false equivalency equivalency and chess for tyros

[phrodeau]

The IRS was weaponized the day it was born.

 

[bellisarius]

Comey, Brennan, and Rosenstein are pointing fingers at each other. This is getting to be FUN.

 

[cleaver]

Cleaver, Trump was the target, Page was but a portal. The fact that the Steele dossier was used as justification for the FISA warrant is proof of that. Page was but one of many names dropped in that dossier but the subject WAS Trump.

The Clinton's had more, and more concerning, ties to Russia than Page. Why wasn't that investigated? Further, if Page's actions were subject to doubt why wasn't Trump briefed on the subject? They certainly had no problem sandbagging Flynn.

And as a side note, the newly appointed US Attorney to investigate the shennanigan's of the previous administration has actually been on the job for the past 2 months. A whole lot of people are going to be lawyering up.

trump was a target?

trump was a high profile - candidate
with obvious and questionable business dealings with putin's russia.

trump was a high profile - candidate
with first 1 and then another campaign staffer
who had raised red flags re: the contemporaneous russian election interference

trump was a high profile - candidate
who called for russia to "find" hrc's emails
after benefiting from the wikileaks dump of dnc emails hacked by russia

trump was a high profile - candidate
whose campaign manager had been a player in russian and ukranian politics
as well as had met with julian assange in the ecudorian embaassy

trump was a high profile - candidate
running for president of the united states...

was he targeted?

i'm quite sure the appropriate agencies were appropriately curious
about the nature of the connections between trump and putin's russia.

i'm quite sure that as these agencies dug deeper... fisa'd certain individuals
contemporaneous press digging into the same...

yeah. i think there was some concerted intelligence/counter intelligence done.

were there excesses - perhaps... the investigation continues.

was there a demonstrable clandestine political apparatus within these agencies
coordinating a 'job' on trump... in what would be called a conspiracy?

have yet to be shown any such sasquatch.

as to the steele docs:
contemporaneously... the steele dossier did not reach the fbi counterintelligence offices until september 2016...
as salacious as parts of it are,
the only directly tangible result was to fisa page...
who had already been a person of interest re: russia...
and was a staffer on the campaign

the steele dossier - as faulted as parts of it may be - is not the lynch pin you are looking for...

there were several tracts within various agencies of the intelligence community
that had been amassing alarming information about a possible trump/russia connection
- within the umbra of the counterintelligence investigation into russian interference in the upcoming election...

you want a bogey man?
might as well nominate cia director john brennan...
who headed a clandestine interagency task force
since july when the dnc emails wiki-leaked...
the intelligence gathered by this task force - entirely independent of steele's -
lined up with parts of what steele collected - lending contemporary veritas
to the dossier.

you look at the steele docs as if they were the turd dropped in the punch bowl...
and wave it around saying... "look!look!look!"

the steele dossier was a late entrant
to the counterintelligence party...

yeah. a possible trump russia connection was of concern to the intelligence community... should it not have been?

as to investigating hrc's russian connections?
why was there no apparent rush during the campaign period to...
dig deep into her putin-ability?

you keep returning to this
as if she were being conscientiously protected by the deep state
during the campaign?

you mean former secretary of state clinton?
on whom a full and no doubt constant counter-intelligence vet
had been ongoing since... at least 2007/8...

trump was the newbie here, ish!

as the intelligence community was coming up to speed re this...
high profile candidate to be president of the united states...

and finding strange connections to possibly tie him to putin?

yeah. the trump desk was no doubt busier than the clinton one in counterintelligence

in regard to the greater investigation - the brennan task force -
they were looking at russia and it's interference in the ongoing election...
which effected all candidates...

they were not starting with trump to connect him to russia.
they were looking at russia following alarming tendrils back.

why does simple objective reason take such a holiday
in favor of some...
tom clancy/john le carre mashup frankenstein of a bedtime story?

 

[bellisarius]

Now give us the list of high profile democrats tied up with Russian and Ukrainian business interests. Add China as well to that list.

The fact that someone is high profile and does international business is NOT a reason to commit fraud before the FISA court. Contrary to what seems to be growing popular opinion we still observe 'innocent until proven guilty' in this nation.

Further, if all was on the up and up as you continually assert Brenna, Comey, and Rosenstein wouldn't be playing the blame game.

 

[cleaver]

Now give us the list of high profile democrats tied up with Russian and Ukrainian business interests. Add China as well to that list.

The fact that someone is high profile and does international business is NOT a reason to commit fraud before the FISA court. Contrary to what seems to be growing popular opinion we still observe 'innocent until proven guilty' in this nation.

Further, if all was on the up and up as you continually assert Brenna, Comey, and Rosenstein wouldn't be playing the blame game.

explain your blame game.

i am not familiar with this.

not that it matters, really...
if this is hindsigfht - over using the steele dossier...
see my above.

time was a factor.
the election was a month away when steele landed at fbi.
steele was considered reliable - a former brit intelligence agent -
and much in steele's many documents
was corroborated by independently gathered intel.
steele came in late in the initial investigation...

let the post mortem sort this out.

the employment of steele's dossier does not obviate the results of mueller.
nor does it empower the executive branch to claim exclusive oversight over these issues.

sure the doj is doing its internal... investigation.
heads are gonna roll.
does not congress have a legitimate interest?

what? is all this to avenge poor carter page?

btw... you address nothing in my previous...
still on about... well not hrc... but all democrats re russia, now...
oh yeah... you toss in china...
who was not actively fucking with the election.

trump, the newbie was running for president.
clinton, the vetted, watched and intelled one, was too.
russia was pissing in the election punchbowl.

them's the basics.

i do hate the 'deflection' invocation... but

come on, ish.
i do not need to win.
i just want to understand.

and again...
as is the new washington norm...
we dive down the minutia sinkhole
as the uglier fat fact issue is... obscured...

so?

 

[SpeareChucker]

What the hell is a low-profile candidate for President?


Mondale? Dukakis? Bloomberg?

 

[bellisarius]

Rather than me typing this all out piecemeal, take the time to watch this video.

Spying on Trump.

 

[cleaver]

Rather than me typing this all out piecemeal, take the time to watch this video.

Spying on Trump.

ok. so.
the cinc knew the intel that led to trump and possible
entanglements with russia
in re: fucking with the upcoming election.

obama knew that trump was possibly implicated

good.
he should have been informed.
that is the job.

obama also chose not to go public with
any allegations prior to the election.

which suggests two things -
- he was not entirely convinced the intel showed a conspiracy...
(funny. that's what mueller found)
and...
he did not want the ongoing - and then incomplete task force findings -
to influence any more, an election now weeks away...

the continuance of the investigation and informed consent
certainly went on into post election and transition...
it still had to do with russian interference...
and there were con-trails coming from and leading to trump tower...
yeah. per protocol, obama was aware.

so the allegations in your vid are big super secret bombshell news?

there is no evidence that the president shared anything with the
hrc campaign.

it shows to me that the intel "deep state" was
actually following protocol...
authorizations down the line...
yeah... so you finger susan rice... for doing her job
and ultimately
providing to the cinc
the product of their task force work.

it's this task force of nsa, cia, fbi, doj - under brennan -
to do counterintel on the russian interference in the election
who were "spying" on trump, right?

are you suggesting that the bogey man is actually....
bumpbumpbum.... OBAMA!

your vid above demonstrates that your "deep state" was operating
within protocol
and, dynamically, in the clear.

hmmmmmm... does not really support this whole spun conspiracy narrative.

certainly the president had a vested interest in the outcome of the election.
nothing - absolutely nothing - has been shown that the intel
he was most certainly provided, was used in any way to effect the election
from the white house.

again, this veers so far astray from any reasonable reading of the timeline and facts that... unhhh!

this thread started as a discussion about how the administration
has so manipulated the narrative that it effectively obscures
the areas in which it is most vulnerable...

which...
it seems,
still goes back to the not so subtle playbook
mueller, in concluding his report,
laid out for congress to pursue.

so.
amongst other things:

- the administration stops anyone in the exec from cooperating with the house.
- they attack at the underpinnings of the mueller investigation.
- they attack the media - which has been - and as a result, becomes more so - critical.
- they continue - without tangible evidence - to blame 'deep state' as bogeyman - tearing into the fabric of doj, fbi, cia, nsa...et al...
- they contort fact to fit a skewed narrative.
- they taunt a disparate 235 democrats to try to coalesce an impeachment; knowing the senate is owned.
- and now...tossed into the self serving mix is a trade war with china and a wag the dog with iran...

in the most reasonable and objective reading of this,
it becomes dangerously cynical...

for it is to protect and promote the man...
not the office...
or in service to the country.

... and people are foolish enough to believe that in this
he is a champion for your rights and liberty.

the stripes on this tiger were set long ago...
when his modus was to screw hot blondes
get his name and picture in the local papers
put his name on and to anything he could
do shifty deals
and...
look in the mirror.

...after avoiding the draft.

sources and methods? suspect?
yeah.
go straight to the actual source.

 

[bellisarius]

You either didn't watch or you plugged your ears. keep singing that tune as the bastards that p0erpetrated this on out Republic indicted.

 

[cleaver]

What the hell is a low-profile candidate for President?


Mondale? Dukakis? Bloomberg?

take a gander at the almost score
of dwarfs now in the ring
including bill de blahhhs-ego.

my point was:
trump - a political newbie - political unknown - and reasonably unvetted
topped the major party ticket. he had been the 'presumptive' since super tuesday

the dnc bought into commercial intel - specifically on the opponent
(intel that was already in progress - commissioned by a conservative client)
that became the steele dossier...

you would think that "deep state" would already have something juicy to slip to the dnc, but....

no.
"deep state " didn't get in on the hack job until...
after the dnc's electronic data was leaked,
the russians were definitively fingered,
and brennan gathered his "deep staters"
to smear trump...
under the plausible deniability cover of...
counterintelligence against russian interference in the upcoming election...

and... obama.

 

[cleaver]

You either didn't watch or you plugged your ears. keep singing that tune as the bastards that p0erpetrated this on out Republic indicted.

i watched and listened and digested
and made commentary.

please afford me the respect
that we both (mostly) try to
cultivate in this cesspool.

 

[cleaver]

here. this will make y'all happy...
a little deep state - shit plate all wrapped up and hot:

Coup Leader Barack “Milhous” Obama makes Nixon look like an amateur

good old
primary source material
for tossing on the pyre

sharpen the sabres...
we're gonna git some...