Feeback wanted on "The Experiment"

[dr_mabeuse]

Depression and despair.

I just got a new story published ("The Experiment Parts 1 & 2")and thought it was the best thing I'd done so far, or at least the most interesting. But now I read it and it reads like crap to me.

I would really appreciate it if people would go check this out and just read till they lose interest or have had enough and let me know where that happened and, if possible, why.

I'm really tired of writing stuff that seems good at the time and then turns out to be crap.

Here's the link as best as I can paste it. {If anyone knows a better way of pasting links I'd like to know that too.)

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=69237

I'm going to turn on the TV and watch reruns of Family Feud.

---dr.M.

 

[sirhugs]

what makes Family Feud timeless is how quickly time passes- its perfect mindless entertainment. No coomittment , and at the end, the half hour is gone- which , if you're watching the Feud, is likely all you wanted to accomplish( unless you wanted to see if the censor when the busty daughter's boobs bounce out of her blouse).

why am I mentioning this? Because it contrasts with how your story stars. I didn't get bored, I never felt inviolved or drawn in. The gorgeous detail drowned me in the first two paragraopghs, then continued further on. Which is too bad, because it was a cute story. I don't have tiome to analyze throughly now, but a few points:

If you had started with the line " Miss Alexander", and dropped the stage setting down, it would be an attention grabber. Then tighten up the descriptive parts. Half the adjectives would do.

The colors and fabrics were rich but unobtrusive, the furniture seemed to good to use, and the art on the walls complimentied the mood perfectly, evoking just the right level of interest and appreciation from her as she strolled about, trying to appear at home, as if this kind of wealth were nothing new to her.

By my count , this sentence has 6 phrases- at least 3 more than ideal. In addition to just eliminating some of the richness, try it with a period after "unobtrubsive". Then, after "use", "perfectly"...

Miss Liu took out the invitation and glanced at the outside, then opened it and withdrew the five fifty-dollar bills. Or rather, the five fragments of fifty-dollar bills, for each bill had been cut neatly in two so as to be worthless without its missing half.

This could be tightened as in " Miss Liu wihtdrew five fifty dolars bills, each cut in half so as to be worthless without the matching half."

Your dialogue is nice and crisp, and helps move the story. Perhaps you could do more dialogue.

Even there , though, your story unfolds slowly. The dialogue is too realistic. You might eliminate some of the "hello"s, to tighten the story.

Without tightness, there is no tension. without tension, no one at Lit is likely to last til the sex. Even the "more literature than erotic" readers want drama. Maybe reverse the timeline, like in a TV show or movie, to create tension before the opening credits?

I admire the effort put into your plot. It outshines most at Lit, especially my own. I think it has lots of potential. I also admire your desire to improve. I hope my comments help.

 

[PaulX35]

Yeah!

Dr,

I just read it. And I loved that alienating atmosphere of that guy behind the screen, the lady left totally unaware of the purpose of this whole situation. Good bit of suspense too, keeping one eager to read on.

In terms of credibility of the storyline, I would personally supply a few hints in advance, making it less a total surprise that Zoe is suddenly starting to provoke and masturbate. Make sure the character showing in the first part is consistent with the second. Your readers are drawn into a somewhat fantastic setting, so they -I did - need a few strings to hold on too. And credibility of your main character is their main source when reading on.

I would also space less, making the story less fragmented to read. I'm used to spacing quite a lot myself, and some people don't space enough, but recent good feedback has convinced me there is a certain strength in careful paragraphing and careful use of spacing, as it tires the reader, also in direct speech.

Just one minor turn off, but that's a personal thing. I don't find the word "vagina" thrilling at all, on the contray: it keeps reminding me of biology lessons.

Straight 5 though; you must let me know when the next chapter is on

 

[kristydoll]

I quite enjoyed your story and didn't think it was crap at all (boy, that word is flying around a lot lately).

The plot is good - the characters (especially the Doctor) leave you wanting to learn more about them. One point though - it was almost a stretch from her initial character of being so concerned to fully giving him a good "show". But I do think you made it work.

The only other thing - and this was stated before - is it progressed a little slow for me. Even though the dialogue was written well, I don't think you needed it all in there.

On the whole, it kept my interest and would read more.

Good job!

kristy

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Thanks!

Thanks a lot for your feedback. Everything you pointed out is true and extremely useful, and I do appreciate it I hope to reply inmore detail after I get some more responses.

One thing I do want to mention though is Paul's comment about "vagina". I don't like the word either. It must be one of the most un-erotic sounding words around. But how do you work around it (no jokes here, please)? "Pussy" is overused and has a "dirty" connotation. ("The Doctor examined her pussy closely"? I don't think so) and all the other words are more or less derogatory (cunt, snatch, twat, box etc.) "Womanhood" is out, so I use "sex" a lot but i still can't get used to "she played with her sex" (as if she goes from female to male and back again)

I think we should offer a reward for a good vagina synonym that has the same level of respect as "cock" does for the penis.

---dr.M.

 

[Just_John1]

The experiment

Hey Doc,

I'll start with just a few nitpicks.

"It wasn't far, but for all the connection she felt with it it had might as well be on the moon." (seemed a little awkward to me.)

Your description of the room was awsome! It gave the general feeling of the room but left enough to the imagination that I could actually see the room in my mind's eye. Great description paragraph.

Ditto on your description of Zoe.

self-consciousness (should be self-conscious)

He said nothing for a time, but she (could?) feel him sitting in the shadows looking at her, and she began to grow uneasy.

A few minor typos but nothing to distract from the story. I only noticed maybe two or three of them.

You write quite well, you are descriptive, creating a mood as opposed to telling us a detailed description. It gives the reader a chance to get involved in the story and interpret it in a manner they can see. I thought the concept of the story was very intriguing and I had gotten involved in the main character, I wanted to find out what happens to her.

I thought the intro was a little too long as well. You created her hesitancy (sp?) very well but I thought it was a little over done. I found myself thinking 'ok ok get on with it' but it only lasted a moment or two.

You desriptions of what she was feeling and the thoughts going through her head were great. I felt that it was all believable (although I personally don't know any women that would do what she did). I'm not sure how realistic it was but I had gotten so interested in the main character that I was willing to suspend disbelief for a while. I think that is the true sign of a good story. This was also one of the better descriptions of female masturbation by a male author I've read in some time.

All in all a very entertaining well written story. I really enjoyed it. Now I'll have to go read more of your work, I enjoyed your writing style. Not the "crap" that you advertised it was at all. Thanks for drawing my attention to it.

JJ1

 

[Whispersecret]

If you're consistently thinking it's crap later, then wait a while after you finish the story. A couple of weeks, maybe. Then, look at it again.

Then again, maybe it's not the time issue at all. Maybe it's just that guerilla insecurity that attacks us all once we hit the "send" button to submit a story.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Replies to comments

So what I gather from the comments is:

(1) The story starts slow. I can't argue with that. It occurs to me now that all the things Miss Liu tells Zoe the Dr might have just as easily have said, and he would have said them in the more interesting atmosphere of the darkened interview room. I think that would have been a pretty grabby start to the story too, having her sitting in the dark trying to figure out what is going on.

(2) Adjectival overdose? I don't know. I do like opening a story with a mood rather than immediate action. I don't think I described this mood very well though. Whatever else it might be, the opening paragraphs are clumsy and awkward. I did want to paint a picture of Zoe cut off from the reality she knew, insulated by an aura of great wealth, where the normal rules didn't apply. I could have done it better. I actually reworked the opening a number of times. That might be why it's so awkward.

(3) Too much detail. Guilty as charged. I really don't think I had to include stuff about possible legal contracts. I just over-wrote.
On the other hand, I was really concerned with how someone would react in her place. I know she wouldn't just jump at the chance to take part in something as suspicious as the experiment unless she were a lot wilder than Zoe is. How a character deals with the bizarre is always tough for me to write. It's much more easily handled in first person than third. Padding out this scene with detail and reluctance on Zoe's part was an attempt to make it more real. Didn't want to get into internal monologues.

(4) Believability of Zoe's actions. This is always tough call. I was convinced that she didn't go out of character, but that's not the same as convincing the reader. I thought I handled it pretty slickly by having her use her humiliation and her sex aggresively against the doctor. "Here: you want to see so much, then look at this you SOB!" but maybe not. And then again, she's supposed to be shocked at her own behavior as well.

The rest of the things pointed out were mainly stylistic, I think. Sirhugs, I have never been accused for having dialog that was too real! But I know what you mean. It needs editing down.
And Paul, I aslo know what you mean about the paragraphing. The thing is, I've been working to use more paragraphing and getting more white space into my stories. I thought they were easier to read like that, more interesting to the eyes. But maybe I've gone too far. I've got a lot of one-line & two-line paragraphs in there.
Spelling errors and typos are a nuisance and I apologize for those I didn't catch, but they don't bother me much. I know how to fix those.

Anyhow, I thank you all again for your comments. I'llpost the next part soon (after proofing), and I've already started making some of the changes, so we'll see how it goes.

Thank you again,
---dr.M.

 

[HomerPindar]

Well, happy to see you don't approach prose writers the same way you do poets

First thing I noted, you describe things as being rich.... show, don't tell. "muted sense of wealth" & "fabrics were rich but unabtrussive" is telling us what you mean. show us. The carpets were Orientals, the furniture was Victorian, and the whole room was recently photographed for an upcoming edition of interior design... or something like that. I really don't know what furniture is there, even though I get the idea of what the room should look like...

Nice dialogue, crisp, professional, and hence, believably setting up the business transaction that's taking place. It does go on for a bit though, and I suppose readers may be a bit jaded in thier selections. With sex everywhere, folks tend to pass on actual plot and story development. The whole first chapter is set-up. As far as pacing goes, this explination of the whole experiment could be done in thoughts, or flash backs, after Zoe agrees.

As a sociologist, I'm curious to know if you have any actual scientific method in mind behind this story, or if the presumption of scientific method is nothing more than a means for a story. In other words, could these events actually be used to study someone, or only as events for erotic interaction?

HomerPindar

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Would I tell

Now do you really think I would tell you at this point what's going on behind the experiment?
All I can say is that if you write up a grant proposal to actually do this study, I want to be in on it.
And I think I've learned my lesson concerning poets.

Thanks for the feedback. I do appreciate it.
Iknow the business about showing rather than telling, but what I was trying to do was set a mood rather than a scene, if you know what I mean. I didn't want to have to describe the decor as Swedish Modern or whatever, and didn't want to get into naming artists and all that. I don't think I did it very well, but i think it can be done.
There was a French author popular some time ago in the academy named Alain Robbe-Grillet (sp?) who made a career out of showing you everything and telling you nothing. And he's absolutely impossible to read. His description of the room would no doubt have taken thirty pages and would describe each bit of furniture, each carpet, the texture of the walls, the dents in the carpet left by Zoe's shoes, &c &c. Reductio ad absurdum I know, but still...
But I do value your criticism. And it's better to value it than it is to have to risk injury from it.
I'm a chemist by trade. We'll have to see how our experimental designs and parameter selections compare.

---dr.M.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Homer: Addendum

I forgot. I wanted to add something about using flashbacks to explain Zoe's recruitment.
Mainly it's this: I don't like using flashbacks and I'm trying to quit. Maybe I just don't know how to use them gracefully, but I've noticed that the authors I admire rarely use them, and I don't seem to be able to use them without it seeming very gimmicky to me.

I'll admit that the opening of the story takes too long. But I've been criticised in my other stories for writing mere strokers with no plot whatsoever.

Oh, and excuse the rash of smileys at the bottom of the last post. Something happened.

---dr.M.

 

[weed]

Hi, Dr.

I like your story. You could trim down and refine the beginning a bit but it does a good job setting the stage. I think I like it more than I would flashbacks or covering that ground in the interview. It adds to the suspense.

I don't find the dialogue too real myself. It's believable. If anything I might add a note here and there leading up to and as she starts her masturbation to give more insight as to the drama she undergoing in her mind. It would draw out the action a little as well.

Over all good writing and a scenario that I find personally appealling. I was ready to go on to Ch. 3.

And....what's wrong with womanhood for 'vagina' once in a while?

You're right pussy can be over used but has it's place especially in dialogue as do the more derogatory terms occasionally.

I like to use description when I'm running out of terms....i.e. the warm, wet place between her thighs, where moisture oozed out of her, between her swollen lips or the home of her arousal.

 

[peachykeen]

hi dr m. I am a bit sleepy and therefore not in a very sharp frame of mind, so I won't go read this now but I'll try to get back to you soon