Experienced CBT and electricity aficionados: thoughts/advices?

[DeservingBitch]

While buying food for my cats at my friendly neighbourhood pet-store, I saw those remote dog training collars that gives static shocks.

Is that pervertible? Could I use that around a dewd's balls? The one I've seen at my pet-store work with a battery transmitter of 9V and has 10 'correction levels'.

I've never played with electricity, and quite frankly, I don't know much about it. Barely anything really except a few readings here and there. Is it safe for me to play with such a collar? Any recommended readings? If I can safely play with that, any bad signs I should be keeping an eye for?

 

[chauderlos]

I don't have any experience in electo-play, but I have some in electricity.

Basically, the possible damage depends on intensity, amperage and duration of exposure to electric current.

Playing with a device with a 9V battery should - repeat should -be safe. Make sure the person does not have an heart condition before.

I'll check some references and come back at you later.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[Shankara20]

Playing with a device with a 9V battery should - repeat should -be safe. Make shure the person does not have an heart condition before.

I play with devices that use a 9V battery and find them safe, and I always keep zap play toys below my waist well away from my heart.



more questions? please ask


I do love zap play.

 

[nh23]

Talk to DVS.

I second that.

 

[DeservingBitch]

Thanks guys for the replies. I will try to get DVS attention.

Shank: I did figure that you would be one to like zap toys! Thanks for your input.

 

[DVS]

Well, of course it's pervertible. Those are never that much of a shock, because it would be cruel to the animal.

Now, by saying that I'm not telling you to just go whole hog at it without any controls. It's still a form of electricity and that is always something you must keep in mind. It's one of the safer forms of electrical current, though. Static current is the safest, because there is very little amperage to it. It's mostly voltage, which will get you the shock without the current traveling any further than you want it to.

DC current (direct current that is basically a battery) is the second most safe current. I'm not sure if this dog collar thing is actually static current or DC, but either way, you should be OK. And the fact that it has different levels of intensity, you will be able to experiment.

The thing to think about when playing with electrical toys is the fact that you can't see electricity. Well, if you go too far and you see smoke coming up from your body, you can tell the amplitude (volume) is too high. And, if we are talking about CBT play, the presence of smoke probably means you won't be having any children.

But, because you can't see it, and because you can sometimes get carried away with this kind of fun, you do need to watch how it affects your body tissue after a while. What I mean by that is...
Electricity has several parts. One part is voltage. Another is current. And another is resistance. The voltage is the shock you'll feel, in this case. The current is going to be how long the shock lasts. The more current, the more length of time in duration and also the more distance the electrical charge will travel through your body tissue.

You don't want a lot of current. When playing with electrical toys, current will cause your tissue to heat up, body fluids to sizzle and ultimately it will cause damage, resulting in blisters and burns.

Your body is the resistance. Depending on where the conducting electrodes are touching your body, the resistance could be very high, or it could be very low. The more of your body that the connection is spread out over, the more resistance there is. But, if you have a small point of connection and also a thin layer of skin like your testicles would be...it would be easier to cause damage. With this dog collar thing, the point of connection will be small, so you will need to watch it. The shock will be localized on those two contacts and nowhere else. Watch these areas for signs of too much current, until you know more about how much your body can take. Signs of damage and excessive fun are explained just below.

There is another part of this electrical play. It's a governor. A governor on any device is something that controls the ultimate levels so you can't go past a certain point. Many cars have governors on them, so you can't go over a certain RPM limit of the engine and damage it. Once you reach the limit of the governor, you simply can't go any further.

The governor in electrical play is your pain threshold. Now, your pain threshold isn't a perfect governor, because you can overpower someone's pain threshold, depending on who's at the controls. So, make sure you don't exceed the limits of your body too much. OK, a little exceeding isn't a bad thing, but caution is your friend.

If you do exceed your body's limits, you will probably see small water blisters in the area where the electrical connections were. This isn't a terrible thing, but it is a sign that you are probably having too much fun. It means you put more juice into your body tissue than it was able to handle. Does the word sizzle mean anything to you? The blisters are just the result and the body will heal.

Tone the intensity down a bit, or decrease the repetition of the shocks...or both. Another thing to try would be to move the electrodes to different places on the body, so one spot doesn't get all of the attention. You won't have to move the connections that much, and then you are back in business again. If just one spot gets all of the attention, it can burn out from having all of that fun...literally.

It won't be the end of your fun, if you get these water blisters. You just need to give your body time to heal, and you're back in business, again. And with the experience you then have from the settings being too high, you can tone those settings down, so your playtime is longer. It's a give and take. Keeping the settings within your body's tolerable levels, and you can have long sessions of fun. Get carried away, and you'll be spending all of your time letting your body heal.

I don't think you'll ever see burns, because that only comes from higher forms of current with longer lengths of time. But, if this dog collar allows you to send a continuous shock as long as you have the button pushed down, that has the potential of being too much. Not that you can't use it that way, but short durations will allow your body to handle the current without damage and you will still get the result you want.

Depending on how you alter this thing, I'd suggest finding a way to connect it to the base of the cock, and not on the testicles. You can involve the testicles, but because that tissue is more susceptible to damage, be careful. The tissue of the cock is more dense. The testicles also have more fluid inside, and fluid is liquid. Liquids and electricity like each other. But, too much electricity can heat fluids too, and then we have that damage we don't want.

Another fluid to think about is sweat. In fact, any moisture could increase the current of an electrical connection. So, if you are sweating, or if someone happens to pour a glass of cold water on you while you're tied up, the shock will probably be more intense, at a lower setting. Just keep this in mind. It's not a problem, but it is a factor when learning how your body will react to a certain amount of electrical current. You will reach your limit faster when any fluids are enhancing the connection.

Finding a way to connect this device so the two electrodes are touching the area of the body you want to um...stimulate would be the only problem you have. Because it's connected to a dog collar, you might see if you can remove it from that and maybe get some Velcro strips so you can wrap it around whatever. And, because you have 10 different intensity settings, you might find it pretty versatile. Always start off at a low setting. If nothing happens, SLOWLY increase the settings until you begin to feel it.

The basic rule of electrical play is keeping it away from your heart. Your heart beats because of a small electrical impulse, and if you interfere with that impulse, the heart could stop. I don't think I need to tell you how serious that could be.

TENS units have long leads that can be placed far apart and so they are more of an issue with above the waist play. Because of the distance the electrical current would travel from one lead to the other, if your heart is between these two leads, it's a bad thing.

But, the dog collar thing has its electrodes close together, somewhat like a cattle prod. So, the current flows a very short distance from one electrode to the other. It's only about an inch or so. Unless you really try, it's very difficult to hurt your heart with it. Just keep in mind where your heart is, when you connect the thing. There's no need to temp fate.

Well, I think I've done it again. I tend to talk a lot. I hope I haven't confused you more than you were before I started talking. And, if you are still confused, let me know. I can clarify what I've said here, if necessary. Just keep in mind that electroplay is a fun thing. The problem is usually when you get carried away, and think more about your enjoyment and less about how your body is affected. Just don't get carried away and I think you'll do just fine.

 

[myinnerslut]

DVS the electro wiz strikes again....

 

[bdsmbill]

Just a quick caution...

I have considerable experience with electroplay, including designing and building many devices from scratch. The caution I want to add isn't about safety -- dog collars are designed to be safe. After all, the collar company is going to get sued if their training collar fries little Muffy!

Nope, the caution I want to make is about potential pain levels. Are you a heavy player? Is your sub into some serious sensation?

The way electricity works is pretty straightforward. Pain happens when nerve endings send signals to the brain. Nerve endings come in several flavors that detect different things and send the info on. Some detect heat, some pressure, etc. If you stimulate a nerve enough to make it think damage is possible, it sends the warning -- pain -- to the brain. Electricity can force all of the kinds of nerve endings to fire their signals off to the brain even though they aren't being damaged. As a result, a lot of pain can be created without a lot of damage. Sounds good, huh?

How well a particular current makes the nerves fire is related to the voltage (pressure pushing the current), amperage (actual number of electron moving), and waveform. The waveform is the "shape" of a current that is varying. Technically, none of this is "static" electricity. Static means not moving. If you walk across a carpet in dry weather, your body can accumulate a static charge, but you don't feel it. Then you touch something that provides a ground and get a shock. The shock happens when the static charge moves, so it is no longer static.

Now, on to the reason for my warning. A well designed electroplay device with a good connection (get some electrogel) can fire pretty much all of the nerve endings in an area at the same time. When dealing with testicles, this can result in the "subject" feeling the exact same sensation he might have felt if the field goal kicker for an NFL team had connected perfectly with his nuts. The difference is that no damage is done to these little jewels, so you can do it again a few seconds later.

It's a potential field day for a sadist. Safe word? Have you ever been seriously kicked in the balls? You can't even really take a breath, much less speak a particular word. There is another interesting effect to consider. When a nerve ending fires, it enters a brief rest period (the refractory period) of a few seconds before it can fire again. At the end of this time there is an equally brief period of hypersensitivity.

If the operator knows what he/she is doing, shocks after the first can be timed to hit during the hypersensitive period. The practical result is that the feeling of intense, overwhelming pain the man experiences a second or two after that kicker connects becomes essentially continuous. He is frozen in that moment of ultimate pain. The subject will become rigid, mostly motionless, and unable to take a breath until the shocks cease. Erotic pain has become torture.

I haven't even talked about the penis, which contains far more nerve endings than the testicles. Just be careful. Start slowly, at minimal levels, and with 30 seconds or more between jolts. Turn up the level and shorten the interval gradually, as you get experience.

Now for the hands on part of the advice. Electricity needs two contact points. You will want to remove the points from the collar, since there is no good way to attach that to the naughty bits. I have found that a nice, smooth metal object coated in electrogel and inserted into the rectum is excellent as one contact point. The second one goes on the genitals. There are several good ways to do this. For example, put a coating of electrogel on some aluminum foil, wrap it tightly around the balls, and connect the second wire to that.

The wider the contact area, the less chance of burns at the contact point. The burns are caused by the higher resistance at that point, so the electrogel also helps. Several online suppliers sell it.

Oh, a final note -- there is a positive and negative terminal on the collar. They won't be marked, so you may have to experiment. The pain will be greater at one than at the other, and, naturally, you want the better one on the gonads. Play carefully, and keep the electrodes below the waist.

Bill (or Dr. Bill if you prefer)

 

[Netzach]

I've seen those used unaltered around the thigh on a healthy young male.
To rather interesting effect.

I personally would never ever use one above the beltline.

For testicular elecrtrocution play (ha!) I prefer the erostek. It's a pretty penny, but a very versatile instrument. You can be niiiiice or really pass anyone's tolerances I've ever met.

 

[Shankara20]

Thanks guys for the replies. I will try to get DVS attention.

Shank: I did figure that you would be one to like zap toys! Thanks for your input.

Pics available on request


I, as always bow to DVS in this matter - he is well versed in such matters - despite his reluctance to just zap zap on his own "equipment"

 

[DeservingBitch]

Well, of course it's pervertible.

Wow - thanks DVS for the very clear and detailed informations and advices.

 

[DeservingBitch]

Thank you Dr. BDSMBill for your input. Those are also very useful advices and informations.

 

[DeservingBitch]

I've seen those used unaltered around the thigh on a healthy young male.
To rather interesting effect.

Hmmm... that's a brilliant idea. Especially maybe as a way to start with that kind of play.

For testicular elecrtrocution play (ha!) I prefer the erostek. It's a pretty penny, but a very versatile instrument. You can be niiiiice or really pass anyone's tolerances I've ever met.

Yes, I'd like to eventually get one of those. Looks like so much fun. But for now, the dog collar is all that I can afford in terms of electrocution instruments. I should tell the boy to start saving...

 

[DeservingBitch]

Pics available on request

Well, I'll suggest a vote in favor of zap zap pics. Any one wants to second that?

 

[Shankara20]

Well, I'll suggest a vote in favor of zap zap pics. Any one wants to second that?

how 'bout I post a link to the pics in my thread so a not to shock (hee hee get it? "shock" - electro play? ) so as not to shock those that might be a little tenderhearted ?

 

[DVS]

When just starting out, leave the extreme pain levels alone. I'm sure you'll get sufficient satisfaction from the levels the dog collar can produce. But, even with its somewhat limited levels of stimulation, you can damage tissue. Always start with a low setting and slowly move on from there.

If you do want to alter the device, watch that you don't damage it. If your dollars are limited, be aware there are small wires and connections inside that can break. While I'm sure it's possible to alter this thing, unless you are careful, you can also break it.

Many mass produced products are made with fragile internal components that weren't intended to be pervertible. If you are the crafty sort with the knowledge of basic wiring and such, you will probably do OK. If you break a wire connection, with your crafty abilities you can probably fix it. But, if you don't have the crafty gene and you break something, then it's just broken.

I don't know how much this dog collar thing cost you, but not only does it have the shock component, but it also has the remote control unit. If you happen to damage either of these, without the knowledge to repair it, you're pretty much hosed. So, if you do attempt to open this thing up and convert it, I hope you're crafty. With reasonable care, you should be able to remove the device from the collar. Just don't get too cocky and mess it up.

Now, if you want to experiment with altering something, I'd suggest one of those cheap bug zapper rackets. I've purchased several in my area for less than $4 each. As is, they pack a pretty good zap, and if you want to alter it, you don't risk losing much, if you break it.

No, it doesn't have the remote control thing, but a length of good flexible stranded wire could be all you need to extend the push button controls to a location several feet away. If your victim is bound and helpless, he isn't going anywhere anyway, right? So the wireless aspect is just fluff. You can sit beside your victim quite nicely with controls in hand. Remove the basics from the racket and with some crafty skill and imagination, you might be able to make a pretty devious toy. Get it? Devious?

Of course, all safety rules are still necessary. Although the bug zapper might be cheap, it's still electricity. And no matter which device you mess with, don't venture above the waist unless you know what the hell you're doing and know how electrical current flows.

I can't say this more sincerely or clearly. While it is possible to play above the waist, ONLY with the correct safety devices and ONLY with the necessary electrical knowledge and understanding that goes with it. Quite simply said...if you don't know what you're doing, you have no business doing it.

Even with the necessary devices and knowledge, remember...YOU WON'T GET A SECOND CHANCE, IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE! Sure, there are those who know enough to do it safely, but unless you are one of those people, stick to the genital regions.

If you're a submissive with a dominant friend that wants to try this sort of thing with you, demand that they stick with below the waist play. Even if they say they know what they're doing, I'd be very cautious. It's easy to say you know what you're doing. It's another thing entirely to know what you're doing.

Play safe. Following all of the basic safety measures stated in this thread, staying below the waist should be enough fun for anybody. After all...isn't that were 99.9% of the most sensitive body parts are, anyway?
End of rant.

 

[DVS]

how 'bout I post a link to the pics in my thread so a not to shock (hee hee get it? "shock" - electro play? ) so as not to shock those that might be a little tenderhearted ?

These pictures don't show panties with hairy legs, do they? I just can't stand to see pretty panties on hairy legs. Kinky electroplay is one thing. But satin, ruffles and coarse body hair just shouldn't be seen together.


OK, call me squeamish, if you want. Or, is that squimish?

 

[Shankara20]

These pictures don't show panties with hairy legs, do they? I just can't stand to see pretty panties on hairy legs. Kinky electroplay is one thing. But satin, ruffles and coarse body hair just shouldn't be seen together.


OK, call me squeamish, if you want. Or, is that squimish?

nope - no panties at all
hairy legs - in fact all sorts of naked hairy body parts
but no panties






this time.

 

[DeservingBitch]

When just starting out, leave the extreme pain levels alone. I'm sure you'll get sufficient satisfaction from the levels the dog collar can produce. But, even with its somewhat limited levels of stimulation, you can damage tissue. Always start with a low setting and slowly move on from there.

If you do want to alter the device, watch that you don't damage it. If your dollars are limited, be aware there are small wires and connections inside that can break. While I'm sure it's possible to alter this thing, unless you are careful, you can also break it.

Many mass produced products are made with fragile internal components that weren't intended to be pervertible. If you are the crafty sort with the knowledge of basic wiring and such, you will probably do OK. If you break a wire connection, with your crafty abilities you can probably fix it. But, if you don't have the crafty gene and you break something, then it's just broken.

I don't know how much this dog collar thing cost you, but not only does it have the shock component, but it also has the remote control unit. If you happen to damage either of these, without the knowledge to repair it, you're pretty much hosed. So, if you do attempt to open this thing up and convert it, I hope you're crafty. With reasonable care, you should be able to remove the device from the collar. Just don't get too cocky and mess it up.

Now, if you want to experiment with altering something, I'd suggest one of those cheap bug zapper rackets. I've purchased several in my area for less than $4 each. As is, they pack a pretty good zap, and if you want to alter it, you don't risk losing much, if you break it.

No, it doesn't have the remote control thing, but a length of good flexible stranded wire could be all you need to extend the push button controls to a location several feet away. If your victim is bound and helpless, he isn't going anywhere anyway, right? So the wireless aspect is just fluff. You can sit beside your victim quite nicely with controls in hand. Remove the basics from the racket and with some crafty skill and imagination, you might be able to make a pretty devious toy. Get it? Devious?

Of course, all safety rules are still necessary. Although the bug zapper might be cheap, it's still electricity. And no matter which device you mess with, don't venture above the waist unless you know what the hell you're doing and know how electrical current flows.

I can't say this more sincerely or clearly. While it is possible to play above the waist, ONLY with the correct safety devices and ONLY with the necessary electrical knowledge and understanding that goes with it. Quite simply said...if you don't know what you're doing, you have no business doing it.

Even with the necessary devices and knowledge, remember...YOU WON'T GET A SECOND CHANCE, IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE! Sure, there are those who know enough to do it safely, but unless you are one of those people, stick to the genital regions.

If you're a submissive with a dominant friend that wants to try this sort of thing with you, demand that they stick with below the waist play. Even if they say they know what they're doing, I'd be very cautious. It's easy to say you know what you're doing. It's another thing entirely to know what you're doing.

Play safe. Following all of the basic safety measures stated in this thread, staying below the waist should be enough fun for anybody. After all...isn't that were 99.9% of the most sensitive body parts are, anyway?
End of rant.

Thanks again for all your advices and informations.

 

[chauderlos]

There is, of course, not a lot to add to DVS and Dr BDSMBill posts. They have an extensive practical knowledge on this matter I only have theoretically.

I won't bore you with Mr Ohm and his law. But still, here are a few more inputs you might find useful.

Under dry conditions, the human body can hold up to 50 V (that's average for someone weighting about 50 kg – 110 lbs). But when playing, your partner's skin might quite possibly become sweaty, hence lessening the resistance of the body. So I would suggest not using any power source above 12V.

Oh, and regarding possible heart damage, I'm pretty sure it can be caused only by alternative current. And the current you get from a battery is direct. But this doesn't mean there is no risk at all, so as others said, play safely, exercise caution. Have fun.

 

[bdsmbill]

Danger, Danger, Danger!

Please be careful with electricity. Alternating current and direct current are both potentially dangerous. Both can kill you. In addition, the input type of electricity does not tell you what the output might be. A dog collar may be powered by a 9 volt battery, which is direct current, but the output may be MUCH higher voltage and may be alternating current. That's what the electronics do.

As another example, your computer may be plugged into 120 volts AC, but, internally it runs on a variety of voltages (12, 5, 1.7, and more), and these are DC. The power supply makes the conversion.

The danger with above-the-waist use is timing. Lots of electricians will recount to you the dozens of times they have been zapped, without ill effects. I have had them tell me they are "used" to it and it doesn't bother them. Rubbish! It is all timing. If the shock (even a pretty small one) reaches the heart at exactly the right instant in the cycle, it disrupts the heart's rhythm and ventricular fibrillation is the result. At that point CPR won't help you. You need an EMT standing by with those paddles and shouting, "CLEAR."

Any single shock that passes through the heart is unlikely to kill you, no matter how big it is. The majority of people survive getting struck by lightning. Just don't bet your life on it... Keep it below the waist. That's where the action is, anyway.

Bill

 

[intothewoods]

These pictures don't show panties with hairy legs, do they? I just can't stand to see pretty panties on hairy legs. Kinky electroplay is one thing. But satin, ruffles and coarse body hair just shouldn't be seen together.


OK, call me squeamish, if you want. Or, is that squimish?

Hmph. Some people!