Fantasy vs. Reality

Jigs

Experienced
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Posts
90
This week I received the following two feedbacks in the same batch of e-mail.

Feedback # 1 seemed to like my story 'Once a wife, now a teenagers slut':
“A Great story I hope you continue as I always look for updates. Thanks KEV”

Feedback # 2 was a good deal less complementary about the same story:
"get real this couple is real plastic ... give the readers a break and either write about how a real couple handles punks like these two teenage skanks or put this story in the rubbish bin "

Certainly, 'different strokes for different folks' applies. I can understand that, but there is an interesting theme here I have seen before.

Most of my stories are on a D/s theme, and many include a husband who waffles indecisively about what to do about losing his wife to a dominant lover. A number of my readers, almost always anonymous (but who I suspect are uniformly male) take extreme offense at the possibility that any man would be such a wimp. Their feedback usually suggests my story should end with the cuckolded husband breaking both legs (or perhaps the skull) of his wife's lover with a baseball bat.

Actually, as an old macho jock myself, I understand that reaction. For a lot of men, including myself, John Wayne is the model of the 'real man.', and anything less is an insult to our masculinity. I remember being disgusted with Hamlet when I was exposed to him for the first time in high school: I thought, “Jesus, what a sissy! Why not just go kill the son of a bitch?" I suspect my critic who found my wimp of a husband to be "plastic" didn't think much of Shakespeare's Danish Prince either.

At the same time, my macho aside, I am a teller of tall tales. It seems to me that my critic has overlooked a couple of important points.

First, tall tales are always fantasy, all of them, including those that feature John Wayne. As a writer, I plead guilty to being an amateur hack. I will accept as true that my characters are 'plastic'. If I was any good at this, I probably would be getting paid. At the same time, however, what else should be expected of a fantasy but a caricature of real life?

Second, a tall tale is what it is..., TALL. "Once a wife..." is a story about a submissive woman who becomes the sex slave of a young neighbor who also traps the husband into a situation where both husband and wife are subject to blackmail. I suspect that doesn't happen very often in real life, if at all. I would have thought that most readers would not expect reality in such a plot, and that any who did would have abandoned the story before finishing the first page of Chapter 1. My critic must be even dumber than I am, or he wouldn't have wasted his time reading all way to chapter 3. On the other hand, if he didn't read chapters 1 and 2, perhaps that's why he thought the characters were 'plastic'.

Third, as I have mentioned earlier, the indecision (cowardice?) of my husband does not itself make him more ‘plastic’ than Hamlet, (although I will certainly agree that the great bard presented his character with more skill than I did mine.) The fault, if any, is neither in the character nor the situation, and if my husband is less ‘real’ than Hamlet, what is a reader entitled to expect for free on the Internet? Still, I plead guilty as charged. Nevertheless, if I have learned anything in my many years, it is that I am not Shakespeare or even Hemingway, but then unlike my critic, I have also begun to suspect that I am not John Wayne either. So few of us are.

What do the rest of you authors of sexual fantasies (and dirty stories) think?






 
Jigs said:
Nevertheless, if I have learned anything in my many years, it is that I am not Shakespeare or even Hemingway, but then unlike my critic, I have also begun to suspect that I am not John Wayne either. So few of us are.
Dear Jigs,
It doesn't bother me that I'm not like S, H, or JW. I'm testicularly underendowed.
MG
Ps. Besides, I'm too short.
Pps. That doesn't stop me from being a fair writer of smut.
 
I've written two Loving Wives stories and have gotten similar feedback. Evidently John Wayne (or maybe Jack Ryan nowdays) is firmly embedded in the male mind.

I create plots from whole cloth, fortunately for my marriage, but if the statistics I've read about adultery are true, there aren't very many John Waynes out there. I always attribute these emails to teenagers who don't have much RL experience.

When writing these stories, I remember the comment from Herodotus writing about the Trojan War. He said that the Trojans couldn't understand what the fuss was about. It wasn't Paris's fault that Helen was a slut (or something to that effect).
 
Ha

I think you're always going to get the readers who can't tell fact from fiction, fantasy from reality.

Take both of these items of feedback as a compliment friend, both read your tale all the way through, and both believed it to be true it was obviously that well written.
Their reactions were different to each other, but they still both got into the story.

John Wayne never existed in the real world did he, shame but there, macho man is few and far between.
Unreasonable possessive rage man is very common of course.

God knows what they're going to make of my next blurb along these lines, hehe!! deliberately ott.
 
Re: Ha

pop_54 said:
John Wayne never existed in the real world did he, shame but there, macho man is few and far between.
Unreasonable possessive rage man is very common of course.


And let us not forget his first name was really Marion.

Jayne
 
Jigs-
Some joker is going to find fault even if you write a completely accurate autobiography. Hell, anyone who states that a character could not or would not act a certain way, any way, just shows that he hasn't seen very much of life. I was concerned that a story of mine was unrealistic, then had two women send feedback saying that they had personally experienced a very similar situation. Forget the joker; he may be just that, a joker.

AA
 
Personally, I like negative feedback, but you always need to interpret it. There probably are ways in which your story could have been made more believable. But by the same token, the critic who wrote that note would probably not believe it no matter what. In my life there have been many, many things which I could write exactly as they happened and nobody would believe they happened.

It is nice to have solid stories, but not always necessary. Take for example The Matrix: Overall a pretty good flick with lots of opportunity for contemplation. However if somebody was giving me the movie pitch and said, "because there's no sunlight, machines use people for energy generation" I'd slap them upside the head and say, "You idiot, what about nuclear, geothermal, and tidal energy?" While that was a significantly stupid factor, I was able to allow it and suspend my disbelief for the remainder of the story, and I enjoyed it.

OC
PS. same not true for M2
 
Reality VS Fiction...

Truth be told, reality is stranger than fiction. As an author I accept that precept, and define my own reality in each piece of fictional work that I present to the general public. I do it by showing them, not telling them, and that's the real secret of story telling. Do I care what critics say about my work? If they approach the critique in a positive manner, irrigardless of whether it hurts my pride or not then I appreciate their taking the time, and effort on my behalf. If the critique is given in a negative context I have to disect what they are really telling me, and usually it's that my story has effected their thought processes, and that too is good feedback. If all they want to do is line up a one night stand, then anything they've said is considered pure BS.

DS
 
It's funny ... stuff happens in reality that an author might have a hard time getting away with in fiction.

I was watching one of those cop-recreation shows, and the perp was in a pitched gun battle with about four cops while having a K-9 unit chewing on his leg, and yet the perp didn't hit anything. As it turned out, the reason for this was that one of the cop-fired first shots severed the perp's trigger finger. So he was waving the gun, probably _thought_ he was blasting away, with all the other gunfire, who'd have known? But I swear, if I'd read that in a book, I would have scoffed my head off!

Back to the original topic, though -- heck, my hubby's an indecisive waffler in real life. So I wouldn't have found it hard to believe at all ;)

What I try for (and admittedly don't always achieve) isn't so much 'realism' but 'plausibility.' If it makes sense in the course and context of the story, I don't mind if it's realistic or not.

Sabledrake
 
Jigs,

Well you're a master in the genre(s) so I wouldn't really trouble yourself. But since you probably aren't troubled, but want to shoot the shit....

I'd say the 'knock em dead' critics of the wimp husband stories are not hip to the genre. It's a formula that gets some people includin myself off. Are there husbands like this; well as a number of posters have said, the truth is that there are awfully weird people out there, and enjoying your wife getting fucked is probably a *mild* case of weirdness compared to other forms.

A porn story is fantasy material that's written to a formula, just like harlequins are. The subgenres each have their rules, and 'loving wives' has the rule that hubby doesn't murder the fucker of his wife (which occasionally happens in North Am). The fantasy further specifies that the wife really wants to fuck strangers by the boatload, and comes to them, i.e, can and wants to carry out hubby's fantasy. Again, occasionally true IRL, but not all that common.

Here's a related experience re 'rules'. I told a story in incest where there was a transient male homosexual forced encounter.
Teen made Mom's friend blow his male friend. Much outrage since the consumers want incest and fucking. Such an episode violates the rules of the subgenre, that everything re males must be straight.

J.
 
What I find frustrating is when negative feedback doesn't have a reply email attached. Nine times out of ten, I'd like to THANK a person who sends constructive criticism.... but it's a rare, rare thing indeed.

Critics don't mind sending a reply address if they've got positive things to say. But what's with the cowardice of not offering a venue for response to the bad news? I mean, cripes, we're Internet writers, not fucking Edward R. Murrow! And if a person's negative feedback is legit, why not open a dialogue about it? Why slice into a writer's work without offering the benefit of growth and full understanding about what was done wrong with the story?

Instead, we're left (a lot of the time) with things like, "This sucks. It doesn't seem real at all." or even more absurd, "I see where you're headed with this story and I fucking hate it. I used to like your stories but now I feel cheated."

Bleh.
 
"Master of the genre." Why Pure, what a very nice thing to say! Thank you!

You are absolutely right though, us boys sometimes find it hard to deal with our masculinity. Our mommas may have raised us to be gentlemen, but as I said earlier, our daddies and peers expect us to be John Wayne. It is not an easy standard to live to, and as a result we have a lot of ambiguities.

Speaking of ambiguities, where would I find that story you mentioned about the teen and his mother's boyfriend?
 
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