Fair and Impartial Jurisprudence in Alabama
- Thread starter Problem Child
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Alright then
http://www.freedomforum.org/fac/95-96/rome_sum.htm
... but I'm just indulging you, not playing
Azwed said:
http://www.freedomforum.org/fac/95-96/rome_sum.htm
... but I'm just indulging you, not playing
zipman
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Re: Re: Fair and Impartial Jurisprudence in Alabama
I agree with the decision reached that he should be removed from his job.
However, I also feel that Judge Moore made a valid point about the hypocritical use of religion in our country.
Having "In God we Trust" on our money and having people place their hand on a bible to be sworn are but two examples of religion in our government that should be changed.
Pookie said:
I agree with the decision reached that he should be removed from his job.
However, I also feel that Judge Moore made a valid point about the hypocritical use of religion in our country.
Having "In God we Trust" on our money and having people place their hand on a bible to be sworn are but two examples of religion in our government that should be changed.
The Plunger
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'The God Gulf'
"The most striking cleavage [in American life] is the God Gulf, and it should terrify the Democrats," New York Times columnist Nicholas D. Kristof writes.
"Put simply, liberals are becoming more secular at a time when America is becoming increasingly religious, the consequence of a new Great Awakening. Americans, for example, are significantly more likely now than in 1987 to say they 'completely agree' that 'prayer is an important part of my daily life' and that 'we all will be called before God on Judgment Day to answer for our sins.'
"The Pew [Research Center] survey found that white evangelicals are leaving the Democratic Party in droves. Fifteen years ago, white evangelicals were split equally between the two parties; now they're twice as likely to be Republicans. Likewise, white Catholics who attend Mass regularly used to be strongly Democratic; now they are more likely to be Republican," Mr. Kristof said.
"Since Americans are three times as likely to believe in the virgin birth of Jesus as in evolution, liberal derision for President Bush's religious beliefs risks marginalizing the left."
"The most striking cleavage [in American life] is the God Gulf, and it should terrify the Democrats," New York Times columnist Nicholas D. Kristof writes.
"Put simply, liberals are becoming more secular at a time when America is becoming increasingly religious, the consequence of a new Great Awakening. Americans, for example, are significantly more likely now than in 1987 to say they 'completely agree' that 'prayer is an important part of my daily life' and that 'we all will be called before God on Judgment Day to answer for our sins.'
"The Pew [Research Center] survey found that white evangelicals are leaving the Democratic Party in droves. Fifteen years ago, white evangelicals were split equally between the two parties; now they're twice as likely to be Republicans. Likewise, white Catholics who attend Mass regularly used to be strongly Democratic; now they are more likely to be Republican," Mr. Kristof said.
"Since Americans are three times as likely to believe in the virgin birth of Jesus as in evolution, liberal derision for President Bush's religious beliefs risks marginalizing the left."
sunstruck
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The idea that the ten commandments are the moral basis for our justice system is fucking ridiculous.
1. "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."
And yet what is the first sentence of the first amendment? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" which also means the courts can't try a person for worshiping any god at all.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the Earth beneath, or that is in the water under the Earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep My Commandments.
Has nothing to do with our justice system, but if you really want to piss off a nun, try asking her about this one and a crucifix.
3. Thou shalt not take the Name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh His Name in vain.
Has nothing to do with our justice system.
4. Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.
Now THIS one you can kind of say works because no one goes to court on Sunday, but it's not really a tenant the system was BASED on is it?
5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Uh, yeah right. Anyone who's ever sat in family court knows that would be bullshit.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
Death Penalty anyone?
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Oh please. Who wants to list off the members of the supreme court alone. Besides, you can't be criminally charged for it there for it's not a base in our justice system.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
Ok, that one is.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
This one also.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's.
Has nothing to do with our justice system.
2 out of 10 is hardly a "moral basis" or whatever he called it.
1. "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."
And yet what is the first sentence of the first amendment? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" which also means the courts can't try a person for worshiping any god at all.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the Earth beneath, or that is in the water under the Earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep My Commandments.
Has nothing to do with our justice system, but if you really want to piss off a nun, try asking her about this one and a crucifix.
3. Thou shalt not take the Name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh His Name in vain.
Has nothing to do with our justice system.
4. Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.
Now THIS one you can kind of say works because no one goes to court on Sunday, but it's not really a tenant the system was BASED on is it?
5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Uh, yeah right. Anyone who's ever sat in family court knows that would be bullshit.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
Death Penalty anyone?
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Oh please. Who wants to list off the members of the supreme court alone. Besides, you can't be criminally charged for it there for it's not a base in our justice system.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
Ok, that one is.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
This one also.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's.
Has nothing to do with our justice system.
2 out of 10 is hardly a "moral basis" or whatever he called it.
sunstruck
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RawHumor said:
Are you kidding me? These are the commandments of God to men, not to God. By that definition everytime someone died by natural causes or accident, everytime a priest at a funeral said "let God's will be done" God would be breaking his own commandment.
brokenbrainwave
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Forgetting the fact he violated a court order, thusly putting him in a very precarious position job wise, the thing I find most amazing in all this horse shit is how ignorant people on both sides of the agenda act.
Fact: Those against any form of public displaying religion would go to vast extremes to blantantly lie when it comes to what the constitution actually says.
Fact: Those for being able to fly God in the face of everyone they meet needs to take a hard cold look at what the scripture actually says...and just how they are applying it to their own lives...before they can say they are worthy to preach.
Niether side is correct and used techniques that sicken me. IF there is true church and state seperation called for (a debatable point) then why the prayer before the Senate, Supreme Courts, so on and so forth?
Anyone around here that knows me knows I am not religious, at all. But by the same token I am not offended when I see a public official professing their faith nor was I offended by the monument, nor am I offended by the ten commandments being placed in courthouses if that is what the local electorate wants. Jesus peoples get a grip and don't be so uptight. They are only words, and while they mean more to some than to others, they are merely simply words...and not a bad guide to live by.
Yes, it is possible to hold the Ten Commandments as a personal tennet and not buy into the whole God thing...
Fact: Those against any form of public displaying religion would go to vast extremes to blantantly lie when it comes to what the constitution actually says.
Fact: Those for being able to fly God in the face of everyone they meet needs to take a hard cold look at what the scripture actually says...and just how they are applying it to their own lives...before they can say they are worthy to preach.
Niether side is correct and used techniques that sicken me. IF there is true church and state seperation called for (a debatable point) then why the prayer before the Senate, Supreme Courts, so on and so forth?
Anyone around here that knows me knows I am not religious, at all. But by the same token I am not offended when I see a public official professing their faith nor was I offended by the monument, nor am I offended by the ten commandments being placed in courthouses if that is what the local electorate wants. Jesus peoples get a grip and don't be so uptight. They are only words, and while they mean more to some than to others, they are merely simply words...and not a bad guide to live by.
Yes, it is possible to hold the Ten Commandments as a personal tennet and not buy into the whole God thing...
Ishmael
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Here's a discussion on the error in translation sunny.
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/001102_ThouShaltNotMurder.html
Ishmael
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/001102_ThouShaltNotMurder.html
Ishmael
sunstruck
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Oh! But if we're really going to use the commandments as a base should be not also use biblical punishment? If one is valid then the other should be as well.
Now...let's see...Ok "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death". Leviticus 20:10
And as we all know the preferred method of putting people to death in the Bible is...A GOOD OLD FASHIONED STONING!! Yeah!
Ok, so everyone grab a stone, nothing too big though because you don't want to kill anyone with the first shot. I mean, if God wanted adulterers to die easily stoning would hardly have been his method of choice now would it?
Ok, got your stone? Good, because Lit is a playground of adultery! Hey! Let's start in the playground!
Onward Christian Soldiers!
Now...let's see...Ok "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death". Leviticus 20:10
And as we all know the preferred method of putting people to death in the Bible is...A GOOD OLD FASHIONED STONING!! Yeah!
Ok, so everyone grab a stone, nothing too big though because you don't want to kill anyone with the first shot. I mean, if God wanted adulterers to die easily stoning would hardly have been his method of choice now would it?
Ok, got your stone? Good, because Lit is a playground of adultery! Hey! Let's start in the playground!
Onward Christian Soldiers!
brokenbrainwave
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LOL sunny, if by chance that was directed at my post all I said is I was not personally offended by privately funded displays. Futhermore I am not offended by Jewish, Islamic, or Athiest displays as long as my tax dollars are not involved. Granted I did use the word electorate. Perhaps poor choice of wording on my part.
I suppose the bottom line is I see the entire issue as silly, especially considering the public monies used to fight a insane battle on both sides. Could not all this money be of better use to curb teen age pregnancy, child molestors/child abusers, and other more dangerous sociatal ills?
I suppose the bottom line is I see the entire issue as silly, especially considering the public monies used to fight a insane battle on both sides. Could not all this money be of better use to curb teen age pregnancy, child molestors/child abusers, and other more dangerous sociatal ills?
brokenbrainwave
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this comment alone should congure up several God posers using a wide array of usernames.sunstruck said:
Gee thanks....
RawHumor
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sunstruck said:
I'm not saying that all of the 10 Commandments should be law - and I don't think anyone is.
Probabably the biggest one that is violated is #4 (without arguing if Saturday or Sunday is the Sabbath Day for now). I mean, imagine not being able to go to the store on Sunday (Ooh, I forgot the starch for the Sunday dinner), imagine not watching football on Sunday (that is their job, after all, not to mention all of the vendors and such that are working at the stadium), and imagine not being able to do yard work on Sunday. I readily admit that I break that commandment far too often.
patient1
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Re: Re: Re: Fair and Impartial Jurisprudence in Alabama
Yeah. Especially when you consider that God doesn't approve of interest charges.
Having a person swear on The Bible really takes the cake.
Jesus , in the sermon on the mount according to Saint Matthew chapter 5: verses 33 -37 said-
"Again, the law of Moses says, 'You shall not break your vows to God, but must fulfill them all." But I say: Don't make any vows! And even to say "By heavens!" is a sacred vow to God, for the heavens are God's throne. And if you say 'By the earth!' it is a sacred vow, for the earh is his footstool. And don't swear 'By Jerusalem!', for Jerusalem is the capital of the great King. Don't even swear 'By my head!' for you can't turn one hair white or black.
Say just a simple 'Yes, I will' or 'No, I won't.' Your word is enough. To strengthen your promise with a vow shows something is wrong."
How's that for a revelation/conundrum? To swear by The Bible is to swear against it. It doesn't speak well of the government that compells people to defy their religion, or the christians that comply.
zipman7 said:
Yeah. Especially when you consider that God doesn't approve of interest charges.
Having a person swear on The Bible really takes the cake.
Jesus , in the sermon on the mount according to Saint Matthew chapter 5: verses 33 -37 said-
"Again, the law of Moses says, 'You shall not break your vows to God, but must fulfill them all." But I say: Don't make any vows! And even to say "By heavens!" is a sacred vow to God, for the heavens are God's throne. And if you say 'By the earth!' it is a sacred vow, for the earh is his footstool. And don't swear 'By Jerusalem!', for Jerusalem is the capital of the great King. Don't even swear 'By my head!' for you can't turn one hair white or black.
Say just a simple 'Yes, I will' or 'No, I won't.' Your word is enough. To strengthen your promise with a vow shows something is wrong."
How's that for a revelation/conundrum? To swear by The Bible is to swear against it. It doesn't speak well of the government that compells people to defy their religion, or the christians that comply.
celiaKitten
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BBW - I would agree with you, except for the fact that I've been around evangelical Christians all of my life, from Vatican I Catholics to Free Methodists. I've seen abuse of power and bias from this group firsthand and merely in a fishbowl. (meaning, county gov't, school systems, etc.) It happens, unfortunately.
When a judge is allowed to do what he did .. that scares me. I think objectivity, fairness according to our nation's laws would be sacrificed for the laws of Christianity - and a specific section of it, at that.
When a judge is allowed to do what he did .. that scares me. I think objectivity, fairness according to our nation's laws would be sacrificed for the laws of Christianity - and a specific section of it, at that.
Your assertion here is equally as valid or invalid as is Sunstruck's to which I'm presuming you responded.
An assertion without a reasoned basis is valueless. Care to elucidate a bit as to why it's a bad thing?
Since everyone is so insistent on the concept that there is such a thing as Gay Rights perhaps someone can enumerate for me precisely what they are.
What I ask is for someone to cite what these rights are, what is their basis, why do homosexuals warrant these special rights that others don't.
I was under the impression a strict constructionist believed that legislation should not be created beyond the authority explicitly enumerated in the Constitution. And the Constitution does not permit legislating popular opinion as law; in fact, it does not permit most of the legislative endeavors.
Is the underlined portion of your quote in fact true? That he rejects the foundational premise of the founders expressed in the Declaration of Independence that rights are innate but rather are the largess of government?
That's frightening. It rejects the most fundamental premise of freedom.
What is the legitimate function of a judge? Is it to apply and when necessary clarify the law or is it to apply his vision of the proper manner in which a society should conduct itself? What does it mean to say we have a government of laws not of men?
Aren't the dichotomies of religion intriguing and entertaining?
I have a reference which I respect that offers that the original language of this passage was the equivalent in the original language of the English: "Thou shalt not murder". Executing a murderer and thereby protecting innocent people from further injury is NOT the same as murder in any rational context.
And for someone Jewish here, does the Tora say murder as I've been told rather than kill?
But it would certainly take the wind out of the sails of the collectivist who wish to use government to redistribute wealth, wouldn't it?
A good point. While religion of various forms has forwarded some basic fact regarding the proper treatment of our fellow man does not validate every one of their percepts and beliefs. A few aspects of most religions are rational or somewhat so while most is not. It's a matter of separating the rational from the irrational.
What I find particularly entertaining about this fiasco is:
- Judge Moore is the Chief Justice of the Alabama state supreme Court.
- His oath is to uphold the Constitution of the state of Alabama
- The Alabama Constitution specifically recognizes Almighty God
- Recognizing God is merely Judge Moore complying with his oath of office.[/list=1]Edited to correct typo.
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