Exercise: Descriptions without adjectives.

[Linbido]

Birthday party. Cloud cover. Picture book. Swim fins...

Somebody help me!

garden gate, milk shake, snow shovel, water cannon, oboe reed...

Pub night? Beer glass? Pint heaving? Foam lip?
Oh, just have a cold one, fer chrissake!

 

[champagne1982]

It's perfectly okay for a noun to modify a noun. Summer shower. Knock-out punch. Championship game. Baby shoes. I don't know if you call then anything special though.

We need Angeline or Weird Harold or some other language maven. Language maven.

---dr.M.

Doc, I never said it wasn't okay! I just said that when a noun modifies a noun, the modifying noun (aka modifier) is an adjective; the same way as if the noun modifies a verb, the modifier is an adverb. The purpose of the exercise was to write a description without using adjectives, thus, the only thing wrong, in the context of this thread, with that sample, was the presence of adjectives.

 

[champagne1982]

Can We talk about Religion or Politics now? One should never mix Booze with Grammar.

. . . edited to correct a punctuation error! Mustn't have those! No, no!

 

[Guest]

Crap, I do give a fuck after all.

Carrie, a noun is a noun, it can't be something else grammatically. If it modifies another noun it only "acts" adjectivally; it does not nor will it ever become an adjective.

Nouns, verbs, etc. - the major parts of speech - are like species; they do not turn into other species/parts of speech.

Perdita

(I'll have a gin and tonic.)

 

[champagne1982]

Chuckling . . .

and only schlurring a lil bit. Ah! Schemantics.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Crap, I do give a fuck after all.

Carrie, a noun is a noun, it can't be something else grammatically. If it modifies another noun it only "acts" adjectivally; it does not nor will it ever become an adjective.

Nouns, verbs, etc. - the major parts of speech - are like species; they do not turn into other species/parts of speech.

Perdita

(I'll have a gin and tonic.)

But verbs act like nouns when they're gerunds, as in Walking is good exercise.

And participles: : a word having the characteristics of both verb and adjective; especially : an English verbal form that has the function of an adjective and at the same time shows such verbal features as tense and voice and capacity to take an object .

A little cross-breeding in the parts of speech.

---dr.M.

 

[Icingsugar]

Can We talk about Religion or Politics now? One should never mix Booze with Grammar.[/size]

That's when grammar gets interresting. I believe that any grammar that isn't practiced after that tenth pint is to be considered redundant and forgotten.

Bring on the brewski.

 

[Guest]

A little cross-breeding in the parts of speech.

I said it, now you said it, Mab. The key is "act like". Let's call it cross-dressing vs. cross-breeding.

Perdita

 

[raphy]

My head hurts now. MIne's a double whiskey. Jameson's. Straight up. No ice.

 

[champagne1982]

Defined in English as spoken in the United States of America

The New International Webster's Pocket Dictionary of the English Language Trident Press International 2001 Edition
ad'-jec-tive n. in grammar, a word that modifies a noun, as by color, size, location, etc.; a clause or phrase used as an adjective --adj. pertaining to or functioning as an adjective.

 

[Guest]

Raff, sweets, you always seem to get a headached at these intensely grammatical moments. What the hell kind of writer are you, hombre?

'dita

 

[Guest]

Carrie, puhleeaze. A pocket dictionary? Have some champagne.

Perdita

 

[raphy]

Raff, sweets, you always seem to get a headached at these intensely grammatical moments. What the hell kind of writer are you, hombre?

'dita

Err.. an instinctive, intuitive by-the-seat-of-my-pants kinda writer. I just write. Sometimes it sounds good. (And of course, sometimes it doesn't)

Don't ask me what the technical terms are though.

On a less glib note - I really don't know very much about the technical aspects of grammar. However I think I do know what's right and what's not, and I know which rules I'm breaking when I break them (in my inimitable cyberpunk style) ...

But I couldn't tell you what any of 'em are called.

edit:

It's kinda like the way I play guitar. I've been playing for near 20 years, and there's virtually nothing I can't do with a guitar. However, when it comes to the finer points of musical theory, I couldn't tell you exactly *what* I'm playing. I just know it sounds good.

Example: (For the musically inclined, anyway. The rest of you may want to skip this bit)

There's a song that I wrote ages ago. In it, there's a nice progression in it that runs G#m, C#m, Fdim, A ... I was informed only a few years ago what the Fdim was, and why it fitted with the other chords.

I had no idea.what it was or why it fitted. I just knew it sounded good.

 

[champagne1982]

Carrie, puhleeaze. A pocket dictionary? Have some champagne.

Perdita

'Twas the nearest t'hand that spoke 'mercan. At least I used one!

I only drink champagne when it's terribly expensive! Doesn't that mean it's very good?

P.s. The bumpersticker found on my Webster's: My other dictionary's an Oxford Concise.

 

[raphy]

'Twas the nearest t'hand. At least I used one!

I only drink champagne when it's terribly expensive! Doesn't that mean it's very good?

It's a very old English custom, and a stimluant for the brain
When you feel a little weary, a cup'll make you cheery
And it's cheaper than champagne
-- Everything Stops For Tea, Noel Coward (maybe?)

Raph, big band swing fan

 

[Seattle Zack]

Can't seem to locate my Gregg Manual, unfortunately, so one of my lesser tomes will have to do (Elements of Grammar):

Nouns as adjectives:

a. A noun can be used to qualify (or describe) another noun, as in goose feathers, in which case there are no comparative or superlative forms such as "gooser" or "goosest."
Metal robot

b. Some nouns can be made into an adjective by adding an ending such as -ish, -like, -ly, -y, -en, -al, -ar, -ory.
Childish behavior

A proper adjective is a descriptive adjective formed from a proper noun:
American film

Many common proper adjectives have lost their capitalization due to usage:
chili sauce
platonic love
french fry

 

[Guest]

I only drink champagne when it's terribly expensive! Doesn't that mean it's very good?

Carrie, It's what too many people go by. I had lots a while back (I mean drinking nothing but for about 7 hours one party) and had not the slightest headache next day, only very thirsty. My hostess said the bottles were about $20 each.

Perdita

 

[MathGirl]

Hurray!

But verbs act like nouns when they're gerunds, as in Walking is good exercise.

Dear Dr M,
Thank you so much for mentioning GERUNDS. They have been sadly neglected around here lately.
MG

 

[Pure]

Perdita said,

//Carrie, a noun is a noun, it can't be something else grammatically. If it modifies another noun it only "acts" adjectivally; it does not nor will it ever become an adjective.

Nouns, verbs, etc. - the major parts of speech - are like species; they do not turn into other species/parts of speech.//

I see no reason to take this approach: It says essentially, a given word IS a noun, without reference to any sentence. How in the world would one ever tell such a thing? Is it just statistics? In 90% of sentences a given word is a noun? The rest of the time it 'acts' otherwise?

Consider "roast". Is this 'really' a noun? That 'acts' like an adjective in "roast pork." Why not say it's 'really' a verb, that sometimes 'acts' like a noun or adjective? If in 50% of all sentences, 'roast' is noun, does that mean the other uses are 'acting' or 'as if'.

I don't think the major parts of speech--as applied to specific words-- 'are like species'; you can tell a cat, by looking at a cat. Its characteristics. You can NOT tell noun, verb or adjective looking at 'roast', there's NOT an essence, NOT something 'on its face', like the word 'roast' has five letters.

In English, clearly 'dog' is *most often* employed as a noun. I see no reason to say it's 'really' a noun, and that the verb is an 'as if'; sort of a 'dress up.' You can say a person used a rock as a hammer, acting as a hammer, because you can specify 'rock' independently. Not so with 'roast.'

If one takes French, a noun is marked by le or la. We CAN say,
'le dernier' is a noun. 'Dernier' is an adjective.

Getting back to English: What is 'river'? adjective sometimes acting like a noun or noun sometimes acting like an adjective? Seems a pointless question. Only in a sentence. "It lay in the river bed." can the question make any sense.

Given that a 'noun' is the name of a person, place, or thing, how can one apply that outside of a context, i.e., sentence? Looking at 'river' is it such a name? How does one know?

A verb is a part of speech that predicates. How would one tell if 'roast' predicates where there is no sentence, nothing else to predicate of?

The thread arose from an idea about eliminating or minimizing adjectives; to answer requires understanding sentence parts, and as Champagne said, what word is describing the character, sort or number of another.

J.

 

[Pure]

Here is a not bad online reference for grammatical terms

http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary.html

J.

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

When John strode into the room, Melissa cowered away.
He flicked on the CD for _Das Hammerklavier_ as she
put down her piccolo.
"Since you like music," he said.
The table in front of the speaker was jumping, and Melissa
sympathised.
"Join me," John said as he sat down and began to gorge
himself.
"I'm not hungry."
"Join me!" he ordered.
She took a spoonful of broccoli from the bowl. She nibbled
at it.
"Have some roast beef," he said, slicing her a juicy slab.
|
Okay. There are still a few adjectives, mostly articles.
And what I avoided was mostly adverbs. But that gives an
example of one way of avoiding modifiers without making
the scene vague. Use nouns (and verbs) which convey the
picture without the modifier. I could have got around
juicy with a little thought.

 

[gauchecritic]

The thread arose from an idea about eliminating or minimizing adjectives; to answer requires understanding sentence parts,
J.

Wrong again.

The thread (however confusingly or nebulously) arose from an idea of simply describing a physical object by reference to its history (real or imagined) rather than its appearance.

Icing joined in without, self-confessed, intimate knowledge of adjectives. Then the hijackers walked into the cockpit and without regard for human life began shooting.

The rest as they say...

Gauche

 

[Pure]

Hi, Gauche,

OK, the thread is just as you say. Talking of adjectives is 'hijacking.' ** Also the thread may well be dead or for partying.

I'd best to start another.

J.

Uther, please come over with your example.

**Thread title: Exercise: Descriptions without adjectives. Must've misread it.

 

[MathGirl]

there's virtually nothing I can't do with a guitar.

Dear r,
There are a few thing we would all enjoy seeing you try.
MG

 

[Guest]

Dear r,
There are a few thing we would all enjoy seeing you try.
MG

Raphy, just make sure you post those pics.

Lou