Everything I needed to know about writing, I learned from BSG .. and Torchwood

BlackShanglan

Silver-Tongued Papist
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No, quite seriously. One actually useful thing I've done while away was to come up with this concept for expanding my understanding of writing: compare the very best and the very worst I could think of and see what I learned from it. I'm working on screenwriting, so TV shows were a good choice for me, and I'd long lamanted the staggering gap in quality between the stellar (ha ha) "Battlestar Galactica" and the comically lame "Torchwood," on which the SO and I regularly make wagers as to which character will have the most wincingly stupid lines or actions each week and what they will be. (Owen's lengthy digression on the local history of fairies is still the hands-down winner.)

At any rate - my goodness, it was delightful! I dug out all sorts of nuggets to scamper back to my horde with. I become so excited that I even ended sentences with prepositions. But truly, it was a month's education in an afternoon. I recommend it to anyone. And the beauty is that whatever you like to write and however you like to write it, it's guaranteed to show you how to do what you want to do, because you get to pick what's the best and what's the worst.

If you're deeply bored, or even better, you're eager to become deeply bored, here are a few gleanings from it:

1) Character-defining tensions. This was my favorite "click" moment. What really stood out in the characterization in BSG was the manner in which they'd built so many characters with central, defining internal conflicts that made them continually capable of both growth and consistency. Adama is both a soldier and a man deeply concerned with doing the right thing. Instant, constant conflict, fruitful conflict that deepens the character at every turn. Ditto too many other characters to list, including even the villains - who are so much more compelling for having depth. These tensions are what let the characters grow and develop and capture me throughout the whole series, unlike the Torchwood crew who can barely make it through an episode without seeming either wooden or schizophrenic. They swing between having only one very simplistic persona and multiple, completely inchoate ones.

I loved this one. It instantly fixed my screenplay in flux. The priest was being a massive nuisance until I realized that this was the problem. He only had one aspect to his character. As soon as I realized that he needed the other, I saw what it was and how I'd been an idiot not to have noticed it before. Yeesh. It was all right there.

2) Motiveless villains are silly. Really. Truly. "Torchwood" is the textbook example for this. The most powerful villain is the world is just silly if his only motive is "because I'm insanely eeeevilll!" He could just as easily have attacked another planet, or every planet, or a dust bunny. The more powerful the villain becomes, the more silly it gets if the motives make no sense. BSG shines in comparison; even when they're out to wipe out the human race, it's impossible to deny that the Cylons often have good reason for it. That's scary, because then you know how difficult it would be to make them stop.

3) Whatever you are, you are. Throughout. The SO and I save some of our sharpest derision for the scenes in "Torchwood" in which we are painfully reminded that Owen is allegedly a medical doctor. We mock this incessantly because the only time it's ever apparent is when they dress him in a gown and put a scalpel in his hand, and even then he just looks like an idiot at a costume party. Nothing else about the character ever reflects this aspect of him. His vocabularly, his history, his bearing, his focus of attention - none of them suggest it until the plotline demands a doctor. Then it's laughable because the man has absolutely no reason in the world to be a doctor. Dragging in a third show, "House" is a good contrast; it's a show full of doctors, and every one of them has an individual, different, and identifiable reason for being a doctor.

BSG stands out nicely in contrast because its characters are whatever they are 24/7 and in every scene. It's obvious why an impulsive hothead like Kara Thrace is a fighter pilot, and it's obvious whether she's flying or playing cards. It's obvious, too, why an at heart highly idealistic man like Helo is a soldier - for very different reasons, and reasons that we can see in every scene from his home life to his missions. We know their motives not because they spend 30 seconds explaining them just once in that episode because someone needed to be a veterinarian for the plot to work, but because in small, show-not-tell ways, they are that every episode, consistently.

4) For the love of God. Show. Don't tell. It only takes a couple of agonizing rounds of watching Captain Jack blow a perfectly good scene by opening his mouth ... ooh. Sorry, that was a distracting image, wasn't it? But honestly. There are times when one wants to scream at the screen, "Shut UP! For God's sake, man, shut up!" Take the episode "Meat," in which they discover a still-living, gruesomely mutilated whale-alien people have been carving pieces off of to sell as meat. Jack walks up with an agonized look on his face and embraces the side of the suffering creature. And Shanglan and the SO wince, because they know that he just can't leave it at that. Alone, the gesture would be perfect - but no, he has to open his mouth and thump out, "Oh, my friend! What have they done to you?" From drama to melodrama in 2 seconds flat.

Compare that to Adama in BSG, having given a particularly distasteful order regarding the treatment of a prisoner. He doesn't blather on in some purply speech about the agonizing pain of balancing his sense of moral right against the duty he has to the lives in his care. In fact, he doesn't say anything. He simply stays in the room and watches, weary and bleak, as his orders are carrried out. He says nothing; the expression, and the mere fact that he won't let himself leave and avoid the reality of the actions, say it all beautifully.

So. That's my blather for tonight. Slice it up into bits and you'll have enough words to cover a few dozen posts a day since I was last here.

Shanglan
 
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It's interesting that we haven't discussed BSG here, since I know that several of us are big Science Fiction fans and the "new" series (which is already several years old and much longer than the original) is extremely well-done in every aspect.

I'd blame the election, but the show has been around four years. The election has only dominated the board for about five weeks.

*NOTE*
I've been watching them on DVD. I have everything that has been put out so far and am diligently staying far away from spoilers. But I can talk about the first three seasons and Razor.

I have not seen Torchwood at all.
 
Torchwood is good for a laugh. It's got some amazingly awful, just wincingly bad moments in nearly every episode, but we nonetheless watch it faithfully. Our loyalty is due in equal parts to comical levels of badness, the occasional good quip or flash of (dare we say?) actual good writing, and, of course, the figure Captain Jack cuts in a leather trenchcoat.

BSG is remarkable. It so often rises to absolutely breathtaking, and in so many ways. It's not just powerfully characterized, but neatly and tightly plotted, well-paced, and visually stunning. I defy anyone to show me a more dramatically and emotionally moving image on film than that shot in the opening pilot - past the face of the little girl on the botanical ship, through its clear dome, the image of the ships all around her leaping into FTL, where we know her doomed ship cannot follow. It's beautiful and terrible all at once, and how often does anyone manage that?

Obviously, I'm a great fan of it. I study it closely because I admire it intensely.
 
Torchwood is good for a laugh. It's got some amazingly awful, just wincingly bad moments in nearly every episode, but we nonetheless watch it faithfully. Our loyalty is due in equal parts to comical levels of badness, the occasional good quip or flash of (dare we say?) actual good writing, and, of course, the figure Captain Jack cuts in a leather trenchcoat.

BSG is remarkable. It so often rises to absolutely breathtaking, and in so many ways. It's not just powerfully characterized, but neatly and tightly plotted, well-paced, and visually stunning. I defy anyone to show me a more dramatically and emotionally moving image on film than that shot in the opening pilot - past the face of the little girl on the botanical ship, through its clear dome, the image of the ships all around her leaping into FTL, where we know her doomed ship cannot follow. It's beautiful and terrible all at once, and how often does anyone manage that?

Obviously, I'm a great fan of it. I study it closely because I admire it intensely.

I am also a big fan and have introduced many of my friends to it and will be introducing the Impster once we get moved in...

If I still had DVR I'd be all caught up... since I'm not and I hate catching things out of order, I will be patient and wait for Season 4 on DVD. I hate waiting, but I like it better than the WTF moments that can happen by catching episodes out of order.

I also found it interesting to see your comments on House. I have the first two seasons but have not cracked them open yet... I have, however, seen a couple of episodes of it.

I often buy Television DVD's based on the recommendations of friends with good taste... and have rarely regretted doing so.
 
It's a good plan to wait, Belegon. I was in the same position coming into the new season, as we'd come to the series halfway through the third season and hadn't gotten caught up yet. I was glad I waited. I very nearly missed the whole series because the first episode I saw looked, out of context, a bit odd and potentially simplistically stereotyped. I'm glad that I watched a few more and got the chance to see the complexity that was really there.

I think it's a credit to the series that it's not portably epsodic; what's great about it, to me, is that it is one long, gripping story in which all of the parts knit and come together. It's worth watching from beginning to end in order because it makes a great difference. It's epic, and in the true tradition of epic it's not a bunch of roughly interchangable little bits.
 
It's a good plan to wait, Belegon. I was in the same position coming into the new season, as we'd come to the series halfway through the third season and hadn't gotten caught up yet. I was glad I waited. I very nearly missed the whole series because the first episode I saw looked, out of context, a bit odd and potentially simplistically stereotyped. I'm glad that I watched a few more and got the chance to see the complexity that was really there.

I think it's a credit to the series that it's not portably epsodic; what's great about it, to me, is that it is one long, gripping story in which all of the parts knit and come together. It's worth watching from beginning to end in order because it makes a great difference. It's epic, and in the true tradition of epic it's not a bunch of roughly interchangable little bits.

Having a story arc (and character arcs) spread across multiple seasons the way they have is compelling... if sadly limiting. Because it is obvious there is an end being built to... Therefore, you have a situation in which lies inherent risk. You have grasped a loyal audience which will not let go...and yet, you will have to end the series despite it's popularity.

Still, I do prefer that the creators and storytellers are able to end it on their terms. I will be sad to see it end, but it will be far more satisfying than, for example, the way Firefly was handled... where the appetite will never be sated.
 
I've seen the premier episode of BSG and Razor. I liked Razor better. A classic case of 'beware when you battle monsters'.

But I don't watch TV anymore. I only rent a movie about once a month.

These days I check out YouTube for old favorite cartoon shows when I need entertaining. I recently found ever episode of The Herculoids over there. Now that's bad writing. :D
 
I relate writing to music.

No one plays Gershwin like Gershwin. He cant be duplicated. I listened to an old video of Charles-Marie Widor performing his own organ composition ( some of his music cannot be played by master organists), and the music had an enchantment that few organists capture.

So I'm saying that every writer has to find her own way to choreograph words.
 
Having a story arc (and character arcs) spread across multiple seasons the way they have is compelling... if sadly limiting. Because it is obvious there is an end being built to... Therefore, you have a situation in which lies inherent risk. You have grasped a loyal audience which will not let go...and yet, you will have to end the series despite it's popularity.

Still, I do prefer that the creators and storytellers are able to end it on their terms. I will be sad to see it end, but it will be far more satisfying than, for example, the way Firefly was handled... where the appetite will never be sated.


*nods* I agree. I respect the writers for aiming for it, given the much more difficult challenge they've undertaken. I'm one of the people who disliked the ending of "The Sopranos," but I suppose, looking back, that it was inevitable. The final seasons were so formless and confused, with a general plot arc of, apparently, whatever people were talking about around the water cooler - "Hey, look what I read in the paper today! Did you know that some catalytic converters could ignite dry leaves?" "The boyfriend and I just went to Vermont, and we had these things called johnny cakes ..." - that it would have been impossible to have a coherent and meaningful ending, because nothing had built to one. There was nothing to work with. The BSG have a very tough act to follow in terms of high expectations for the ending, but then, they have built a lead-up that really could support some stunning work.
 
*nods* I agree. I respect the writers for aiming for it, given the much more difficult challenge they've undertaken. I'm one of the people who disliked the ending of "The Sopranos," but I suppose, looking back, that it was inevitable. The final seasons were so formless and confused, with a general plot arc of, apparently, whatever people were talking about around the water cooler - "Hey, look what I read in the paper today! Did you know that some catalytic converters could ignite dry leaves?" "The boyfriend and I just went to Vermont, and we had these things called johnny cakes ..." - that it would have been impossible to have a coherent and meaningful ending, because nothing had built to one. There was nothing to work with. The BSG have a very tough act to follow in terms of high expectations for the ending, but then, they have built a lead-up that really could support some stunning work.

I strongly feel that the Sopranos is a perfect example of the outcry of "more, more" leading a writing team into areas where they never would have gone otherwise.

I feel there is always a market for quality and that writers are as subject to the temptations of success as anyone. It's hard to back away from a cash cow, even when you feel the story is played out.

I'm glad the BSG team is not going there.
 
Don't mind me, I'm just here to brush out the Horse's tail whilst you guys talk... :kiss:
 
Don't mind me, I'm just here to brush out the Horse's tail whilst you guys talk... :kiss:

NO! No, you have to join in. I am on my last DVD of Weeds and I need more recommendations. Shang and I are talking BSG, but I would love it if you were to join in and double the odds I get introduced to something new. ;)
 
Only, I haven't watched television for about five years-- I've been watching Buffy on hulu.com-- for the very first time. :eek:
(and only because one particular fanfic writer that I found writes excellent BDSM using Xander and Spike as her characters. But of course her version has departed canon, and the show seems flat in comparison.)

And the idea of BSG actually remaining strong and forward-moving and gripping is kinda scary-- what a lot of hours of participation it must demand!
 
Only, I haven't watched television for about five years-- I've been watching Buffy on hulu.com-- for the very first time. :eek:
(and only because one particular fanfic writer that I found writes excellent BDSM using Xander and Spike as her characters. But of course her version has departed canon, and the show seems flat in comparison.)

And the idea of BSG actually remaining strong and forward-moving and gripping is kinda scary-- what a lot of hours of participation it must demand!

I have the first season of Buffy on DVD... I have watched maybe half of it. I like it but don't love it at this point. Although I admit to being keen on Willow. I like the smart chicks, ya know...
 
NO! No, you have to join in. I am on my last DVD of Weeds and I need more recommendations. Shang and I are talking BSG, but I would love it if you were to join in and double the odds I get introduced to something new. ;)

I'll lend you my DVD's of the first 5 seasons of "The 'L' Word"! :D
 
I have the first season of Buffy on DVD... I have watched maybe half of it. I like it but don't love it at this point. Although I admit to being keen on Willow. I like the smart chicks, ya know...
I like the dangerous ones-- Buffy is chock full of gorgeous demon-women... Willow gets to turn into a white-haired, maelstrom-producing, fireball-launching, universe-destroyer. That's pretty cool.
 
I like the dangerous ones-- Buffy is chock full of gorgeous demon-women... Willow gets to turn into a white-haired, maelstrom-producing, fireball-launching, universe-destroyer. That's pretty cool.

Yeah, I'm not one to shy away from danger either. I like 'em strong-willed and fierce. As evidenced by my choice of partners... :D

Danger has always attracted me. Whether it's as simple as driving fast or as complicated as relationships.
 
Yeah, I'm not one to shy away from danger either. I like 'em strong-willed and fierce. As evidenced by my choice of partners... :D

Danger has always attracted me. Whether it's as simple as driving fast or as complicated as relationships.
And right now, you're doing both at once, right?
 
I like torchwood, mostly for captain Jack mind, and they could Kill Gwen off and I wouldn't mind (though I know Scheh, would)but funnily enough, I never liked Owen's character but as that big event happened to him and the whole him and Tosh thing got going, I actually found myself caring about him. Now that, to my mind *is* good writing.

Now somewhere the Earl wrote me a note in the character of Captain Jack...*swoon* it was good, very good.
 
And right now, you're doing both at once, right?

not driving at the moment *grin*

Truly, while Imp is a dangerous woman in many ways, I don't consider her a danger to me at all. More like a shining dream. ;)
 
Bel,

You can watch all two seasons of Torchwood here ... Torchwood ... for free. The quality isn't all that great but will do.
 
Huh. Interresting.

I think you're missing the point of Torchwood, Shang. It's bite sized light sci-fi entertainment. Like episodes of The Twilight Zone. It's clichéd, cheesy as hell and pretty damn two-dimensional, but the audience is supposed to get an hour of space monsters and laser guns going Zap, and then they switch to Top Gear and don't want to linger on the woes and motivations of Jack and Gwen when they see Jeremy Clarkson trying to climb into the backseat of a Hyundai.

Personally I can't stand BSG. Tried to watch it from the start as re-runs started this summer over here. I got about ten episodes into it until it derailed into political soap opera and never quite recovered. If it had been chapters in a novel with me as the editor, it would be returned to the author with a huge post-it note slapped on it saying "Focus, dammit. And come on, every characher dorsn't have to be this constipated all the time. I know it's serious business, war and all, but come on..."

Different strokes and such, I guess.
 
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Huh. Interresting.

I think you're missing the point of Torchwood, Shang. It's bite sized light sci-fi entertainment. Like episodes of The Twilight Zone. It's clichéd, cheesy as hell and pretty damn two-dimensional, but the audience is supposed to get an hour of space monsters and laser guns going Zap, and then they switch to Top Gear and don't want to linger on the woes and motivations of Jack and Gwen when they see Jeremy Clarkson trying to climb into the backseat of a Hyundai.

Personally I can't stand BSG. Tried to watch it from the start as re-runs started this summer over here. I got about ten episodes into it until it derailed into political soap opera and never quite recovered. If it had been chapters in a novel with me as the editor, it would be returned to the author with a huge post-it note slapped on it saying "Focus, dammit. And come on, every characher dorsn't have to be this constipated all the time. I know it's serious business, war and all, but come on..."

Different strokes and such, I guess.


LOL
Liar, you make me smile. I needed that.
:kiss:
 
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