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[Voboy]

**Waves hand, nods vigorously**

I mean, I like the Red H, I enjoy the comments. I'm happy when a story bests my previous best score. But yeah, I don't keep spreadsheets tacking votes, I don't analyze views or figure out the proportion of view to votes. I'm gonna enter contests because I think it's an interesting hook for a story, or i have an idea that'll fit. But no, I don't care about winning anything.

Mmhmm.

I enter the contests because the themes challenge me. I'm satisfied when I produce something I'd like to read, and when others want to? That's a bonus.

 

[MichaelGH]

Does anyone else just write because they love to write and don't care about the rest of it?

I write to try and gain the love that my daddy never gave me.

 

[Bramblethorn]

No, it is not. It is a telecommunications law, and the argument that one can be applied to the other is valid.

No, it isn't. The fact that it's a "telecommunications law" doesn't mean it applies to all forms of telecommunication, when it very specifically refers to one medium of telecommunication.

It's just as nonsensical as if I argued:

Dogs are animals.
Fish are animals.
The law that requires dogs to be licensed and registered is an "animal law".
Therefore, the law requires fish to be licensed!

 

[Inkhorn]

I write to try and gain the love that my daddy never gave me.

Ahhh! That explains the incest/taboo stories! (I kid.)

No, it isn't. The fact that it's a "telecommunications law" doesn't mean it applies to all forms of telecommunication, when it very specifically refers to one medium of telecommunication.

It's just as nonsensical as if I argued:

Dogs are animals.
Fish are animals.
The law that requires dogs to be licensed and registered is an "animal law".
Therefore, the law requires fish to be licensed!

Only if they are all named “Eric.” (I’m sorry, I now have Monty Python’s “Fish License” routine stuck in my head.)

 

[Bramblethorn]

Only if they are all named “Eric.” (I’m sorry, I now have Monty Python’s “Fish License” routine stuck in my head.)

Ha! I didn't even think of that sketch, but of course.

 

[TomorrowGent]

<i>Deleted</i>

 

[Hypoxia]

None of that means that Literotica is a radio station. The law you cited is specifically about radio stations.

No, it is not. It is a telecommunications law, and the argument that one can be applied to the other is valid.

Websites are not radio stations. (Trust me; I hold FCC broadcast licenses.) Broad- and narrow-casters, websites and IoT servers, may share ownership, but they are distinct media under different rules. Wireless media is usually licensed; wired, mostly not.

Much electro gear (*) radiates EMF; that doesn't make them broadcasters. Almost every plug-in device you own is FCC regulated, even if not telecom. And we can telecommunicate with semaphore flags, smoke signals, and loud yodels; FCC doesn't regulate those. You telecommunicate when you throw a power switch but you are not held to fake-radio-contest rules then. Whew.

Every FCC rule is aimed at specific types of services. Look-em up.
_____

(*) Electro gear, electric vs electronic:

• Electric: electrons flow in wires, coils, capacitors, resistors, filaments, spark gaps, mechanical switches, diodes, etc.
• Electronic: electric flow is controlled by vacuum tube grids (valves) or semiconductor junctions (gates).

 

[JamesMiehoff]

OK, I have read every entry in this thread twice and I am still confused as to the issue.

As far as I know, unless you are one of the lucky 3 to score on one of the Site Sanctioned Story Events for which the site owners put up a cash prize, everybody gets paid the same amount. Which is to say the undying love and admiration of our personal 1 bombing trolls.

I could see it if there were private contests being organized on an invitation only basis and Laurel was funding them. But unless I've missed those, I have not seen evidence of that.

I understand that a contest in a specific group may force you off the front page of the new stories quicker, but that can happen anytime enough writers get their hands off their privates and finish a bunch of stories all at once.

I am just happy when a couple thousand people at least pop one of my stories open and a few stay to vote. Well, that and finding out that 30 other internet sites found it interesting enough to bootleg it and post it on their site.

I am more than willing to admit that I may be naïve, but I don't see the harm here.

James

 

[TomorrowGent]

<i>Deleted</i>

 

[Bramblethorn]

What part of Internet falls un telecommunications don't you understand?

What part of "just because two things both fall under 'telecommunications' doesn't mean they are legally equivalent" don't you understand?

Murder falls under "criminal law". Assault also falls under "criminal law". It doesn't follow that laws about murder inherently include assault.

(And, in your example, shouldn't fish have to be "registered" too?) Only licensed, what kind of silly world are you living in?

Where did I say they didn't?

Despite the new advancements in communication technologies that the Internet has created, media can still generally be divided into two categories. Print media incorporates newspapers, magazines, and books, while telecommunications media covers radio, television, satellite, wire, cable, and Internet.

You keep quoting that, and it still doesn't mean what you want it to mean.

Yes, radio and internet are both examples of "telecommunications". Yes, laws relating to radio can be considered "telecommunications laws". No, that doesn't mean that laws about "radio" automatically apply to internet.

Now, here is an idea of what COULD happen if these two issues were brought before a court: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boumediene_v._Bush (This is an example of how similar situations can influence cases.)

Uh... that is a case about whether the US Constitution extends to POWs held in Guantanamo. (SCOTUS ruled that it did.) It's about as relevant here as Arkell v. Pressdram. Seriously, you're getting into sovcit levels of nonsense here.

If you brought this before a court, should an internet contest, under the telecommunications laws, which it falls under, follow the same same rules as a radio contest?

"The telecommunications laws" is a bunch of laws covering a wide range of things. When a "telecommunications law" specifically defines its scope as radio then no, it does not cover internet contests.

Even if it did, the law you cited wouldn't be relevant here, because it requires intent to deceive - something that nobody has demonstrated here.

 

[TomorrowGent]

<i>Deleted</i>

 

[Bramblethorn]

You're trying too hard and ignoring interpretations of the law. My example provided how one side can see something one way, and the other sees it another way, and it will be up to the courts to decide the outcome.

There certainly are matters over which lawyers disagree.

Whether the internet is a "radio" that people listen to on "radio receivers" is not likely to be one of them.

Speculation and theory, once you decided to place me on one side of that, I showed you how things work and you refuse to acknowledge it because you can't. Once you've made up your mind, it's all or nothing, no matter how narrow your arguments, because you NEED to be right.

Nah. If somebody who demonstrated basic legal competence were to tell me that I'm wrong about this, and show me a legal basis under which "website" could be interpreted as "radio" (or point to some other law that did apply here), I would take them seriously.

But you are not that person. Like you, I'm not a lawyer. Unlike you, I've spent enough time around lawyers to know a little about how law works, and "radio and internet are both telecommunications QED!" ain't it.

I provided information, you chose to debate, and you've lost.

Damn. Wish I'd thought to declare myself the winner before you got to it. That's me told then.

This conversation is over for me.

Bye now.

 

[Hypoxia]

Do some research. Just because you say one thing is not, does not mean the courts will agree with you.

I had to know the Telecommunications Acts and broadcast regulations to earn my FCC licenses. Have you researched current regulations? If you know of cases of FCC sanctioning websites for content violations, whip-em out!

The FCC pulls wireless licenses to shut down rule violators without going to court unless appealed. Websites and networks aren't licensed in USA. Whew.
_____

ObTopic: Non-contest non-monetary events -- author's challenges, really -- cause no damage. LIT authors can organize any open or invitational event they can float past Laurel. The only real reward IMHO is self-gratification.

 

[SimonDoom]

No, it is not. It is a telecommunications law, and the argument that one can be applied to the other is valid. Whether it will hold up is another matter. (Speculation and theory.)

U.S. Code Title 47. TELECOMMUNICATIONS Chapter 5. WIRE OR RADIO COMMUNICATION Subchapter V. PENAL PROVISIONS; FORFEITURES Section 509. Prohibited practices in contests of knowledge, skill, or chance



If you refuse to see that, then you refuse to see it. The law is much bigger than one person's tunnel vision, that is why there are appeals.

Feel free to repeat yourself.

You are incorrect about this.

Title 47 of the US Code applies to a broad range of Telecommunications media, including telegraphs, radio, the Internet, and undersea cables. But it's very clear from the language in different chapters that not all provisions apply to all media. Section 509 prohibits certain contest activity, but it specifically defines contests to be contests on the radio, so it would not apply to contests on the Internet. That's clear from the statute. I don't see how it could be any clearer.

I don't believe there's a US federal law that governs contests on the Internet, specifically. I imagine Internet contests would fall within the sweep of Title 15 of the US Code, which covers false and deceptive advertising and practices.

I don't see what's false or deceptive here. Who, exactly, is being deceived?

The participants in events/challenges aren't being deceived because nowhere in the details of the challenges is anyone offered the possibility of winning money.

Contests offer cash prizes, but the rules seem pretty clear.

Unless you can make a coherent argument that someone is being deceived I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I don't believe there's a US federal law that governs contests on the Internet, specifically. I imagine Internet contests would fall within the sweep of Title 15 of the US Code, which covers false and deceptive advertising and practices.

Some could also fall under online gambling laws, but again, hard to see that applying to the contests here.

 

[SimonDoom]

Some could also fall under online gambling laws, but again, hard to see that applying to the contests here.

Those laws only apply to games of chance, which the contests here are not.

I really can't see any risk of any kind here. Nobody pays anything to enter a contest. No one can claim they've been ripped off or deceived in any way. It's not enough to say "I didn't understand the rules."

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I hope that is cleared up... as:

First, this was not a thread about contests for any monetary gain and even if contest was mentioned, the real reason this thread was started was the OP felt a certain group were taking advantage to promote themselves on what is basically a free site.

Second, the telecommunications act which included the word Internet in it meant radio broadcasts over the internet. The federal government of the U.S. does not regulate the internet via the FCC... yet.

 

[TomorrowGent]

<i>Deleted</i>

 

[BelleCanzuto]

(*) Electro gear, electric vs electronic:

• Electric: electrons flow in wires, coils, capacitors, resistors, filaments, spark gaps, mechanical switches, diodes, etc.
• Electronic: electric flow is controlled by vacuum tube grids (valves) or semiconductor junctions (gates).

I've, really, always wondered what the actual differences were between "electric" and "electronic". I figured there had to be some difference, but never understood what it was. Thx, Hypoxia

I hope that is cleared up... as:

First, this was not a thread about contests for any monetary gain and even if contest was mentioned, the real reason this thread was started was the OP felt a certain group were taking advantage to promote themselves on what is basically a free site.

Second, the telecommunications act which included the word Internet in it meant radio broadcasts over the internet. The federal government of the U.S. does not regulate the internet via the FCC... yet.

You'd think that'd clear it up, but apparently not... {but then again, according to some folk, all of us are just idiots. And isn't calling everyone you're interacting with dumb a tried and true way to make friend or have pleasant interactions}. Count me among those who weren't sure what the objection to invitationals was in the first place. Though I did think it was odd that the annoucement for the event which spawned this thread came so close to the publication date.

 

[gordo12]

Provided these select invitation events don't badge themselves as "The Best Writers on Literotica" - which they're not, by any subjective or objective measure - they can do what they like.

Unfortunately they do. I remember one invitational where one of the invited authors boasted at large about the quality of the invitees and the story he/she was writing. THAT bothered me greatly. I took personal satisfaction when a story of mine published in the same category at almost the same time whaled the shit out theirs till they both dropped past the 30 day mark.

Does anyone else just write because they love to write and don't care about the rest of it?

Yes! Damn you for outing me


To me the invitational is nothing more than the old high school clique reborn. I don't care for them. but at the same time I respect the time and effort the organizers put in to arrange them.

Is it right? To me nothing turns on it, it's a non-starter as an issue to me. I go into events when I want. I go into contests when I want. I post stories when I want.

Lit has given me a platform to test myself and try the ideas I want. I'm very grateful for that.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Lit has given me a platform to test myself and try the ideas I want. I'm very grateful for that.

^^^^^ This. It's an outlet I never considered until a few months ago. If you'd asked me a year ago if I had the skill to write any kind of fiction that someone would enjoy reading, I'd've told you I doubted it. If I'd been tasked with writing something fictional for the express purpose of someone enjoying it, I'd've likely failed. But I wrote something, realized I enjoyed that process and kept going. I'm trying to get better and write different (longer, more complicated) things, and I'm interested to see how that goes. It's fun, it's a way to pass the time, it's another learning experience.

 

[MetaBob]

Does anyone else just write because they love to write and don't care about the rest of it?

That's two questions, the second quite sprawling:

1. Does anyone else just write because they love to write[?]: I do, certainly.
2. and don't care about the rest of it?: Well ...

* I want it to be as good as I can make it.
* I think it would be really keen to do this for a living. A good living. I know the chances of that are slim, but I think I've improved as a writer enormously since starting to post stuff like what I post here 20 months ago. Even better than I was when my first novel went to auction.
* To that end, do I want to write for a contest? Well ... sometimes deadlines are good spurs to creativity. For example, if I had a hard deadline for finishing the first book of Senioritis, then I probably wouldn't be distracting myself by typing this right now. Duke Ellington was another big fan of deadlines.
* Do I care about ratings? Well, not really so much about them here. The process is fraught with the predilections of others, plus trolls and whatnot.
* I also use my writing here as an means to an end. I stretch myself using different constructions and voices. I explore what works better and not so well for me, and then I push on that until I think I'm making it work. I don't give a crap if that offends the sensibilities of purists. They're often wrong anyway, though I keep an open mind ("The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." - Socrates). I like to think that each of my pieces here comes from a different place, different inspirations, displays different idiosyncrasies, and helps me become a better writer while still entertaining.

Mostly I write what I write here because no one else is writing what I (think I) want to read here. I try to do it well.

I'm reviewing some of my older unfinished stuff that's not in this genre, a lot of which I thought had promise. The market for what's written here is fairly limited, after all.

 

[Bramblethorn]

This conversation is over for me.

NARRATOR: he lasted less than nine hours before continuing the conversation.

From the start I said everything is speculation and theory. Lawyers take on cases based on speculation and theory all the time.

Then you should have no trouble finding an example of a lawyer bringing a case about website contests under legislation written for radio stations. Do let us know when you find one.

You guys act as if I said, "This is the way it is." (Idiots. No wonder why people don't want some of you in their Invitational.)

Yes, that's definitely the reason why I didn't get invited to a contest run by somebody I don't know for a category I don't write in. You got me there. Ouch!

I guess this is why I also haven't been invited to join the Harlem Globetrotters or the Boston Philharmonic :-(

Read this, and you'll see how Telecommunications Laws are used to challenge the goings of of internet, and then maybe, just maybe, you'll get an idea of what the 'speculation & theory' mean.

https://www.******/telecommunication-law.html

Page says: "The Communications Decency Act of 1996 (CDA) was the first notable attempt by the United States Congress to regulate pornographic material on the Internet"

Huh. Wonder why they had to do that when there were already telecommunications laws like 18 USC 1464, covering radio and TV? Could it be that laws about "radio" don't apply to the Internet?

 

[Hypoxia]

Writing [1] for the fun of it and [2] to hell with all else?

[1] Nope, I write when my voices force me to start. It's fun enough once I get going altho anywhere from hours to years may pass before completion.
[2] I've stopped fretting over scores altho I don't mind Red-H's and I do value faves, follows, and any comments. I plan no venture into any marketplace -- writing would then be WORK (shudder).

I may time stories for contests, which boost attention to my back catalog. I may write for an author's event if my voices insist -- they haven't so far -- and I'm unsure whether an event would promote or demote me. Maybe my nefarious .alt should submit some trashy eyeball-grabbers. That'd be fun.

 

[TomorrowGent]

<i>Deleted</i>