Europe vs. North America

[CharleyH]

I never thought Western Europe was THAT different until I got here and whoa - it is THAT different. I realised that we North Americans are spoiled brats and also that we are definately an homogenized culture. As a North American I also realised that I am not as relaxed as I thought on a personal level.

On a personal level and if you have been to Europe more than a trip? What are some culture shocks you have experienced? Alternately for those in other counties who went to NA, what was your culture shock?

My biggest problems are with milk, movies, alcohol and toilets and London Taxi drivers. London cab drivers are either honest or not - be warned! It cost me 16 pounds (about 30 USD) to get to a hotel and 6 pounds to get back to the airport (don't wanna talk about it! lol). There is milk here, but it comes in litres and not in bags, and it is warm, served on shelves and not in fridges, as the eggs are also served on shelves, sans white and not in fridges. Flour is almost brown, not purified and bleached as we are used to having. There is no such thing as BUTTERED popcorn where I am - there is salted or caramel. Toilets are a confusion, much as I recounted to one or two Litsters its like piecing together a Jackson Pollock painting - IN PUZZLE FORM. In NA there is ONE WAY to flush uma toilette(?) and here in Europe I apparently break toilets trying to figure them out. Also, NO BLACK RUSSIANS and no real coffee. Coffee is called CAFE, which we know as espresso and cock roaches? Well - LOL they even look different and are harder to kill.

Otherwise and as an aside I LOVE IT HERE. The history, the people (OK - maybe not Portugese women who settle traffic disputes via fist fghts, but - lol) the beauty, the olives and the feeling that there is so much to us as a people- to life. and to adventure

My question:
A tourist in another country is one thing - an ex-patriot another. Either way, what were/are the biggest adjustments for you in another place not called home? What do you think the biggest adjustments might be for you? As a writer, how do you write about other countries you have not experienced?

 

[rgraham666]

The only question I can answer is the last one.

Like everything else when I write I find out what I can then use my imagination. But since most of my stuff concentrates on the characters more than the setting where a story takes place is secondary.

 

[CharleyH]

The only question I can answer is the last one.

Like everything else when I write I find out what I can then use my imagination. But since most of my stuff concentrates on the characters more than the setting where a story takes place is secondary.

Thanks RG, yet what about characters in different places, locations you are not familiar with? (does not have to be Europe)

(EDIT - for terrible spelling)

 

[rgraham666]

I've only done one story that was set in a specific city that I have never been to.

With the exception of the Eiffel Tower, it was populated with things entirely from my imagination. Or that, in my opinion, would exist in any city.

In the former case, I created a café and a restaurant, without giving locations except perhaps a feeling of them being in the centre of the city.

In the latter, it was the train station, an area of the city where the lower middle class live and a church.

I haven't had anybody call me on it yet.

The story by the way is Embrace.

I did set one story in Toronto. It did add a little extra flavour for me. I don't think many of my readers cared much though. It was just a setting.

 

[Weird Harold]

On a personal level and if you have been to Europe more than a trip? What are some culture shocks you have experienced? Alternately for those in other counties who went to NA, what was your culture shock?

I suppose that being in the military and dealing primarily with natives who have more experience with "culture shock" than the GI's they deal with softened my experiences with culture shock, both in Europe and in Asia.

The worst "culture shock" -- more specifically the worst problem with the language barrier -- was my three year tour in England. The differences were obscured because everything looked and sounded almost familiar so when differences did cause "culture shock" it was more of a "shock" than in other countries where I was more prepared to encounter differences.

Spending my working hours in a little pocket of "America" and having the support of "short-timers" in deciphering the diferences made a huge difference in dealing with culture shock, so for me it was more "Cultural Fascination" than "Cultural Shock"

 

[gauchecritic]

Culture shock for me is simply not being at home. Even London or Birmingham (east of Scher) are so culturally different that I'm always aware of my non-native status.

The one time I attempted to write about somewhere I don't personally know was in the town of Snippetsville and then my central character was a yorkshireman in a movie familiar setting.

 

[3113]

My husband's the one who's been doing the traveling recently. He loves London. I mean he LOVES it to the point where if he sees it on the television, he'll get homesick for it.

There's only one thing that trips him up when he's visiting London...he misses American showers and plumbing.

 

[neonlyte]

Otherwise and as an aside I LOVE IT HERE. The history, the people (OK - maybe not Portugese women who settle traffic disputes via fist fghts, but - lol) the beauty, the olives and the feeling that there is so much to us as a people- to life. and to adventure

Oh... you've met my friend

The driving is something else, first time I visited, they had no road signs. Trying to find your way out of xxxxx was a nightmare. I was scared to go back Back then, the city authorities hadn't paid their electricity bill, there were no street lights in parts of the city.

My question:
A tourist in another country is one thing - an ex-patriot another. Either way, what were/are the biggest adjustments for you in another place not called home? What do you think the biggest adjustments might be for you? As a writer, how do you write about other countries you have not experienced?

I've been here too long, I'm almost a tourist in UK nowadays, and actually, I kind of appreciate it better that way. Certainly the biggest adjustment coming here was food, lack of vegetables, though that has changed. Still the biggest difference I see is in the behaviour of the younger generation. There is more camaraderie between the sexes and within the sexes compared with UK. Winter is not the best time to appreciate this, you need to be out, parks, gardens & beaches to see a different way of behaving, touching, kissing between friends and not just partners.

I'm steering away from writing about countries I don't know. I've a handful to choose from, it's enough.

I'll call you tomorrow, but I think after New Year is more likely. The perpetual rain has caused immense building problems, we've buckets everywhere

ETA: Just in case no one told you, Friday is a public holiday. Hope you bought food

 

[CharleyH]

I suppose that being in the military and dealing primarily with natives who have more experience with "culture shock" than the GI's they deal with softened my experiences with culture shock, both in Europe and in Asia.

The worst "culture shock" -- more specifically the worst problem with the language barrier -- was my three year tour in England. The differences were obscured because everything looked and sounded almost familiar so when differences did cause "culture shock" it was more of a "shock" than in other countries where I was more prepared to encounter differences.

Spending my working hours in a little pocket of "America" and having the support of "short-timers" in deciphering the diferences made a huge difference in dealing with culture shock, so for me it was more "Cultural Fascination" than "Cultural Shock"

I am also iin a zone of culture fascination as you say, yet it's the little thing like toilets ( how many ways can one flush them- lol) and popcorn and milk that make me miss home (NA) I have only stopped by London (exceedingly expensive) for an Evening, yet I did get something from it.

I do desire to meet ex-patriots, though. How did you meet them where you went WH? Back to the question:

"A tourist in another country is one thing - an ex-patriot another. Either way, what were/are the biggest adjustments for you in another place not called home? What do you think the biggest adjustments might be for you? As a writer, how do you write about other countries you have not experienced?"

 

[CharleyH]

My husband's the one who's been doing the traveling recently. He loves London. I mean he LOVES it to the point where if he sees it on the television, he'll get homesick for it.

There's only one thing that trips him up when he's visiting London...he misses American showers and plumbing.

Believe me - I hear him! LOL - Like I said - I think we North Ams are spoiled to a point of .... hm, lol, excessivity? Decadence?

 

[CharleyH]

Oh... you've met my friend

The driving is something else, first time I visited, they had no road signs. Trying to find your way out of xxxxx was a nightmare. I was scared to go back Back then, the city authorities hadn't paid their electricity bill, there were no street lights in parts of the city.


I've been here too long, I'm almost a tourist in UK nowadays, and actually, I kind of appreciate it better that way. Certainly the biggest adjustment coming here was food, lack of vegetables, though that has changed. Still the biggest difference I see is in the behaviour of the younger generation. There is more camaraderie between the sexes and within the sexes compared with UK. Winter is not the best time to appreciate this, you need to be out, parks, gardens & beaches to see a different way of behaving, touching, kissing between friends and not just partners.

I'm steering away from writing about countries I don't know. I've a handful to choose from, it's enough.

I'll call you tomorrow, but I think after New Year is more likely. The perpetual rain has caused immense building problems, we've buckets everywhere

ETA: Just in case no one told you, Friday is a public holiday. Hope you bought food

LOL I barely need to read more than one sentance to know you know LOL. I so hear you on the veggie front - loads of fruit but no veggies. As for the touching part - I am getting used to the kiss kiss without being turned on LOL.

As an aside: Anytime - after new year I figured. I am at least - patient - lol

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Decades ago I traveled all over Europe, but more recently the only place I've been is Tuscany. The biggest culture shock was when I left, walking away from the most divine food I've ever had in my life. Not just fancy restaurant meals, but breakfast rolls, fresh crusty bread with wild boar sausage and native cheeses from the little deli/groceries, snacks at the "Bars," etc.

Sob!


PS. For me, driving in Italy was like coming home. At last! A whole nation of people as insanely aggressive as me! Sigh - I miss that too. Frickin' American drivers, sleepwalking through life.

 

[Weird Harold]

I do desire to meet ex-patriots, though. How did you meet them where you went WH?

Ex-pats often hung around the same off-base bars as the GIs but there really wasn't much interaction between ex-patriots and GIs.

It often took a conscious effort to really experience the local culture -- the area immdeiately around a military base tends to become a "buffer zone" where Local culture and American "culture" intermingle.

With regard to your question, Military personnel in foreign countries are neither "fish nor fowl" -- not exactly tourits, but not ex-patriots completely immersed in the local economy and culture.

 

[CharleyH]

Decades ago I traveled all over Europe, but more recently the only place I've been is Tuscany. The biggest culture shock was when I left, walking away from the most divine food I've ever had in my life. Not just fancy restaurant meals, but breakfast rolls, fresh crusty bread with wild boar sausage and native cheeses from the little deli/groceries, snacks at the "Bars," etc.

Sob!


PS. For me, driving in Italy was like coming home. At last! A whole nation of people as insanely aggressive as me! Sigh - I miss that too. Frickin' American drivers, sleepwalking through life.

You are definately more adventurous than me - WILD BOAR . I have now eaten things I would not usually touch with a cliched 10-foot pole. Blood sausage? Blood thingies - YUK I did try them - but gag LOL - ok fine, they tasted like chicken.

 

[cloudy]

There was more differences than I'd figured just between the states and Canada.

Milk in bags instead of plastic jugs.
Everything seemed outrageously expensive. Of course, the dollar is different, but it's still a dollar, you know?
The speed limits! I've learned the US is a nation of speed demons compared to Canada.
The court system - bowing before you leave a courtroom, and calling the judge "your worship" - wtf?

Sometimes, when you're in an unfamiliar place, those small differences seem enormous.

 

[CharleyH]

Ex-pats often hung around the same off-base bars as the GIs but there really wasn't much interaction between ex-patriots and GIs.

It often took a conscious effort to really experience the local culture -- the area immdeiately around a military base tends to become a "buffer zone" where Local culture and American "culture" intermingle.

With regard to your question, Military personnel in foreign countries are neither "fish nor fowl" -- not exactly tourits, but not ex-patriots completely immersed in the local economy and culture.

So, basically, you are saying I need to learn the phrase "Are you lesbian and I have port at home ... sexy."

LOL

 

[CharleyH]

There was more differences than I'd figured just between the states and Canada.

Milk in bags instead of plastic jugs.
Everything seemed outrageously expensive. Of course, the dollar is different, but it's still a dollar, you know?
The speed limits! I've learned the US is a nation of speed demons compared to Canada.
The court system - bowing before you leave a courtroom, and calling the judge "your worship" - wtf?

Sometimes, when you're in an unfamiliar place, those small differences seem enormous.

Nods - Canada is very expensive. AS FOR YOUR WORSHIP? lol WE or I guess, are all dom/mes.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

You are definately more adventurous than me - WILD BOAR . I have now eaten things I would not usually touch with a cliched 10-foot pole. Blood sausage? Blood thingies - YUK I did try them - but gag LOL - ok fine, they tasted like chicken.

Oh no, it's not really adventurous at all. Boar - cinghiale - is nothing more than a fancy kind of pork, after all. It's not uncommon in many Northern Italian dishes. In Florence I had a peasant stew of it with fresh crusty bread that was to die for. I never inquired too closely as to the origin - didn't want to blow away the romantic image of hunting parties with spears combing the woods.

 

[Penelope Street]

As a writer, how do you write about other countries you have not experienced?

Anytime I write about something I don't know personally, I try to find someone who does know to help me. It doesn't hurt that I love to chat with just about anyone and have a pretty good memory. Failing that, it's research, research, and more research.


P.S.
Happy you're enjoying your trip.

 

[JamesSD]

There is milk here, but it comes in litres and not in bags, and it is warm, served on shelves and not in fridges

Bagged milk is actually a regional thing, done in Canada and the Midwest of the US, but not on the west coast. (Not sure about elsewhere)

The room temperature milk in Europe is disgusting. The Coke that uses real sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup is delicious.

 

[CharleyH]

Oh no, it's not really adventurous at all. Boar - cinghiale - is nothing more than a fancy kind of pork, after all. It's not uncommon in many Northern Italian dishes. In Florence I had a peasant stew of it with fresh crusty bread that was to die for. I never inquired too closely as to the origin - didn't want to blow away the romantic image of hunting parties with spears combing the woods.

Does pheasant equal pigeon ? and very scared- lol

 

[JamesSD]

Everything seemed outrageously expensive. Of course, the dollar is different, but it's still a dollar, you know?

Food in Canada is much more expensive than the US. The US has some of the strongest agriculture in the world, hence some of the cheapest food.

Canada also has much higher sales taxes, which only serves to drive up the price of things.

 

[CharleyH]

Bagged milk is actually a regional thing, done in Canada and the Midwest of the US, but not on the west coast. (Not sure about elsewhere)

The room temperature milk in Europe is disgusting. The Coke that uses real sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup is delicious.

I have lived in both LA and Vancouver on the West Coast - bags are as standard as toilets (gaddamn Euro WC's) And yes about the discust regarding milk and eggs .... I might add that Coke is coke though. Powdered or otherwise.

 

[Liar]

Bagged milk is actually a regional thing, done in Canada and the Midwest of the US, but not on the west coast. (Not sure about elsewhere)

The room temperature milk in Europe is disgusting. The Coke that uses real sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup is delicious.

What room temperature milk? Must be a regional thing.

Also, NO BLACK RUSSIANS and no real coffee.

Um...that was my Canadian experience.

But England...yeah...no real coffee there either. Some Starbucks-esque plastic barista chains, but no proper black that doesn't taste like thinned out instant.

Oh, and glad to see someone else who appticiate a black russian. That's my litmus test for any new bar I'm in. 1) Do they have good Belgian or Chech beer? 2) Can they make a black russian without messing it up?

 

[McKenna]

My question:
A tourist in another country is one thing - an ex-patriot another. Either way, what were/are the biggest adjustments for you in another place not called home? What do you think the biggest adjustments might be for you? As a writer, how do you write about other countries you have not experienced?

The toilets are interesting. I had to ask for help more than once.

I think the biggest adjustment for me was NOT hearing my native language every day. Not in the supermarket, not on the streets, not on TV (much.) It's a lonely sort of feeling, especially when you don't understand the language around you.

I liked the food; it was fresher, not so filled with preservatives, and frankly tasted better. It didn't keep as long in the fridge or on the shelf, but that's a small price to pay for the quality of the stuff. I liked that the packaging was smaller, too. You didn't have to buy a mondo-size box of cereal. I think the difference in packaging has to do with the fact that most people still ride bikes to run to the store. You can only haul so much on a bike (and trust me, I tested those limits.)

It took about three months for the "vacation" feel to wear off and for me to finally accept that Holland was my new home. That's when I stopped romanticizing things and started dealing with the reality that grocery markets don't carry maple syrup and root beer is unheard of. You learn new ways of doing things. You learn what humility is. I don't think living in another country is for everyone; it takes a certain kind of person to make a go of it successfully, and I'm not so sure I was one of them. In the end, I missed the wide open spaces of the American West, but since I've been back, I've felt neither American nor European.

To answer your last question, I'm not sure I could write about a country I've never visited. I might be able to fake it in the general sense, making the location unimportant to the story, but I definitely couldn't write, say, a travel article about a place I've never been to.

Great thread, Charley.