~~~

Hello again CharlieH, good to hear from you again, and thanks also for the 'TV movie of the week', thing, makes more sense now.

It is most likely my inability to comprehend how a woman who carried a child and gave birth could in any circumstance, go off and leave the child.

The reference to 'sows' was uncalled for I suppose, but as you may suspect, I have some very personal and bitter reflections on the subject and feel fortunate that I did not succumb to an almost overwhelming rage to kill in cold and hot blood.

The 'double standard', between males and females doesn't surprise me at all as it can take just a few moments to create a child and the male can walk away. Even later, a male still has much less a bond to a child than does the mother.

It be a crazy mixed up world out here sometimes.

All the best to you, hope your journey is going well.



amicus

 

[amicus]

Don't you think far more men than women are deserving of that sow comparison?

~~~

Hello Nasha, not sure we have spoken before, welcome to the forum.

And, yes, statistically, I am sure you are correct. As I said in another post, my bitterness and inability to comprehend how a woman could abandon a child provided the impetus for my 'sow' comment; uncalled for in a 'civil' exchange I am sure, but I don't feel very 'civil', about my experiences with such a person.

Thanks...

amicus...

 

[CharleyH]

[/I]

~~~

Hello again CharlieH, good to hear from you again, and thanks also for the 'TV movie of the week', thing, makes more sense now.

It is most likely my inability to comprehend how a woman who carried a child and gave birth could in any circumstance, go off and leave the child.

The reference to 'sows' was uncalled for I suppose, but as you may suspect, I have some very personal and bitter reflections on the subject and feel fortunate that I did not succumb to an almost overwhelming rage to kill in cold and hot blood.

The 'double standard', between males and females doesn't surprise me at all as it can take just a few moments to create a child and the male can walk away. Even later, a male still has much less a bond to a child than does the mother.

It be a crazy mixed up world out here sometimes.

All the best to you, hope your journey is going well.



amicus

I don't buy it, Ami. I think I deserve an answer here on all levels and I do not see you giving one.

Good to hear from you also, though. As always,

 

[bluebell]

Some disorganized thoughts

A larger question arises, that of women who have children and discover they are not suited to be ‘mothers’, know it, live with it, well or badly, or choose not to accept the responsibility. Further…how they might feel if they abandon a child, or children, or give them up for adoption.

All tough questions, and I would say that perhaps many women in those situations could be too scared to acknowledge them.

As humans, we have an inborn tendency to reflect on things and really try to dismantle the why's and how's. But some people (and I have met a few) either cannot do that or just refuse.

When you step into such a painful area (abandonment, bad parenting), it can be too visceral for some to handle. Even thinking about it is too great a cost (understandably).

I'm torn about my own response to this because I know the issue is mothers, specifically, but I also don't think it would be fair to lay everything I say below at the feet of just one parent. So, please know that I am sharing from a dual point of view.
(Also, I am not addressing adoption; good, bad, or otherwise.)

Parenthood is a heavy thing.
No matter how likely you are to be apathetic, ignorant, or unfeeling in acknowledging that fact, it's a complicated and emotional issue because it so drastically affects someone else's entire life, starting from infancy.
Which makes it worse because it's not as if infants can stand up for themselves and say "You're a bad parent and you're fucking everything up. Cut it out or I'll leave."

There are scads of different types of abandonment. All of the things you listed above, Amicus, could be categorized that way, and every way affects the child.
In addition to actual physical abandonment, mothers and fathers who are there, but not there (if you know what I mean) can leave kids feeling vacant and alone.
Even mothers who have kept their children, take almost textbook care of them, and even wanted them a little can still pass on a feeling of abandonment.

One example of that is a main character in Tom Perrotta's book Little Children. For all intents and purposes, Sarah takes care of her daughter, but you can see that she's not actually there for her.
And the kid knows. Most humans know when they're hitting walls and will, accordingly, stop trying to reach out when they're sure to hit one.
Children immediately cut through the bullshit and know when they're getting screwed.
Of course, knowing that and then being able to do something about it are two horses of entirely different colors.

These are people who should know you well and love you most. Unfortunately, that also gives them a lot of power.

Sadly, the emotional ramifications of abandonment-like choices may not even be able to surface until many years later for the parents in question, while the kids are left with bleeding hearts and a seemingly unmanageable load to carry through life.

I'm not sure adults realize just how important their decisions are, especially to young children.
If they are the sort of parents who abdicate in every way, shape, emotion, and form, they will likely forget (or worse, never even considered) that their life is not just their own, and that it matters to more than just themselves.

I'm afraid this post is not terribly cohesive, but these were some of the things knocking around inside.

 

[amicus]

Thank you Bluebell...a wonderful post, a thoughtful one.

There is another film, I should search and provide, I think it is called "The Homecoming", but I have forgotten the quality older woman actress, perhaps Ann Bancroft? About abandoned children, and an estranged grandmother as well.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116550/plotsummary

I have mentioned that this subject is very personal to me and without saying much more, after years and years and tens of thousands of dollars in attorney and court fees, I finally regained custody of my children.

While we all did our best, the damage was done and I am still discovering, as time goes by, now two decades later, that I cannot 'fix' what was done to them or to me, for that matter.

We don't just live with our pain and our memories, it has affected how each of us live our lives, whom we love and whom we trust. So, yes, I think I understand your post and it is quite clear you understood mine and I thank you once again for that.

warm regards...



amicus

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I'm a mother who has abandoned her child. I was forced to... very long story. It has deeply effected me, and the child I abandoned, and it will, forever. We both feel hurt, angry, betrayed, lost, alone, untrusting... the irony is stunning when I look at it, from any angle.

Life forces us to make choices, sometimes, and you can only do the best with the information you have at the time. I hurt her deeply. She hurt me deeply. Can anyone heal from those kinds of wounds?

God, I hope so. I think we were meant to, and I think those kinds of wounds are given, not inflicted. Like gifts. It makes us who we are. As painful as it is, abandonment, and what comes from it, serves to develop something deeper, to push us beyond our perceived limits...

Forgiveness is a gift, as well.

Ami...

 

[amicus]

SelenaKittyn

ami

 

[bluebell]

Thank you Bluebell...a wonderful post, a thoughtful one.

Thank you, Amicus.
(I'll have to look into that movie- I adore Anne Bancroft. I don't know if I'll ever believe that she's gone.)

We don't just live with our pain and our memories, it has affected how each of us live our lives, whom we love and whom we trust. So, yes, I think I understand your post and it is quite clear you understood mine and I thank you once again for that.

I'm a mother who has abandoned her child. I was forced to... very long story. It has deeply effected me, and the child I abandoned, and it will, forever. We both feel hurt, angry, betrayed, lost, alone, untrusting... the irony is stunning when I look at it, from any angle.

Life forces us to make choices, sometimes, and you can only do the best with the information you have at the time. I hurt her deeply. She hurt me deeply. Can anyone heal from those kinds of wounds?

God, I hope so. I think we were meant to, and I think those kinds of wounds are given, not inflicted. Like gifts. It makes us who we are. As painful as it is, abandonment, and what comes from it, serves to develop something deeper, to push us beyond our perceived limits...

Makes me think of a line from an Over the Rhine song, "Pain is our mother, she makes us recognize each other..."

 

[Boxlicker101]

Since I've seen practically everything, I was trying to figure out why this one didn't ring a bell with me, Ami. I looked it up on imdb and said "Ah ha! TV movie of the week and that's why."

Since I have not seen this film, I cannot comment. I did see a poster in the subway today, though. It read "1 in 5 women suffer from post-partum depression."

Anyhoo ... since I get you, I chuckle at your reference to sows and in much the same way that I uncomfortably chuckled at Borat last night. I'm not sure this is a good thing.

I suppose what first comes to my mind is that many fathers abandon their children and society somehow doesn't find this particularly disturbing. I find the double standard just a little curious. Beyond this, I am not a parent.

I would take issue with the comment that society somehow doesn't find this particularly disturbing. Society finds it VERY disturbing, and the father is liable to be tracked down and charged with a crime. Especially if the mother and child are receiving some kind of public assistance. Of course, that is if the mother knows who the father is and complains.

I agree that society finds abandonment by a mother to be much more disturbing. Mothers are supposed to be the main nurturers, and when they fall down on the job, something is wrong. Maybe it shouldn't be like that to such a degree, but it is.

Wasn't Kramer Vs. Kramer about something like this also?

 

[Pure]

two issues:

1) woman "abandons" child *after* [e.g. while ] the child is in the care of the father or her sister, etc. (so they keep it and raise it).

2) woman wraps child in a blanket and leaves it in a secluded spot of a public space (iow it will be found...sometime.

which are you talking Selena. (or something different?)

i think our city just set up something i've heard about in victorian times. until every city has one, i think we should be too hard on moms of babies, who freak out and abuse, etc.

it's a "baby chute". sort of like a 'night deposit' box at the bank or library. the chute is connected to [on the outer wall of] a care facility, in the old days, a nunnery. the woman simply places the baby in a blanket, in the chute. closes it. slooosh. she leaves. no one sees her. the baby is immediately picked up at the inner end of the chute by someone, and the institution assumes responsibility.

[hey, i wonder if there could be a LARGE chute for placing unruly teens?]

 

[BlackShanglan]

Hardly a modern phenomena either. I recall a very interesting forensic show in which they were dealing with the remains of infants who'd been buried centuries earlier and only recently discovered; they were trying to work out why so many infants were buried together in one location. In the process of looking up the city records for the time period, they discovered that in the city of Philadelphia in the 1700's, there were individual days on which as many as half a dozen babies were found abandoned on doorsteps and in streets. Those children had almost no chance of survival, as medical care was almost nonexistent. Thank goodness there are at least better options for physical care now.

But on the topic of the male/female issue - surely the feeling that the mother is the natural primary caregiver and final locus of responsibility for the child might be a reason for males to abandon their offspring with greater frequency and impunity, no? If you're convinced that it's more her responsibility than your own anyway, the decision must appear more attractive.

Of course, I must acknowledge some bias here; both my cousin and his father went through divorces in which they fought for and won custody of their children, and particularly for my uncle, who did it in the early 1960's, this was no easy feat, due largely to the belief that the mother would be the more natural guardian.

Shanglan

 

[angelicminx]

I'm a mother who has abandoned her child. I was forced to... very long story. It has deeply effected me, and the child I abandoned, and it will, forever. We both feel hurt, angry, betrayed, lost, alone, untrusting... the irony is stunning when I look at it, from any angle.

Life forces us to make choices, sometimes, and you can only do the best with the information you have at the time. I hurt her deeply. She hurt me deeply. Can anyone heal from those kinds of wounds?

God, I hope so. I think we were meant to, and I think those kinds of wounds are given, not inflicted. Like gifts. It makes us who we are. As painful as it is, abandonment, and what comes from it, serves to develop something deeper, to push us beyond our perceived limits...

Forgiveness is a gift, as well.

Ami...

 

[angelicminx]

I have a cousin who has given birth to three children. She is not their 'Mother', though she is the one who receives the Mother's Day recognition.

The oldest two are taken care of by her younger sister, and have been since their birth. The boys are 7, 3 and almost 2.

The youngest lives with his father. The 'mother' has seen the youngest child less than 10 times in his entire life, yet she keeps threatening to take the child 750 miles from his father (to the state she's lived in for the last year or so.) The father isn't allowed to authorize some things for the child (it escapes me now what the specifics are) because the 'mother' won't sign the papers for a DNA test proving that he is indeed the father. She doesn't want the child, has stated so on many different occasions. She doesn't want any of the children. She sees them as a pain in the ass, and inconvenient to her life. However, when something doesn't go her way within the family she uses them as a threat to get what she wants. (i.e.: Well then I'll just take the kids and move to... (wherever) )

The seven-year-old knows her as his mother, and is constantly hurt by her. Out of the last 5 opportunities to return home to see her children she has refused 4 times.

I just don't get this. I have to fight for MY child, but she doesn't want hers.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

two issues:

1) woman "abandons" child *after* [e.g. while ] the child is in the care of the father or her sister, etc. (so they keep it and raise it).

2) woman wraps child in a blanket and leaves it in a secluded spot of a public space (iow it will be found...sometime.

which are you talking Selena. (or something different?)

The former... sort of.



*****

Minxie...