Everyday Feminism

[Lancecastor]

Or do you believe that you should be able to wear anything in any situation without consiquence?

Everyone knows that cleavage and short skirts are Rape Requests.

 

[Brave Maximus]

But you don't want opinions. You want to pick a fight and tell us how all feminists should be feminizing. Seems pretty obvious.
Also, I'd like to apologize. I didn't realize what I wear makes me what you perceive. Perhaps I like my legs, or my ass, and feel as though I can and should have the right to show them off for me, not because of your opinion. But go on, I'm sure you have more to add.

Sorry, had to interact with the real world for a little bit... But this is at least an opinion and should be replied to seperately.

I do value opinions. I don't want to tell you how to feminize(? not really the appropriate conjugation of the word... but we'll run with it). But yes, I do want to pick a fight. That I fully admit. I dislike when other people are told they are wrong based upon arbitrary decisions. If you want to disregard someone's thoughts on a subject because of their genitalia.... oh wait... I've seen this argument somewhere... and I remember people getting very mad about it... even blowing things up. So me wanting to pick a fight with people who shut down a conversation because it doesn't agree with their world view... doesn't seem so out of place.
If I have been wrong in instances, the show me how I'm wrong! Provide a counter point of view beyond "I'm a woman, this is feminism, I'm automatically right". In the opening post I asked for opinions, and I was sure I was going to get smacked with things. I just expected people to actually say things, not.... dismiss it and prejudge.

 

[Brave Maximus]

Everyone knows that cleavage and short skirts are Rape Requests.

Not helping and not what I said (just above that quote I made diffinitive statements about everyone being free from sexual harrasment and sexual assault) - so congrats, you've pissed off everyone in the thread.

Also, I assume you're being facetious, but if you do think that way... seek professional help.

 

[Noor]

But.... but.... but.... but.......:



Or do you believe that you should be able to wear anything in any situation without consiquence?
Or is it that you believe guys should just not look at you?
Do you believe there is a difference between objectification and appreciation? At what point can we look at another person without them getting offended?

I think the problem starts much younger, when males are admired for their accomplishments and females for their accidents of birth.

How would you feel if women mainly admired you for your accidents of birth? What if women looked at all men the way men look at women.
If nice clothing for men was designed to accentuate their legs, balls, breasts?
If men's clothes had no or limited pockets because it was expected that they would have women to carry things for them or would carry a purse?

 

[Brave Maximus]

And to everyone else....

Wow.....

I mean... wow....

I may have come into this with an issue about a specific site, and the stances they took. But to be accused of "Mansplaining" and being patronizing, all without any sort of counter argument beyond "You're a guy, you can't understand" to the over all feeling of "Guys shouldn't even be involved in this conversation".
Do you not realize that I could screen cap this entire conversation, post it anywhere and prove the worst fears of "Feminism gone rampant"?
I'm sure someone already has!

Just because I voice an opinion that is different from yours, does not automatically make me wrong, nor does you confidence in yours make you right. With very few exceptions (see lancecastor's statement above as a prime example), there is no right and wrong in this conversation... But, again, you didn't want to hear it so you mock and accuse. Very few people have had the courage to actively participate in the conversation and they took to the hills at the right time (probably much smarter than me...)

But I would like to single two things out... apparently slut-shaming is bad... but shaming someone because of a disability is fine. Good on you - keep pointing out when someone has problems spelling, just to make them feel bad enough to not voice their "oppinion". Wow.

Second, prejudging someone based on their genitalia is wrong. Thinking you know what they're going to say and framing it in an antagonistic view before you read it is equally wrong. Congrats, that is one of the worst things I've seen. I'm glad you admitted it publicly.

 

[Brave Maximus]

Yay!!!!!

I think the problem starts much younger, when males are admired for their accomplishments and females for their accidents of birth.

How would you feel if women mainly admired you for your accidents of birth? What if women looked at all men the way men look at women.
If nice clothing for men was designed to accentuate their legs, balls, breasts?
If men's clothes had no or limited pockets because it was expected that they would have women to carry things for them or would carry a purse?

Gah, the "accidents of birth" thing is just... a statement that makes the skin crawl, conjuring up the issues with female birth in places like China and India....
However, it's 100% the correct term....

Are woment not admired for their accomplisments? I do see where you're coming from, and even popular media shows... that women are praised for their physical features through things like pagents and similar cultures. It's not quite so previlent up here... but I'm sure it still exists. At the same time, boys are shown that absolute masculinity with things like sports is the thing to be... so yes, from an early age, the emphasis needs to change...

And you can't tell me that women do not objectify men. I see it in the gym and on the streets all the time. This is not to justify it, quite the opposite. Objectification is wrong... period.
As to women's clothing... I've never understood it... I doubt Iever will. (and I would love it if they made mens clothing to better accomidate balls... as it stands, it's not the best system... and historically, european clothing was meant to accentuate male organs... though womens were always more outrageous).

However, doesn't your statement of how this is bad, directly conflict with SomeoneFamiliar's statement of "what if I like my body and want to show it off?"

I honestly don't think it matters how you dress, as long as you are given the freedom to chose. This includes freedom from social pressure to dress and act a certain way. But at the same time... what if the opposite sex (or even same sex) looks at you. There is obviously a line between appreciation and objectification... but... how is this played out. Do you automatically assume that someone who is looking at you is objectifying you?

 

[Iceprincess12]

Not helping and not what I said (just above that quote I made diffinitive statements about everyone being free from sexual harrasment and sexual assault) - so congrats, you've pissed off everyone in the thread.

Also, I assume you're being facetious, but if you do think that way... seek professional help.

Morning Brave!

I have never heard of the group but I'm not a feminist either. Many women can't or won't speak up for themselves and need girl power to back them up. No different then men needing a group to give each other courage. It's just another specialized group with it's own interests that feels it can speak for everyone.

I personally think feminist has a negative connotation. Women should believe in themselves enough that they don't need to join a group that is based on negativity. "Should", of course, is one of those words that means "my opinion" and is based on my world view.

I assume you had some responses from women who just flipped it into "man hate" gear without stopping first at "let me think". Their opinions are defined by their world view and should just stand as is. Just as you have an opinion on what is a valid response to your question, other people may disagree. If you only want responses that you consider valid, then I would suggest-make a few alts and talk to yourself

This isn't really valid, just wordy so it seems like I put a lot of thought into it. It's mostly an apology for not responding to your last pm since I went to bed .


Happy Tuesday!

 

[nerfhearder]

Bitches stay in the kitchen we wouldn't have these problems. Just saying.

 

[SomeoneFamiliar]

Sorry, had to interact with the real world for a little bit... But this is at least an opinion and should be replied to seperately.

I do value opinions. I don't want to tell you how to feminize(? not really the appropriate conjugation of the word... but we'll run with it). But yes, I do want to pick a fight. That I fully admit. I dislike when other people are told they are wrong based upon arbitrary decisions. If you want to disregard someone's thoughts on a subject because of their genitalia.... oh wait... I've seen this argument somewhere... and I remember people getting very mad about it... even blowing things up. So me wanting to pick a fight with people who shut down a conversation because it doesn't agree with their world view... doesn't seem so out of place.
If I have been wrong in instances, the show me how I'm wrong! Provide a counter point of view beyond "I'm a woman, this is feminism, I'm automatically right". In the opening post I asked for opinions, and I was sure I was going to get smacked with things. I just expected people to actually say things, not.... dismiss it and prejudge.

Trying to convince you of anything isn't going to happen. You came here with a chip on your shoulder. I will say I'm disappointed that you're taking this in the direction you are. Do you know what it's like to be discriminated against based in your gender? Have you ever had someone tell you that you need to go back and play with your dolls or you should be home taking care of the kids and feeding your man? Probably not.
Feminism is many things. Maybe it would be more accurate to assume you have a problem with sexism, where everyone should be equal,but it isn't.
You say we aren't countering your arguments or showing you where you're wrong, but you're not looking. You're spouting off.

For someone who wanted a hug because he was tried of everything always being a fight, this is some interesting behavior.

I have things to do. I hope your feminist conversation becomes what you hoped it would in the first place.

 

[SomeoneFamiliar]

Bitches stay in the kitchen we wouldn't have these problems. Just saying.

Exactly.
Bitches.

 

[Lancecastor]

congrats, you've pissed off everyone in the thread.

Just another day in paradise, Brave Sir Robin.

 

[nerfhearder]

Exactly.
Bitches.

Some people call them whores or cunts but I think that's wrong because whores are good for something and not all bitches are cunts.

 

[SomeoneFamiliar]

Some people call them whores or cunts but I think that's wrong because whores are good for something and not all bitches are cunts.

Of course. Subtle nuances.

 

[Brave Maximus]

Morning Brave!

I have never heard of the group but I'm not a feminist either. Many women can't or won't speak up for themselves and need girl power to back them up. No different then men needing a group to give each other courage. It's just another specialized group with it's own interests that feels it can speak for everyone.

I personally think feminist has a negative connotation. Women should believe in themselves enough that they don't need to join a group that is based on negativity. "Should", of course, is one of those words that means "my opinion" and is based on my world view.

I assume you had some responses from women who just flipped it into "man hate" gear without stopping first at "let me think". Their opinions are defined by their world view and should just stand as is. Just as you have an opinion on what is a valid response to your question, other people may disagree. If you only want responses that you consider valid, then I would suggest-make a few alts and talk to yourself

This isn't really valid, just wordy so it seems like I put a lot of thought into it. It's mostly an apology for not responding to your last pm since I went to bed .


Happy Tuesday!

Hey Icy - nah, never appologize... sleep is incredibly nessisary... and if I didn't have a crap ton of work (mostly because of scheduling errors on my part) - I'd be hitting bed early tonight.

You make some valid points though...
And just because I don't agree with an opinion doesn't mean I don't think it's valid (Unless... it's blatantly bigoted on it's face), nor does it mean I don't want to hear it. I'm trying to understand where the idea of "omg he argued with me, he must not accept my opinion and I can't stand that" came from. If an idea is never challenged, it can't be proved. Further more, just because someone argues it doesn't mean it's a personal attack... just a counter to your idea. Anyone who's put up a counter arguement (noor, irizum, SomeoneFamiliar), I don't take it personally.... the personal attacks however....

 

[nerfhearder]

The other day my wife called this other woman a cunt. I said she was a hypocrite because I called her mother a cunt once and she got all upset and said I shouldn't say that.
Double standards.

 

[Iceprincess12]

Hey Icy - nah, never appologize... sleep is incredibly nessisary... and if I didn't have a crap ton of work (mostly because of scheduling errors on my part) - I'd be hitting bed early tonight.

You make some valid points though...
And just because I don't agree with an opinion doesn't mean I don't think it's valid (Unless... it's blatantly bigoted on it's face), nor does it mean I don't want to hear it. I'm trying to understand where the idea of "omg he argued with me, he must not accept my opinion and I can't stand that" came from. If an idea is never challenged, it can't be proved. Further more, just because someone argues it doesn't mean it's a personal attack... just a counter to your idea. Anyone who's put up a counter arguement (noor, irizum, SomeoneFamiliar), I don't take it personally.... the personal attacks however....

But you are on the gb...personal attacks are the free chips and salsa before your chimichanga. Even if you say no, they bring it anyway!

 

[SomeoneFamiliar]

But you are on the gb...personal attacks are the free chips and salsa before your chimichanga. Even if you say no, they bring it anyway!

Truth^

Speaking of Mexican food...
Margaritas should come standard with the personal attacks.

 

[Lancecastor]

For a "Knight" he's a bit of a whining pussy.

Probably works at a Lesbian Help Line.

 

[Brave Maximus]

Trying to convince you of anything isn't going to happen. You came here with a chip on your shoulder. I will say I'm disappointed that you're taking this in the direction you are. Do you know what it's like to be discriminated against based in your gender? Have you ever had someone tell you that you need to go back and play with your dolls or you should be home taking care of the kids and feeding your man? Probably not.
Feminism is many things. Maybe it would be more accurate to assume you have a problem with sexism, where everyone should be equal,but it isn't.
You say we aren't countering your arguments or showing you where you're wrong, but you're not looking. You're spouting off.

For someone who wanted a hug because he was tried of everything always being a fight, this is some interesting behavior.

I have things to do. I hope your feminist conversation becomes what you hoped it would in the first place.

Why? Because I've argued? Who said this is about convincing? Shouldn't there be ideas put forward before attempting to convince?
I admit I had a chip on my shoulder, about a website called everydayfeminism, I even mentioned that in the opening post! But I didn't actually bring up feminism - very early in this thread, I mentioned my issue with their stances on racism, sexism, that sort of thing - all of you focused on feminism, I just ran with it

Have I experienced bias based on my sex? Of course. How about being told to man up? That real men don't cry? Just man up, you can't be that depressed, just suck it up and walk it off? We're not taking applications from me. Real men work in factories anyway. Only pansies wear makeup.
Your pain isn't real, you should try childbirth. Yes, I've been discriminated against because of my sex. However, I didn't bring it up, because until this moment, it was not relivent or productive to the conversation. I still don't think it's productive. NO ONE should ever be discriminated against because of any distinguising feature. If it happened to you, I am sorry. But never assume that because someone's on the other side of the conversation, that they don't have a common frame of reference.

As for not looking? Please explain how Brollyanna, Sinny, Eves or wings comments were in any way productive and anything other than attempts to shut down the conversation with shaming?


You do bring up one interesting point though... That feminism is different from sexual equality.
If Feminism isn't about gaining equality, what is it? Because you're right... I may be wrong about my internal definitions.

 

[Lancecastor]

Yes, I've been discriminated against because of my sex.

ahahaha!

 

[Iceprincess12]

Truth^

Speaking of Mexican food...
Margaritas should come standard with the personal attacks.

Strawberry daiquiri-virgin with whipped cream and a cherry please

 

[nerfhearder]

Why? Because I've argued? Who said this is about convincing? Shouldn't there be ideas put forward before attempting to convince?
I admit I had a chip on my shoulder, about a website called everydayfeminism, I even mentioned that in the opening post! But I didn't actually bring up feminism - very early in this thread, I mentioned my issue with their stances on racism, sexism, that sort of thing - all of you focused on feminism, I just ran with it

Have I experienced bias based on my sex? Of course. How about being told to man up? That real men don't cry? Just man up, you can't be that depressed, just suck it up and walk it off? We're not taking applications from me. Real men work in factories anyway. Only pansies wear makeup.
Your pain isn't real, you should try childbirth. Yes, I've been discriminated against because of my sex. However, I didn't bring it up, because until this moment, it was not relivent or productive to the conversation. I still don't think it's productive. NO ONE should ever be discriminated against because of any distinguising feature. If it happened to you, I am sorry. But never assume that because someone's on the other side of the conversation, that they don't have a common frame of reference.

As for not looking? Please explain how Brollyanna, Sinny, Eves or wings comments were in any way productive and anything other than attempts to shut down the conversation with shaming?


You do bring up one interesting point though... That feminism is different from sexual equality.
If Feminism isn't about gaining equality, what is it? Because you're right... I may be wrong about my internal definitions.

Wow you really are whining little pussy aren't you?

 

[Sean]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3488/3845071402_25e1c6938f_z.jpg

 

[Brave Maximus]

Wow you really are whining little pussy aren't you?

I most certianly am brodinsky!

 

[BabblingBrooke]