Fantasy vs. Reality in stories?

[JamesSD]

Or, how much realism is too much? In erotica, is it ok to suspend the reader's belief a little for the sake of eroticism?

There's no easy answer to this issue, and I think every reader will have their own preferences. Lately I've been butting up a little against the whole "is this realistic?" in my erotic writing, followed by "should I even worry?"

My stories slant heavily towards feasible but improbable. I write mostly MF erotic couplings and MFF threesome stories. The women in my stories are far more bisexual and far less jealous of sharing a man with another woman than most real women would be. My characters, like the residents of Lake Wobegon, are as a whole quite above average in the looks department. No one has any STDs, no pregnancy scares, no dryness issues, people are rarely too tired/cranky/sick/bloated for sex.

The women in my stories tend to be more sex driven and less relationship driven than most women I've encountered in my life have been. One Night stands are downright commonplace in my story universe, and threesomes and female bisexuality, while interesting, are hardly taboo.

Basically, my stories COULD happen in the real world, but most would take the alignment of a series of moderately probable to only slightly probable events to actually happen. At some level this concerns me. Yet, on another level, I don't want erotic stories to focus on mundane, unsexy details of life.

As a reader, I know that I often prefer slightly less realistic stories. The best comparison I can make is to mainstream cinema. The actors are more attractive than "normal" people, speak more clearly and more cleverly, and many movie plots rely on coincidental or fortuitous events to make the plot work. Yet, many of these movies are enjoyable. Is erotic fiction any different?

Avoiding a "stroke vs. story" question (I personally like Stroke, but with a story), how much realism is ideal? How off-putting do you think it is to have characters who are uninhibited, whose dialog, while clear, isn't totally natural? In your erotica, do you actually want details that increase realism, but might ruin the erotic mood of a scene? Examples would be things like a man noticing a pimple on his partner's ass while he does them from behind, a mildly funky body odor, or two people who screw more like amateurs than experts.

(I didn't find any other threads on this subject, I apologize if there is one and I just missed it with my search terms)

Opinons?

 

[starrkers]

Guess it depends on the reason you're writing this stuff.
The average reader (I think) isn't interested it realism - they live that. They seek fantasy here.
One of my best received stories, From Helen With Love, is based in reality - a slightly jaded couple having fun while the kids are at grandma's. What they get up to is not real...well, it could be, but is unlikely to be. A weekend of sex - a delightful fantasy for most couples. There's always something gets in the way.

 

[Fallenfromgrace]

For me i can't seem to get my head around something totally fantastical. It can be argued that my writing is almost mundane in its details but at the end of the day i'm writting for me and if someone else can enjoy my musings then its a bonus.

I like a range of reading material- from stroke to detailed plots. But i tend to write in the context of an already established FF relationship- and the story is about their lives NOT just their sex lives. I've read stories that are very much detailed with some underlying plot- wonderfully written but the whole series is about their sexual awakening. I don't enjoy that as much as 3 chapters of 'relationship' and interaction before any hint of sex.

I know this is an erotic site by nature, but it is also a writting site- of course these are coupled, but what i mean is that it still allows for expansion.

but that's just me, it's how i tend to write. I'm working on a completely different piece as well that is neither erotic nor story telling as such, and i hope it works out well.

Like i said, i can do with a bit'o'stroke every now and then

I think there's a difference between talking about a couple's interaction- how they move around each other, talk to each other, smile etc and the mundane 'she removed the dishes from the dishwasher as her partner looked on.''

The little interactions for me make the story- really get me to know the character.

 

[S-Des]

This is a very category-based question. In LW, the readers are sticklers for detail. If you suggest something that's not realistic, they'll tear you to shreds over it.

For example, there is a very popular Romance story (3 Chapters) called Impersonating Brianne. All three chapters have been on the top of the top list since it came out. It's about a man who hires a call girl to be his date for a weekend convention. Turns out, his wife died and the call girl looks very much like her, so it's emotional for him, plus he needs someone attractive to help distract the sellers he's trying to get the best deal from. It's a very nicely written story with a warm romance and some very hot sex scenes.

It also made me laugh out loud several times at some of the silly leaps the author took to make the story work. Most aggregious was that she went on the internet a couple of afternoons while he was at the convention and learned enough about the restaraunt business to then save him tens of thousands of dollars, outsmarting the salesman (while they were busy staring at her breasts). Anyone who's owned a business knows it's far too complicated to learn off the net in a couple of afternoons (not to mention salesmen who make their living off of tough negotiations wouldn't be so easily swindled), but there wasn't a single complaint among the PCs. I guarantee that it would have been howled at in LW for being a contrived plot leap, used just to make the story work. Readers in some categories will overlook things in the name of Romance (or hot sex). Other categories have a more demanding crowd. You need to know your audience, or be prepared to deal with complaints that are surprising to you.

 

[cantdog]

S-Des has an acute and penetrating argument, here.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

My Over The Sink stories are filled with leaps of faith by the reader. The opening scene of the first story is technically a rape, but if you make that leap of faith it's just surprise sex. It doesn't get much better as the story progresses either.

Hell, the first story I submitted is a ghost story. Huge leap of faith there, believing in ghosts or not.

And my tentacle stories.

Hell, even Working out has a few positions that I don't think would physically work.

 

[Weird Harold]

As a reader, I know that I often prefer slightly less realistic stories. The best comparison I can make is to mainstream cinema. The actors are more attractive than "normal" people, speak more clearly and more cleverly, and many movie plots rely on coincidental or fortuitous events to make the plot work. Yet, many of these movies are enjoyable. Is erotic fiction any different?

I think most people prefer "slightly less realistic" stories.

But on the other hand, characters that all speak "Oxford English" and don't have any personality quirks or problems tend to be boring to me. I don't find "Barbie Doll Sex" all that interesting -- "Barbie Doll Sex" is when every character is bigger and better than "normal" and the sex is all mechanical and risk-free.

But, like so many writing questions, it all depends on what "story" you're trying to tell. "Reality" that doesn't support the story you intend to tell or diverts the readers attention from the action, shouldn't be included. Everything you do include in a story should have a purpose or reason for being in the story.

Reality for reality's sake is just as uninteresting to me as "Barbie Doll Sex" is.

 

[Stella_Omega]

USE LUBE!
I really have a problem with completely unreal sex, because it throws me out of the story, and makes me think about the author instead- as in "S/he's obviously never done this... And that makes me feel sad!

My biggest leaps from reality are emotional, like James. My characters always like themselves in the morning, and they never get pissed off at their partners for talking them into something- Jealousy is never more thqan a quick squabble, that only spices things up. And no one ever gets interrupted by the phone or the door (hm, must remember to try that)

Physically, I might stretch normality a little, but I really don't write impossible sex. My men might be ready for a second go-round a bit sooner than flesh-and-blood guys, but.... And my characters often do fuss with the mechanics. Awkwardness can be very sexy, in my book.
My committed couples might fuck bareback, my newly-mets and one-nighters always address the issue one way or another. (Petey uses the fact that she didn't wrap her strap-on as an excuse to see Yuri again, I liked that one
Mad Moll checks her supply of rubbers and lube packs, and in Opus Hominus, the action is completely derailed while the boys hunt for condoms- and they run short on lube too ha ha! And It's completely hot, because they are so desperate to get on with it.

But tentacle stories, that's a different matter, I'll gobble up anything you tell me!

 

[cloudy]

Depends on the category.

In my two EH stories, a leap of faith is definitely required. After all, Marie Leveau isn't going to possess a young woman's body, and there's really nothing in that closet (I think ).

In another, The Warrior's Song, what people think is a leap of faith really isn't. What's written there really did happen, for the most part. I just fictionalized the characters. But it happened, I promise. It happened to me.

 

[Noor]

I agreed with the "use lube" above!

The bits of reality are what draw me in. I am not a voyuer so if I can't imagine myself in the story it loses my interest. Male characters who go on about how perfect the female character is also loses my interest. I find fembots boring.

Supposedly most of the porn currently being watched and paid for in the us is made with real life couples, not actors. It wasn't always this way, but as equipment became more affordable and accessible it slowly switched. The movie Boogie Nights illustrates the transition.
Based on that I would say a majority of the people perfer their porn real, so they probably perfer thier stories real as well.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

This is a question, I've thought about a lot. I've come to the conclusion you cannot have too much realism. It's a matter of how it's handled.

It's pretty typical to suspend reality in Sci-Fi, but the reality of the story itself carries the reader. In mainstream, you can get away with it too, but it's more difficult.

 

[angela146]

When I write stories from my real life experience, I tend to start with reality and then subtract things. In fact, I tend to write in all of the silly details like putting on makeup and fretting about what nightgown to wear - then edit them back out when I realize that the story is too boring.

But, in order to make for a good story, sometimes you have to leave out the fact that you stopped in the middle and went searching for ten minutes to find the toy you thought was in the nightstand. A story needs to build the reader's emotion. You can't always create the emotional effect you want by sticking to reality.

Also, I often take things that happened at different times and weave them into a single story. Yes, we really did all of that stuff but not on the same day.

 

[Tom Collins]

S-Des has an acute and penetrating argument, here.

Argument...I've never heard that euphemism before. Love hammer, sure...but argument? He did hit the nail on the head though.

I think the people who want bloating and quiefs in their spank stories are few and far between. Neither do most people want to hear about someone so bucktoothed they look like a donkey giving a blowjob. That's my take on it.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I never write stories from my own experiences (except one in 2002). I find it much easier to create the characters in my head and let them take on their own lives and reality. If that's reality.

 

[Frank Noir]

I remember a journalist writing about an old sex cinema having a sign out in front saying: "If you're shocked by the sight of actual copulation, please do not enter!"

Wrong, he argued. If we weren't just a little bit shocked, what fun would it be? Part of the fun of voyeurism is the feeling that "I'm not supposed to see this".

To me, the sexiest fantasies has at least some kind of shock value. In my stories, the sex usually breaks some taboos or conventions, taking place in a situation where it's normally "not supposed to happen" or between partners who aren't "supposed to" have sex.

That works better in a realistic, even mundane world, with recognizable detail. I wouldn't know how to make sex even slightly outrageous, surrounded by dragons and unicorns. But that's just me...

 

[S-Des]

USE LUBE!
I really have a problem with completely unreal sex, because it throws me out of the story, and makes me think about the author instead- as in "S/he's obviously never done this... And that makes me feel sad!

I'm not sure I get exactly what you were saying here (and would rather not assume what you meant). I started a thread about this a long time ago (when I was whining about some comments I thought were dumb ), but it didn't go very far. Things that some people do, but others swear are impossible or at least unrealistic. I know with Kiten, we haven't had to use lube for sex (vaginal or anal), although I've used it a few times to be safe. She has a natural ability to produce more than enough lubricant herself (although I'd love to take the credit for it with my incredible technique ). As for recovery time, I just got back from seeing her. There were several times where we picked up after stopping just long enough for me to recover (2-3 minutes). I did something to keep her going (either with oral sex or my fingers), then started again without letting her come down. There are guys who can manage to maintain erections after cumming (I believe Selena said S&D was one).

Not criticizing what you said, but I find this to be a fascinating subject. What do we know to be a fact (from personal experience) that others will complain isn't "realistic". As writers, are we supposed to pull back, hoping to avoid generating complaints and deductions on votes? Do we try to educate the readers with things we know can be done, or do we write our characters vanilla to avoid the appearance of exaggeration?

Hope this isn't a threadjack. I think it's close enough to the original subject to avoid it (otherwise I apologize in advance).

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm not sure I get exactly what you were saying here (and would rather not assume what you meant). I started a thread about this a long time ago (when I was whining about some comments I thought were dumb ), but it didn't go very far. Things that some people do, but others swear are impossible or at least unrealistic. I know with Kiten, we haven't had to use lube for sex (vaginal or anal), although I've used it a few times to be safe. She has a natural ability to produce more than enough lubricant herself (although I'd love to take the credit for it with my incredible technique ). As for recovery time, I just got back from seeing her. There were several times where we picked up after stopping just long enough for me to recover (2-3 minutes). I did something to keep her going (either with oral sex or my fingers), then started again without letting her come down. There are guys who can manage to maintain erections after cumming (I believe Selena said S&D was one).

Not criticizing what you said, but I find this to be a fascinating subject. What do we know to be a fact (from personal experience) that others will complain isn't "realistic". As writers, are we supposed to pull back, hoping to avoid generating complaints and deductions on votes? Do we try to educate the readers with things we know can be done, or do we write our characters vanilla to avoid the appearance of exaggeration?

Hope this isn't a threadjack. I think it's close enough to the original subject to avoid it (otherwise I apologize in advance).

I should have said- within the context of the story, sorry. I was thinking about writers who stick a cock onto a woman's arse and then into her pussy. I KIKED DOWN THE DOOR AN COME IN HER FACE kinds of things, ha ha!

No, if you were writing about Kiten, you lucky bastard, and you told the reader what you've just said here, then it would be believable. I'd be reading it through a green haze of jealousy, but I wouldn't think you were ignorant of the mechanics, you bragging sonufabitch. !

AND- in fact, that reminds me that I just read and commented on a story that went way over the top, describing a man's penis that enters the woman's anus and comes out through her throat. The woman worries about breathing for a moment and then is happy because it means she can lick the cockhead. Totally funny and sexy.

And someone commented that the author obviously didn't know anything about female antaomy....

 

[WarLordwrites]

Greetings

I write sci fi and fantasy , so it's automatically unreal!

My goal as a writer is to have my characters act in a "real" way in very odd plotting.

To me that is what realistic means: The reader can suspend belief in saying: "Yeah, thats weird but damn thats how I'd do it."

To make that realism work -- I think much of the story must be well drawn and palpable, so the leap into the unknown is from a "solid" foundation. So harem sex or a sword fight, the reader is transported deep into the narrative, if you do it right!

Enjoy the journey

WarLord

 

[S-Des]

I No, if you were writing about Kiten, you lucky bastard, and you told the reader what you've just said here, then it would be believable. I'd be reading it through a green haze of jealousy, but I wouldn't think you were ignorant of the mechanics, you bragging sonufabitch. !

Sorry... It is funny how many different opinions on sex there is. Before I met her, I wouldn't have believed a story about someone who had such a strong oral fixation that they actually became dripping wet just from giving a blow job. I had never been with a woman who wanted to be spanked or flogged (or at least one who told me about it). I've developed a completely different view of women sexually because of her, and I wonder how many signs I might have missed in previous relationships (or did I just date really vanilla women?). I'm sure many of the readers have similar experiences, which is why I asked what we should do as writers. Do you hold back, or try to push the envelope? When you do, has their been a negative reaction?

 

[SlickTony]

This is an interesting discussion.

I like all my characters to have mindblowing sex, and get off every time. I mean, the readers have enough times in their own realities when it just doesn't happen that way; that the orgasm they have is diffused because of something that distracted them, or it doesn't happen when they want it to and they end up having to finish themselves off some time later. You know, stuff like that.

OTOH, I like adding touches of realism that I think make the readers identify with the characters. Esme Trent, the avocational cougar in "Carnival" and "Encore" doesn't really like back-door sex, presumably because she has proctological issues; when Terry ("If You Choose Not to Decide")--who has low blood pressure--goes down on Gavin, Sidonie's husband, he notices that there is a slight lessening in the hardness of Gavin's cock, which is perfectly normal for a man in his 50s, and which does not prevent either character's enjoyment of the sex. In "Carnival" the two women in the story wake up with indigestion after having done the town in pre-Katrina New Orleans. Some of my characters are not even technically good-looking. In my latest story, "Zandra's Valentine Weekend," Zandra, even though she is sexually advanced compared to some of the other girls in her time, she doesn't know everything and she discovers that during the weekend. Periodically the characters have to deal with issues such as the intrusion of grandchildren and not having their own places and other features of the mundane lives they lead.

My personal opinion is that if you add a few little touchstones of reality to your stories, you can get pretty fantastical with the sex as long as you don't actually violate the laws of biology and physics.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That's awesome, Slick Tony

 

[elsol]

I think of it as reality without the smell.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[angela146]

Sorry... It is funny how many different opinions on sex there is. Before I met her, I wouldn't have believed a story about someone who had such a strong oral fixation that they actually became dripping wet just from giving a blow job. I had never been with a woman who wanted to be spanked or flogged (or at least one who told me about it). I've developed a completely different view of women sexually because of her, and I wonder how many signs I might have missed in previous relationships (or did I just date really vanilla women?). I'm sure many of the readers have similar experiences, which is why I asked what we should do as writers. Do you hold back, or try to push the envelope? When you do, has their been a negative reaction?

I've was flamed by people, (not here but in another place) for writing about a real event where my husband forced himself on me, hurt me in the process and in the middle I stopped kicking and screaming and started to enjoy it.

Women were telling me that I must have been making it up, that it was like a scene from a bad movie, that no woman ever enjoys being raped, not even by her husband... blah blah blah...

Well, it turns out that some women actually like doing things with their husbands that they aren't supposed to like. (And, by the way, there really were lesbians in Victorian England).

The thing is, there are a lot of real things that happen behind closed doors that no one ever hears about because the people involved don't want to talk about it. And the *reason* is that they know they will be ridiculed.

And, no, this isn't a threadjack.

Sometimes the most erotic stories can be the ones that take the reader into a reality that exists but that the reader has never visited. A lot of readers of erotic stories have never been married. Others haven't been single in a long long time. Still others have never been in the kind of relationship that is depicted in in the story.

What goes on in your every day life might be an awesome fantasy for me if you write about it (hint hint).

And, believe me, there are a lot of people out there who wonder what it must be like to actually sleep with someone every night of your adult life. I get feedback emails from them all the time.

So, to answer the OP, yes, it is ok to suspend the reader's belief a little for the sake of eroticism. However, it is also OK to let the reality be what it is. Reality can be very erotic.