Evolution vs Creation

[Shy Tall Guy]

Anyway, your comment is out of context. Evolution has nothing to say about the creation of the universe, only about the development of living species. Evolution could care less if God made everything or not.

Agreed. My personal belief is that God put in motion the universe and all its natural laws, including evolution.

 

[Lasher]

that's just part of the arguement, besides why didnt the bible mention anything prehistoric when it talked about the history?

I think that's kinda what PRE-historic means.

 

[metal_minx]

I think that's kinda what PRE-historic means.

that's why i just went back and erased that comment, it sounded stupid

 

[Black_Bird]

I'm not saying God exists, I'm just saying we can't prove it doesn't.

It doesn't matter either way. Either way we have to live in this world and make the best of it; it's odd how we dwell upon the big world shattering truths when we should be concentrating on the little every day truths.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Between evolution and creation, I side with evolution. It's the obvious answer.

Between Higher Being(s) and the Big Bang, I find it pointless to debate it. We will never be able solve it one way or the other. If all matter could have at one time been contained in something the size of a spec of sand, then all matter could have been created as it is and all the systems designed to look like they came from a spec of sand.

As much as I hate to use absolutes, given the physical laws of the universe and the evidence, no it would not have been possible to create the universe wholesale. Sure from a philosophical point of view wholesale creation is possible, but what would be the point? Why would a God that is trying to impart truth, create the universe in such a way that all the visible evidence leads an intelligent entity to believe it was create a completely different way? To what end? To decieve?

It is not necessary anyway - as I stated above, there is really nothing of substance in the Bible, where it speaks to creation, that contradicts the physical evidence. The Bible is very vague on the subject and very open to interpretation.

 

[metal_minx]

It doesn't matter either way. Either way we have to live in this world and make the best of it; it's odd how we dwell upon the big world shattering truths when we should be concentrating on the little every day truths.

it's much easier to dwell in the realm of the metaphysical than to think about the real life problems that face you every day

 

[driver775]

CREATION vs evolution

Hi family. I have been sitting here bitting my tongue and I am tired of it bleeding, so here are my educated 2 cents worth.
First of all, Aryans were invaders of India from the North and were caucasoid, they weren't from there. ( if one keeps mouth shut then no one will know that he is a FOOL )
Second), Darwin before his death denounced evolution, he said more correctly that it is adaptation to a given environ.
Third) Science is based mainly on about 90% faith, not fact. Most theories have NEVER been proven. The ones that have are of a short term view. ( sorry, but I am not going to explain geology and archeological terms right now, but I will put it in laymans terms as much as possible)
Fourth) Louis Leaky ( inventer of lucy) was a fraud and ALL scientist in ALL the Earth sciences know this. He used the jaw bone of an ass to help piece together Lucy and clay and imagination for the rest. He had roughly 27% of a scull from an ancient ape to use to make Lucy. Lucy was and is the basis for ALL partial skeletal reconstuctions and there has NEVER been a complete skeletal remain found of any missing links etc... And remember Lucy was a FRAUD, a HOAX. And they teach this crap in schools.
In geology and archeology we base dating on an EXTREMELY INACCURATE method of carbon dating. Okay, everyone who knows what this is raise your hand. Dont worry there wont be a test on Friday

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Isn't it odd that Creationism and some form of Racial Supremacy always go hand in hand?

Do they?

 

[Black_Bird]

it's much easier to dwell in the realm of the metaphysical than to think about the real life problems that face you every day

Yes, but solving the problems we face everyday have a much deeper impact on all our lives.

 

[SlowHand89]

SlowHand89:
"How could God explain the creation of the universe to a bunch of people who have just learned how to write?"

Yeah. He should have given that nowledge to us literete Americans in stead of all those Semantics in Hong Kong, or where ever.

LOL
Fuck I'm slow. I'm only getting that now. lol

 

[Jedi_Outcast]

Re: CREATION vs evolution

Third) Science is based mainly on about 90% faith, not fact. Most theories have NEVER been proven. The ones that have are of a short term view. ( sorry, but I am not going to explain geology and archeological terms right now, but I will put it in laymans terms as much as possible)

and religion is 100% faith, I fail to see the distiction between your version of faith and mine.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

*

Do you wish an explanation? The original Hebrew scriptures do allow for inteterminate periods of time that can be anything from days to billions of years.

 

[metal_minx]

Re: CREATION vs evolution

Hi family. I have been sitting here bitting my tongue and I am tired of it bleeding, so here are my educated 2 cents worth.
First of all, Aryans were invaders of India from the North and were caucasoid, they weren't from there. ( if one keeps mouth shut then no one will know that he is a FOOL )
Second), Darwin before his death denounced evolution, he said more correctly that it is adaptation to a given environ.
Third) Science is based mainly on about 90% faith, not fact. Most theories have NEVER been proven. The ones that have are of a short term view. ( sorry, but I am not going to explain geology and archeological terms right now, but I will put it in laymans terms as much as possible)
Fourth) Louis Leaky ( inventer of lucy) was a fraud and ALL scientist in ALL the Earth sciences know this. He used the jaw bone of an ass to help piece together Lucy and clay and imagination for the rest. He had roughly 27% of a scull from an ancient ape to use to make Lucy. Lucy was and is the basis for ALL partial skeletal reconstuctions and there has NEVER been a complete skeletal remain found of any missing links etc... And remember Lucy was a FRAUD, a HOAX. And they teach this crap in schools.
In geology and archeology we base dating on an EXTREMELY INACCURATE method of carbon dating. Okay, everyone who knows what this is raise your hand. Dont worry there wont be a test on Friday

ignoring the aryan stuff....
i really really hope you're joking otherwise i'm gonna have to beat you over the head with a tire iron

 

[Jedi_Outcast]

carbon dating explained:

Carbon 14 (C14) is an isotope of carbon with 8 neutrons instead of the more common 6 neutrons. It is unstable, and scientists know that it radioactively decays by electron emission to Nitrogen 14, with a half life of 5730 years. This means that given a statistically large sample of carbon 14, we know that if we sit it in a box, go away, and come back in 5730 years, half of it will still be carbon 14, and the other half will have decayed.

Or in other words, if we have a box, and we don't know how old it is but we know it started with 100 carbon 14 atoms, and we open it and find only 50 carbon 14 atoms and some other stuff, we could say, "Aha! It must be 1 carbon 14 half-life (or 5730 years) old." This is the basic idea behind carbon dating.

This technique is best for dating items which died between on the order of 1000 to on the order of 1,000,000 years ago.

which is well within the limits of human evolution, not enough to prove lucy but certainly to prove cro-magnon etc.

GOOGLE is your friend.

 

[metal_minx]

there are other, even more accurate tests than carbon 14 or 12 dating...damn where is my anthropology book when i need it!

 

[Desert Amazon]

Re: CREATION vs evolution

 

[Susano]

Do you wish an explanation? The original Hebrew scriptures do allow for inteterminate periods of time that can be anything from days to billions of years.

The time periods I won't argue with. But evolution by survival of the fittest demands something--non-survival of the unfit. If nobody died before Adam and Eve got fruity, how'd they evolve? (Nota bene-I'm not preaching creation, just the incompatibility of literal Bible belief and evolution.)
For the "quark soup for the big bang/dimensional involution for the superstring big bang/etc. had to come from somewhere, so God must have created it" argument, you do realize you're simply pushing the conundrum back one more level, right? I find it much simpler to believe that a universe which follows the laws we've found, set in motion by some means we might eventually find or at least approach came spontaneously into being or has always existed, than that a being of completely inexplicable infinite power came spontaneously into being or has always existed.
And if you can follow that last run-on sentence, you get a gold star.

 

[driver775]

part II

Truth and Fact: Science is based on faith more so than the ancient Jewish beliefs and the offspring thereof Christianity.
These are spiritual beliefs, not religions. Religion is a form of control over a populace to have power and/or money which pretty much go hand in hand.
Jesus Christ never said to go out and make a new religion as the Catholics did (if you can't beat em, fool em and get em to joinya. that way their belief will be dilluted)
Jesus did say " I am the way and the truth and the light."
The apostles did not write their writtings hundreds of years later. The Epistles were written only 20 -30 years later and Luke although not an actual witness spent part of his life interviewing people that were on the scene. By the way Luke was a very educated man. The Myth to Moses not existing is just that, a myth made up by a person who is a very unhappy person. My memory is not recalling the persons, but I do remember the two main people to start that crap and they aren't even very educated, and have NO expertice in anthropology, archeology, geology, or any other science for that matter. Scientists admit to big bang and evolution as being EXTEMELY and highly improbable. The odds are aprox 1 in 57 to the 80 trillionth power. Even a gambling addict wouldn't take those odds. Your calculator wont go that high so don't try. just imagine a shit load of zeros ok. Look around you when you go out into the woods and STOP to THINK. An accident in the universe? The Bible does not attempt to explain inscientific terms the way the Earth was made, it doesn't even put a date on it. Before you ridicule me go read and study it and then come back and we will talk. Do I believe in God and Christ Jesus ? Tes I do, but it is not out of tatal blind faith as science is. It is partially because of my education that I came to believe in the God and Christ Jesus of the Bible. Whew. I have written enough for now. If you choose to deny the truth, that is your choice. No prob. But think are you doing this out of rebellion or lack of wisdom and knowledge. Well with wisdom and Knowledge I guess you wouldn't rebel against a truth of absolute forgiveness. Damn I wish I would have taken computers in school instead. I could use this one a lot better . ya all have a good night and may God bless your path in life.

 

[Jedi_Outcast]

Re: part II

Scientists admit to big bang and evolution as being EXTEMELY and highly improbable. The odds are aprox 1 in 57 to the 80 trillionth power. Even a gambling addict wouldn't take those odds. Your calculator wont go that high so don't try. just imagine a shit load of zeros ok.

cite your source please.

the big bang may be highly improbable, but if you have infinite time (as we understand it), then it becomes a certanty.

 

[dreamer]

I do not believe they are mutually exclusive in ANY way. So my answer is both.

Oh and Science isn't based on faith...it is based on agreed upon assumptions. IF the assumptions are true ALL following statements are 100% fact. The faith only comes in on the agreed upon assumptions. It is the goal of a scientist (Mathematician in my case) to make those assumptions so basic, and fundamental that they are beyond reproach to everyone.

It is this last statement that causes two things to happen.

1. Some people don't have the intellectual sophistication to understand the basal nature of those assumptions. NOTE: This is in no way an attempt to take higher ground on intellectual/educational terms. There are MOUNTAINS of theory, I have yet to wrap my mind around...but lets face it the average public is not the smartest group. (actually by definition--average)

2. People become inflexable in their 'faith.' By this I mean they take a fundamentalist view of things religious and somehow make a mental leap to the idea that anything that doesn't fit into that mold is inherently evil and beyond consideration.

I consider myself a fairly intelligent person. I also am keenly aware of my failures and shortcomings (recently moreso than ever) I also consider myself fairly religious. The two combined have at times made it difficult to associate with either 'group.'

I have however come to the conclusion that if I do believe (which I do) that belief DESERVES intense scrutiny and thought. This is something I have done and will continue to do in matters of religion and otherwise hopefully as long as I live.

 

[celiaKitten]

This thread is funny.

 

[metal_minx]

Re: part II

Truth and Fact: Science is based on faith more so than the ancient Jewish beliefs and the offspring thereof Christianity.
These are spiritual beliefs, not religions. Religion is a form of control over a populace to have power and/or money which pretty much go hand in hand.
Jesus Christ never said to go out and make a new religion as the Catholics did (if you can't beat em, fool em and get em to joinya. that way their belief will be dilluted)
Jesus did say " I am the way and the truth and the light."
The apostles did not write their writtings hundreds of years later. The Epistles were written only 20 -30 years later and Luke although not an actual witness spent part of his life interviewing people that were on the scene. By the way Luke was a very educated man. The Myth to Moses not existing is just that, a myth made up by a person who is a very unhappy person. My memory is not recalling the persons, but I do remember the two main people to start that crap and they aren't even very educated, and have NO expertice in anthropology, archeology, geology, or any other science for that matter. Scientists admit to big bang and evolution as being EXTEMELY and highly improbable. The odds are aprox 1 in 57 to the 80 trillionth power. Even a gambling addict wouldn't take those odds. Your calculator wont go that high so don't try. just imagine a shit load of zeros ok. Look around you when you go out into the woods and STOP to THINK. An accident in the universe? The Bible does not attempt to explain inscientific terms the way the Earth was made, it doesn't even put a date on it. Before you ridicule me go read and study it and then come back and we will talk. Do I believe in God and Christ Jesus ? Tes I do, but it is not out of tatal blind faith as science is. It is partially because of my education that I came to believe in the God and Christ Jesus of the Bible. Whew. I have written enough for now. If you choose to deny the truth, that is your choice. No prob. But think are you doing this out of rebellion or lack of wisdom and knowledge. Well with wisdom and Knowledge I guess you wouldn't rebel against a truth of absolute forgiveness. Damn I wish I would have taken computers in school instead. I could use this one a lot better . ya all have a good night and may God bless your path in life.

you're a fucking idiot if you believe that all the science that backs up secular theories about creation is untrue

 

[metal_minx]

Fourth) Louis Leaky ( inventer of lucy) was a fraud and ALL scientist in ALL the Earth sciences know this. He used the jaw bone of an ass to help piece together Lucy and clay and imagination for the rest. He had roughly 27% of a scull from an ancient ape to use to make Lucy. Lucy was and is the basis for ALL partial skeletal reconstuctions and there has NEVER been a complete skeletal remain found of any missing links etc... And remember Lucy was a FRAUD, a HOAX. And they teach this crap in schools.

you are so full of shit i can smell it from here!

invented lucy? well first of all he didnt find the 'lucy' skeleton it was another team at a nearby site AND though lucy is one of the best skeletons found she is only one of hundreds of at least 10 different species of prehuman...our ancestors

the remains are scattered an incomplete yes...so are most remains that are that old, its rare to find fossils of anything let alone a few species with links to humans

you are a complete retard (no offense to mentally challenged people)

 

[Susano]

Re: Re: part II

cite your source please.

the big bang may be highly improbable, but if you have infinite time (as we understand it), then it becomes a certanty.

I second that. Evangelists of all stripes love to quote unsourced statistics. Another favorite I've heard several times is "Less than the chances of a tornado in a junkyard turning out a 747" or some variation of that, like a jeep or bus. Seems like that would be prohibitively difficult to calculate anything close to. I've never heard any more reliable source for any such statistic than "somebody," though.

 

[Jedi_Outcast]

calm down minxie, you are just giving him what he wants. Fight his "christian science" with real science.

I doubt anyone will change his mind, and getting all worked up doesn't do anything except piss you off and turn him on.