Female point of view help

[only_more_so]

A story idea came to me, but I realized it would be best told from the female protagonist's point of view. Not necessarily first person, but the observer would definitely be following her around.

So, I was wondering if some of the ladies on here can describe some of the worst pitfalls that male writers find themselves falling in when trying to write about a woman's life. Also, I am sure there are things that male writers often seem to forget about when writing.

To put further context to my question, the female character in question would be a Lit writer. I am not going to model the character after any particular writer, but I want the character to seem like she could post here and write stories here. So any insights from that perspective would be particularly poignant.

 

[3113]

ASo, I was wondering if some of the ladies on here can describe some of the worst pitfalls that male writers find themselves falling in when trying to write about a woman's life. Also, I am sure there are things that male writers often seem to forget about when writing.

We presume this is erotica. And I'm going to list pitfalls as if the male writer was not a very good writer because most good male writers don't fall into such pits.

1) The first major pitfall of a male writer is physical description--this isn't to say that female writers don't ever fall into this pit also, but few will have the main, female character start out by describing herself as "5'8", with 38 DD" breasts, blond hair, blue eyes and an insatiable appetite for sex.

I think you get the idea from that for the pitfalls. A not-so-good male writer writing erotica is going to write up his sexual fantasy. And that usually includes an ideal woman who will give him ideal sex--i.e., who only wants to please him. Now to be fair, a not-so-good female writer of erotica is going to do the same thing. Create an ideal man who only wants to please her. And therein lie most of your differences.

If you want to sound girly, the woman is more likely to describe her hair, eyes, height (does she find herself annoyingly small or overly tall) rather than breasts. Women just don't mention their breasts except to say, "I was flat," or "I was busty." And even when writing a female character, they will depreciate. Heroines are almost always unappreciative of their beauty.

They are most certainly unappreciative of their breasts. Big breasted women have a love/hate relationship with breasts (they get in the way, it's hard to find bras, clothes don't fit right, etc.), and flat-chested women have a love/hate relationship (should they use push ups, is there something wrong with them, etc.). Once in a while there's a woman who says, "I've beautiful, perky breasts that are just the right size!" but not often. Women are very critical of their looks, and it shows in their writing.

Oh, and most female writers create heroines with hair that is brown or red. Sometime raven black, rarely blond. If they are blond, likely ash blond or white blond.

2) The second major pitfall (and again, this is general, there will be exceptions), is that men when writing sex often focus on the sexual act (let's get the woman on her knees and that penis in her mouth--or in the wet, wet pussy)--rather than foreplay Women *tend* to like to read about romance and foreplay and so will have more of that. Even if they get right to the sex, they're *likely* to write more about the emotions of the characters during the sex, rather than just what is going where.

Those are the primary two that pop immediately to mind. And, once again, they relate to writers who are usually not that good. A good writer, of the calibur of most writers here, won't fall into such pits.

 

[only_more_so]

Thankfully, I think I am a good enough writer not to fall into either of those pitfalls, but I think all writers should be reminded of those.

I was more looking for those sorts of things that crop up in a story that seem to take you out of the story. I don't know, maybe I am just a bit nervous because women genuinely baffle me at times.

In the story, the woman is getting seduced over time. Would she be conscious of the seduction, but be playing along? Would she talk about it with her friends? If it is an online romance, does she imagine what the other person looks like, or is that really not important so much as it being another person. Might she masturbate thinking about a real meeting, or would she it stay imaginary?

Heck, I could write a hundred questions asking a woman about masturbation, since I have never seen it except in pornos or other situations where it is for display purposes instead of personal gratification.

 

[glynndah]

Thankfully, I think I am a good enough writer not to fall into either of those pitfalls, but I think all writers should be reminded of those.

I was more looking for those sorts of things that crop up in a story that seem to take you out of the story. I don't know, maybe I am just a bit nervous because women genuinely baffle me at times.

In the story, the woman is getting seduced over time. Would she be conscious of the seduction, but be playing along? Would she talk about it with her friends? If it is an online romance, does she imagine what the other person looks like, or is that really not important so much as it being another person. Might she masturbate thinking about a real meeting, or would she it stay imaginary?

Heck, I could write a hundred questions asking a woman about masturbation, since I have never seen it except in pornos or other situations where it is for display purposes instead of personal gratification.

Yes. I can see myself doing each of those things.

 

[nici]

Thankfully, I think I am a good enough writer not to fall into either of those pitfalls, but I think all writers should be reminded of those.

I was more looking for those sorts of things that crop up in a story that seem to take you out of the story. I don't know, maybe I am just a bit nervous because women genuinely baffle me at times.

In the story, the woman is getting seduced over time. Would she be conscious of the seduction, but be playing along? Would she talk about it with her friends? If it is an online romance, does she imagine what the other person looks like, or is that really not important so much as it being another person. Might she masturbate thinking about a real meeting, or would she it stay imaginary?

Heck, I could write a hundred questions asking a woman about masturbation, since I have never seen it except in pornos or other situations where it is for display purposes instead of personal gratification.

If you want to write about an online seduction then emotions should be a major part of their interactions and her thoughts.

Also, think about the aspect of her feelings towards being anonym, securer and safer online therefore her behavior more open and less cautious, yet, at the same time morally questioning her being so.

Important is that sex is never “just sex”. There’s always tons of emotions intertwining. They might not necessarily be emotional connections to the seducer, but rather emotions connected to the various aspects of their (sexual) interplay. Also, sexual is often not sexual and not sexual is.

Also, men will always observe the physical far more than we will. We are interested in the physical too, but in combination with the emotional. Specific aspects of behavior will be very, very important.

Instead of thinking more in black and white, think in shades of grays and colors. Nothing is ever simple for us.

 

[glynndah]

We may be fantasizing about him, but it'll be the whole person, not just the "bits".

 

[nici]

We may be fantasizing about him, but it'll be the whole person, not just the "bits".

Oh, I don't know...

If he's got tight abs, a cute butt and a sweet smile... I could think of parts.

Well, just the rest has to fit too.

 

[floweringquince]

I was more looking for those sorts of things that crop up in a story that seem to take you out of the story. I don't know, maybe I am just a bit nervous because women genuinely baffle me at times.

Humans of either sex (and either gender baffle me all the time


Things that drag me out of the narrative and make me wish I could send the obviously male author a big fat freakin' *clue*:


- "strange" feelings down there.

Unless she has been raised in a convent, in a cave, on Antarctica; those feelings are not mysterious to her: she knows just what they are, even if the only thing she knows of to associate them with is the mystery of her wedding-night-to-be.

She may find "those feelings from down there" warm, strong, annoying, shameful, persistent, pleasant, distracting, compelling, subtle, overwhelming, "good", "bad", unwelcome, maddening, relaxing, sexy, or any number of other things -
But they are not "strange."


- "She admired her body's sexy reflection in the mirror."
(Bzzzzzzzt! Sorry! - Thanks for playing.)

I have never, ever, heard of a real live woman unabashedly admiring herself in the mirror.
Women use mirrors to criticize themselves; and to apply make-up and employ other beauty tricks (generally while continuing to criticize themselves).

Any sort of flat out "Looking at her gorgeous body in the mirror was turning her on.", and hell, you might as well just break into the story to announce: "This Was Written By A Male Author."

It'd be a neat authorial trick to depict a woman giving herself her 4,897th critical once-over in the mirror, and use it to describe her favorably:
"She frowned at a few tiny lines she was sure hadn't been there yesterday, as she applied shadow to her round, deep blue eyes... she always lined her lips just inside their natural line and used a soft shade of lipstick to hide what she thought was too much sensuous fullness...she squinted, trying to see if her darned big boobs were beginning to droop already - no, not yet..."


- Talk To Her.

Want to be the Worlds' Greatest Lover? Learn to say, with absolute conviction: "You are a beautiful woman."
Those are the five sexiest words in the English language, especially when said during sex.

If you're not in bed yet, they're a good way to get there. Throw in a few blithely flattering comparisons that leave the other 3 billion other women in the world sobbing in the dust; and I for one will be rubbing up against your body, taking my own clothes off, and spontaneously initiating fellatio within 15 minutes. Say them very convincingly, and I'll be trying to do all three of those at once.


- Foreplay, foreplay, foreplay. An aroused woman's whole body is a sexual organ. I can't be the only person whose BFs have discovered that nibbling on her ear, or neck, or tickling damn near anywhere makes her squirm uncontrollably and apparently quite pleasurably underneath them; but I have yet see it written about.


- When it comes right down to it, I'm a size queen. I like 'em big. But -
If you are indeed so damned big that you bump into my cervix - that *hurts*!
In the context of some serious BDSM, it might fall into the pain-pleasure enjoyability spectrum, but mostly it just unambiguously *hurts*!


- I can't feel you come "squirting like fire hose" in me (on your best day, you squirt more like squeeze bottle of yellow mustard (white-colored 'yellow' mustard, I guess anyway). After you've come, if you're not wearing a condom, everything has suddenly gotten a whole lot wetter, but that's all I can feel.

I can tell you're coming because you groan (and indeed scream, and whimper) as if you are undergoing the worst point of some severe torture, your face contorts like your head's in a hydraulic press, you rear up like a stallion attacking a horsefly, and your hands and arms and legs (and mouth) clench tightly onto anything they happen to be holding. And, if you're big, I can feel your dick swell slightly and convulse inside me.

No man I have ever been with has said anything as articulate as "I'm coming" during orgasm; or managed any consonant at all other the famous "nnnnnnmmmmmm!" combination.

I can tell you've come because you collapse in a heap, dripping sweat everywhere. If you're a testosterone-rich athletic type, you may recover enough within a few minutes to start up again; but for the moment, if the house were on fire, it could burn to the ground around you for all that you would notice or care.

In the story, the woman is getting seduced over time. Would she be conscious of the seduction, but be playing along?

If she were like me, she would spend hours, days, & weeks, in a thrilling agony of "Could it be that he really wants me? Or is he just being nice? Could he flirting with me? He's not trying to seduce me, is he?.... Oh, stop that, you silly self, don't be ridiculous! He just wants you to edit his stuff!"

If, once they've acknowledged the sexual aspect) they exchange pictures, she might think:
"Oh god, he's so sexy in his picture...Not a movie star or anything, no; but that look in in his eyes... Dang it, I should never have sent him my real picture: he'll lose all interest when he sees how fat/skinny, tall/short, pale/dark, busty/flat, etc./etc. I am....

"Hey, he got my picture and he likes it! He says I look sexy and cute! Wow, maybe, just maybe, there could get to be something really worthwhile between... oh, knock it off, you silly self, he just wants to get his rocks off with you!"

"Or could there maybe be the possibility of something serious?...Ya know, if maybe... and maybe.... would I take his name if... "Mrs. John Q. Cyberpal... Mrs. John Q. Cyberpal... oh, forget that stuff, you silly self, he just wants a fuck-buddy!

"Well, hey, but would that be so bad?.."
(and so on until Literotica runs out of server space...

Would she talk about it with her friends?

She would definitely talk about it with her friends (Whaddya *think* women talk about? Football? .
They would probably discuss every scrap of knowledge she has about him, analyzing for what it could possibly mean to the possible relationship:

"So, he lives near, but not with, his parents... Hunh, do you think that means he's depending on them, or that they're able to depend on him?... Or maybe both?.... Or it could just happen to be that that's where he found a house he liked?... Naah."
(actual fact about an actual on-line boyfriend I have actually discussed with an actual female friend

If it is an online romance, does she imagine what the other person looks like, or is that really not important so much as it being another person.

She would try to imagine what he looks like, and what he sounds like. Once she's sexually interested, she would try to imagine what he smells like (when he's recently out of the shower , what his skin might feel like, what his lips and tongue would taste like in a kiss....

(She might be careful not to build her hopes up too high, so as to avoid outstripping reality. Or she might not...

Might she masturbate thinking about a real meeting, or would she it stay imaginary?

Heck, I could write a hundred questions asking a woman about masturbation, since I have never seen it except in pornos or other situations where it is for display purposes instead of personal gratification.

Masturbation is very personal and idiosyncratic, so I can speak only for myself.

(It is probably at least as individual as tastes in food; so bear in mind that the following is written by someone who despises avocados, enjoys okra, and likes both chocolate and ice cream but does not like chocolate ice cream

My masturbatory fantasies involve only strangers, acquaintances, or established lovers; not potential lovers. (Or friends or colleagues - I'd never be able to look 'em in the eye the next day.)

While I might have any number of romantic fantasies about a potential lover, the possible impending reality doesn't allow my fantasy to get to where I need to be for a worthwhile masturbatory fantasy. I guess don't want imagine what he's like in bed in the necessary detail, because I'm too close to figuring out what he *is* like in bed.

(And because, just when the going's getting good, I'm liable to remember some stupid detail that puts the scotch on the whole thing - "Oh, crap, that'll never work! He's left-handed!.... Okay, well, now if it were Viggo Mortensen instead..." (with luck, I will never learn whether Viggo Mortensen is left-handed or not

Once he's an established lover and I know what he's like in bed ("Yeah, he is left-handed; but it sure didn't keep him from being able to do *that*...oh, mmmm..."); then I can either just relive our encounters in memory, or recast him as the hero of all my standard issue fantasies (cowboy, English lord, Pirate, impossibly rich tycoon, Mafia boss, arresting officer, serviceman on leave....)


So, if your character were like me, she might masturbate while thinking about him at the very first, and then after they have become lovers; but not while their relationship is really developing (although she would probably fantasize about him a lot at that stage without masturbating).

OTOH, it takes a good, solid, highly detailed fantasy to work for me in the masturbation department (for instance, the cowboy fantasy often founders on the detail of whether he breaks the action to care for his horse; or whether the horse just grooms, waters, and feeds itself, and then presumably wanders off to work on its novel, because - hey, it's a fantasy , and the whole thing may be completely different for anyone but me.


More than you ever wanted to know, right?

- Quince, the queen of TMI

 

[only_more_so]

More than you ever wanted to know, right?

- Quince, the queen of TMI

Too much information? More like not enough! Like, are you married/attached? That is my not too subtle way of saying thanks for the information. That's the kind of thing I wanted to know.

I might get back to you and beg you to be a beta-reader, once I get down to writing the story.

 

[floweringquince]

Too much information? More like not enough! Like, are you married/attached?

(hunh... ...is he just being nice? ...or could he be flirting with me?
...oh, stop that, you silly self: he just wants you to be his beta-reader!

 

[tanyachrs]

I have never, ever, heard of a real live woman unabashedly admiring herself in the mirror.

I do that. I have a nice figure and if I'm getting ready for a date I enjoy looking at it and thinking about how much he's going to be enjoying it later.

I think the main thing is that women are people and people are different. If you create a character who's a person, the character could be either male or female. Don't stereotype, don't generalize, and you'll have a woman.

 

[3113]

I do that. I have a nice figure and if I'm getting ready for a date I enjoy looking at it and thinking about how much he's going to be enjoying it later.

I think we all do that once in a while. I think what we're talking about is that most women don't do what we find in male-written lit, which is women who admire themselves in a way that sounds like they're a phone sex operator.

We all may, now and then, stand in front of a mirror, ready for a date, and think, "Hey, hey, not bad!" but we don't think, "Wow. I'm so georgeous. I think I'll fondle my 38 DD breasts. Slowly...and pull on my rosy red nipples...."

Yes, we're all people and people are different and there MIGHT be a woman like this--but it's FAR more likely it's a story written by a man, isn't it? And that's what we're discussing here, ways to make sure that the story doesn't appear to be written by a guy.