Feedback for Mayi

Whispersecret

Clandestine Sex-pressionist
Joined
Feb 17, 2000
Posts
3,089
Perky was (rightfully) upset that we hijacked her thread, so I'm posting my feedback for Mayi here.

I sincerely hope that after this feedback from me and from Redwave and whoever else responds to you, that you return the favor.

Wonderful Man
by Mayi

When I look at him
What do I see?
I see a wonderful man
Looking back at me.

When I look at him
What do I see?
I see his smile
Sending warmth through me.

When I look at him
What do I see?
I see his passionate gaze
Following me.

When I look at him
What do I see?
I see his dark brown eyes
Seeking the thoughts within me.

When I look at him
What do I see?
I see the only man
I want to be with me.

When I look at him
What do I see?
I see the passion
That he has for me.

When I look at him
What do I see?
I see my lover
Looking back at me.


Now, maybe it's just me. I'm a teacher and the mother of two kids under the age of 9, so I'm very familiar with children's books. Anyone else ever read BIll Martin Jr. and Eric Carle's Brown Bear, Brown Bear, What Do You See and Polar Bear, Polar Bear, What Do You Hear?

The text goes like this, "Brown bear, brown bear, what do you hear? I see a pink flamingo looking at me. Pink flamingo, pink flamingo, what do you see? I see a yellow lion looking at me." It's a book with the type of repeated text that is appealing to young children, because the repetition helps them to predict what's coming up, and the rhythm is infectious.

I'm probably the only one who got this sing-song feeling from this poem, so I'll stop harping on it.

I read all of your poems, Mayi. You like to repeat words and lines in a way that I'm not sure adds a lot stylewise. In this poem, it seems like fluff. Perhaps you'd have been better off making the title, "What Do I See?" and then cutting all the lines that say, "When I look at him / What do I see?" and focusing on what you see.

The other suggestion I would make is that you choose your words with more care. For example, you talk about his "dark brown eyes." This doesn't tell me much about his eyes really. Take a few minutes to brainstorm some qualities about his eyes that you like. Their depth, their changability, the way they glitter in the dark...anything! Deep? How about a hole in the earth into which you could fall or be planted? Changeable? Maybe you see his emotions and thoughts flash in his eyes like channels on the TV. Are you getting my drift? Make your reader see more than "dark brown."

Go through the whole thing and be more specific. You're pretty vague throughout this poem and as a result it falls a little flat for me. You have to remember that I'm not your lover. Your lover, if you wrote this for him, is in love with you, so everything you write will be read through love-colored glasses. You and your lover have that connection already and he will be eager and willing to read between the lines to see what you meant. Everyone else won't be so forgiving. You'll have to work harder to get your message across to us.
 
WS--

I read all Mayi's poetry the first time. I'm with RED. What was I suppose to say? "Wonderful Man" was more than I wanted to deal with. I thought it was a bad adult version of "Peek-A-Boo". Now, Mayi you know why I resisted commenting.

I sent you four replies. You didn't bother responding. I write to people who return the favor and are courteous enough to say thank you.

I have two kids. I'm not adopting anymore. Someone else may be interested in coddling you, but I'm not.


Peace,

daughter
 
I didn't comment on Perky's thread because that wasn't in keeping with the topic of the thread.

I will here. I don't give feedback on anything unless its specifically asked of me and the writer understands that I say exactly what I think and I never think of the writer's feelings while I'm saying it.

No, WS, you aren't the only one who picked up on the sing-song. Though it put me in mind of Dr. Seuss.
 
are you missinf the point here?

a few words first,
daughter.
You commented on the poem I attributed to myself and Mayi, it was titled A Life Refreshed, and dealt with someone trying to return to narmality after a failed relationship.
mayi sent me some words, I read them,and then wrote the poem, totally different to what she had written.
i credited her as co-author because of this.
A Life refreshed was not one of the two poems savaged by the Uncouth oops sorry Unmasked Poet on the new #1 thread.



What thid lady is asking for is help, guidance, she wants to write beautiful poetry.
What is she receiving, very little, just a major hammering of her work so far.
remember, she has only just started writing poetry, 3 poems so far.Dont keep hammering her on the bad points that you say you see.
tell her what is good, encourage her,make suggestions by all means.
No doubt i have again upset people with this, I seem to be better at that than poetry.
But, there ya go
Take care all
 
pleasureu

Mayi asked for our opinions. If you believe she needs instruction in a specific way, provide it. Whispersecret is a teacher, she didn't hammer Mayi.

I had asked Mayi more than once to meet us halfway. She has made demands in this forum, but we don't have one single post from her supporting any efforts here. Pardon me then for being less than sympathetic and sensitive to her status.

How many times can I say you get what you give? I wrote Mayi, she didn't bother to reply. We instruct in our unique styles. Should I tell you how to write or feel? Don't expect folks to change for the sake of someone's sensibilities.

I was curt. I'm fed up. RED and WS gave her diplomatic, thoughtful, useful help. Take it or reject but stop whining about how it is given.

Mayi, start reading as much poetry as you can. Take notes on what these poets are doing and write down what you like about them. Invest in some writing texts and show up here willing to listen and learn. You won't learn to write in three months or three years. You'll learn when you learn and it will be longer than it will be sooner than you like.

Peace,

daughter
 
To all,

As I stated in the other thread, all I wanted was someone to read it and comment. If you are not a reconzied writer in Lit no one reads you. Without that you do not get votes or further exposure. Thank you all for your comments. I never said I was good, I just wanted to know how bad I was. I have not writen anything in 20 years. Maybe I should stop.

But before I do, once again, THANK YOU all for at least taking the time from your day to read all my crap.

mayi:rose:
 
mayi

please do not give up mayi
it is not crap.
You have something to say dear lady, say it, express yourself
Please
 
that's right, mayi. Don't give up. Take the free tutelage you're receiving, learn and write some more. It's excellent advice. But, jesus, don't stop writing. That's not the point of criticism. It's to make us all better. You might try critiquing some of their poetry. I did that to daughter's poems hells a long time ago, and in doing so, learned more about the writing process. It IS a process.

We don't want you to quit, we want you to evolve. YOU GO GIRL.

you have work to do!!

:heart: perks

ps. If you need help during the process, I'll be glad to give you my two cents worth.
 
mayi said:
To all,

As I stated in the other thread, all I wanted was someone to read it and comment. If you are not a reconzied writer in Lit no one reads you. Without that you do not get votes or further exposure. Thank you all for your comments. I never said I was good, I just wanted to know how bad I was. I have not writen anything in 20 years. Maybe I should stop.

But before I do, once again, THANK YOU all for at least taking the time from your day to read all my crap.

mayi:rose:

I am finding it a little difficult to not be angry.

First of all, I don't think that what you said is true--that only recognized writers get read. I'm certainly a recognized writer here (more in prose than in poetry), and I participate like the Dickens here on the poetry forum. But is my stuff racking up views? Hell no. Are my poems that I post here getting any commentary? Hardly. (Hint, hint, people.)

The truth is, if you participate in this forum, the people with whom you interact are probably going to read your stuff, if only out of curiosity, but probably more out of a willingness to repay a kindness. But that will only account for about 6-10 votes, really, which isn't too much.

Besides, if what you say is true, it's like you're saying this Poetry Upper Class can dictate to the thousands of Literotica visitors each day that they MUSTN'T read So and So's poetry, no matter what! Most of the visitors who come to Literotica a) don't know this poetry board exists, or b) knows about it and couldn't care less.

Now, as for my feedback:

I do, once again, THANK YOU all for at least taking the time from your day to read all my crap.

I did MORE than read your crap.

I took the time to analyze exactly what bothered me about them. If you've never done that before, TRY IT SOMETIME. It's easy to read a poem and know that you don't care for it. It's much harder to figure out WHY and then explain it.

I also took the time to offer several examples and suggestions.

What I got back was this sort of sneering thank you that felt about as sincere as the apologies I make my kids give each other after they've fought.

I don't expect accolades from you. I know what I said is tough to take, but I sure as hell wish you'd at least recognize that I did more than just read your crap.

I made an honest effort to give you what I feel is CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Constructive criticism, to me, is when someone tells you what they honestly think of your work with the intent to help you realize where you might improve. Perhaps I was lax in trying to find something positive to say about your poem. But you know what? Frankly, the attitude that your putting out on this board doesn't make me feel like going out of my way to be nice. All I've seen from you so far is a highly emotional defense of pleasureu's poetry, and then a sort of snotty petition for feedback. What I get from you is this attitude of, "Well, tell me what you think of my poems. If you don't tell me, that won't surprise me, because I KNEW you wouldn't. If you tell me, thanks, I guess."

Maybe you don't mean to come across that way, but THAT'S what's coming across.

So, to summarize, it's not the fact that I'm a member of some poetic aristocracy that makes me not want to comment on your work. It's your surly, chip-on-your-shoulder attitude.
 
Re: are you missinf the point here?


What thid lady is asking for is help, guidance, she wants to write beautiful poetry.
What is she receiving, very little, just a major hammering of her work so far.


I didn't hammer her work. You want to see me hammer something? LOL. I'd be glad to show you if you like. Give me a poem and give me permission to hammer, then you'll see exactly how much I hold back. I'll even give you the regular version (with tact) and the no-holds-barred version (what's inside my head that no one ever hears.)

What you saw was a direct honest critique, with suggestions. I'll admit it was without my usual positive slant. I usually try to find at least one thing that I liked. But as you will have read in my post above, I just didn't feel like it. HOWEVER, I certainly didn't hammer her. Christ.

remember, she has only just started writing poetry, 3 poems so far.

I must have missed where someone said she was a beginner. I'm a beginner too. I have only written about a dozen poems in my life with little feedback except my own brain. Not much has changed in that respect.

Dont keep hammering her on the bad points that you say you see.tell her what is good, encourage her,make suggestions by all means.

"You say you see..." Look, I can only point out weakness that I see. I could be wrong. I don't know that much about poetry. But the bottom line is that a writer doesn't have to accept EVERYTHING someone says as GOSPEL. If someone says to me, "WHisper, your character Rockwell wasn't aggressive enough." I will blow them off. He was as aggressive as I wanted him to be. When you're an artist and someone tells you what they think, YOU have to decide what you accept and what you will ignore, based on your own view of your own work.

And if we only tell a person what is good and to encourage them, then they will continue to write at the same exact level, probably never gaining any insight into what's bad about their work.

I made suggestions. I'm always willing to enter a dialogue with Mayi and anyone else about what I've said about their poetry. Judo and I discussed her sonnet. Vailyn and Wicked Eve worked out some kinks in one of Eve's things. THAT'S how we learn from each other.

UP said some stuff about my sonnet. I asked him questions because I didn't understand what he meant. He never answered me. To this day I can't fix that sonnet, because I can't understand what I did wrong. If he ever gets the time to further explain what he meant, then I'll be able to learn something about what I did wrong.

My point is, you can't just say good stuff. No one learns from that. You can't just necessarily say bad stuff either unless the person understands what you meant. A critique includes the good and the bad and sometimes it sucks to hear it. Welcome to real life.
 
A child is crying because his teacher doesn't like the way he writes his letters. They're difficult to read and they wander across the page. The teacher gave the child some exercises to do to help him learn to control the pencil, but they're time consuming and don't have anything to do with writing letters. The child's mother calls the teacher and gives her a piece of her mind. He's just a child, he hasn't been writing for very long and he should be encouraged, not criticized. He's doing great for a beginner and the teacher should recognize that he's saying something with his letters and expressing himself. After all, everyone's handwriting is different. The teacher, already busy with the large number of students she teaches and their problems, doesn't have time or the inclination for parents to lecture her on how to do her job. So she quits critiquing this childs writing and offering advice on how to improve. The child moves on to another grade. His writing hasn't changed and he is even more frustrated because no one likes to read what he writes. His teacher gives him extra homework to learn to write. The mother calls the new teacher, who has less patience with a child that should have writing that stays between the lines, and gives her a lecture on encouraging children. He's trying his best. He should be rewarded for trying, not criticized for not doing it as well as the honor students in the class. Like the previous teacher, this one gives up, too. Eventually the child grows up, but his writing never grows with him. The encouragement from his loved ones has him believing that his writing is wonderful just as it is and he can't understand why strangers never want to see it or complain about it.

The end.
 
I'm sorry guys I started to post a reply yesterday and the site kicked me off. So I will try this again.

Whispersecret,
I am not upset by what you or anyone else has written. You all did what I asked you to do, read and comment on my work. You must understand what I do for a living and that my work is up for review by more people in a day then will ever visit this site. I have my answers now and will think about writing more. At this time I need to tend to personal family matters and take time to think about what is next for me. My comment to the crap I have written is acurate, it is not good and I wanted to know how bad it was, now I have an idea. Please Whispersecret, don't think I was mad or taken back, I just wanted answers. Thank you all, and now may this thread die, or be a sounding board for other begining writers to look for help in the way I asked.

mayi:rose:
 
We're cool then, Mayi.

Hear that, pleasureu? You can stop frothing at the mouth now.
 
OKAY kids.........stop fighting.......it is not worth it.

mayi:rose:
 
okay, everyone, is all forgiven and forgotten.......please.

mayi:rose:
 
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