Engrossed in Bush's 'war' with Iraq...

[p_p_man]

Americans have probably missed this historic meeting in Copenhagen taking place from today...

"EU summit to seal expansion deal

Tony Blair is joining fellow EU leaders in Copenhagen to seal a deal on the historic expansion of the European Union to 25 member states. The Prime Minister is taking part in final negotiations to secure the EU accession of 10 countries, mainly from the emerging democracies in eastern and central Europe. The reunification of the European continent has been described as removing the last brick from the Berlin Wall, the collapse of which in 1989 paved the way for the historic EU accord."

Well cousins across the sea you can huff and you can puff and blow all the terrorist houses down but...

Coming up fast on the inside track is the European Super State...

ppman

 

[REDWAVE]

Turkey

The most interesting issue to be addressed there is Turkey. It want to join the E.U. bad, and has linked that issue with allowing Bush to use Turkish bases to attack Iraq. So Bush is pressuring the E.U. nations to move toward letting Turkey in, despite its savage repression of Kurds and the fact that geographically it's primarily an Asian, not a European, country.

It will be intruiging to see what happens on that.

 

[MightyZor]

Oh please!!! We don't care about the fucking stupid politics. If I wanted to discuss politics I would go to politics forum!

 

[p_p_man]

Oh please!!! We don't care about the fucking stupid politics. If I wanted to discuss politics I would go to politics forum!

Bye...

Nice knowing you...

And who's 'we' paleface...



ppman

 

[sheath]

Hmmm...

Oh please!!! We don't care about the fucking stupid politics. If I wanted to discuss politics I would go to politics forum!

You have only a dozen or so posts...

PPman has...oh...over ten thousand.



In light of the absolutely idiotic nature of your post...

I just had to point that out.

Happy posting, dumbfuck.

S.

 

[bluespoke]

It's more like ......

goodbye European Super State. With so many of the new members having previously been under the Soviet boot, how kindly do you think they are going to look on the EC with its non democratic ways?

 

[Don K Dyck]

Americans have probably missed this historic meeting in Copenhagen taking place from today...

"EU summit to seal expansion deal

Tony Blair is joining fellow EU leaders in Copenhagen to seal a deal on the historic expansion of the European Union to 25 member states. The Prime Minister is taking part in final negotiations to secure the EU accession of 10 countries, mainly from the emerging democracies in eastern and central Europe. The reunification of the European continent has been described as removing the last brick from the Berlin Wall, the collapse of which in 1989 paved the way for the historic EU accord."

Well cousins across the sea you can huff and you can puff and blow all the terrorist houses down but...

Coming up fast on the inside track is the European Super State...

ppman

Hi ppman . . . this is very interesting and simply adds further pressure on the U$ economic performance . . . which every indicator suggests is abyssmal . . . 25 countries in the United States of Europe . . . ooops! . . . I mean EU, must be politically correct . . .

One scenario in the 80s had a U$-Europe War for world market share, a replay of WWI . . . another had a U$-China War for control of Asia . . . still another had a China-USSR war, but that seems less likely now . . .

The expanded EU gives a market . . . how big?? . . . and more importantly, much of it is undeveloped economically and so provides an huge internal market for more developed EU member states.

Zor . . . enjoy your politics forum . . .

 

[Byron In Exile]

Coming up fast on the inside track is the European Super State...

Europe: Requiescant in pace.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Oh please!!! We don't care about the fucking stupid politics. If I wanted to discuss politics I would go to politics forum!

Welcome to the Politics Forum.

 

[MightyZor]

I don't think that my having only about 12 posts gives me any less voice than to you. I may have fewer posts on this website but I have experience with others. Don't call me a dumbfuck you fucking loser.

If you say this is political forum then I will say this: George Bush is a very good president whom I like. I hope he will do something to bomb Saddam's fucking ass to hell. I am against affirmative action, I am a Republican. Happy now?

 

[Rex1960]

Oh please!!! We don't care about the fucking stupid politics. If I wanted to discuss politics I would go to politics forum!

Welcome to the board MightyZor,

The playground is down the floor second door to the right. Have fun.

Friendly hint: if you don't care politics, don't open the thread.
And if you find it fucking stupid, don't bump it up with your oh so clever post.

Thanks for ... nevermind

 

[bluespoke]

I don't think that my having only about 12 posts gives me any less voice than to you. I may have fewer posts on this website but I have experience with others. Don't call me a dumbfuck you fucking loser.

If you say this is political forum then I will say this: George Bush is a very good president whom I like. I hope he will do something to bomb Saddam's fucking ass to hell. I am against affirmative action, I am a Republican. Happy now?

I love newbies with no manners and a poor attitude - NOT.

Sheath was right in her assessment.

 

[sheath]

I don't think that my having only about 12 posts gives me any less voice than to you. I may have fewer posts on this website but I have experience with others. Don't call me a dumbfuck you fucking loser.

If you say this is political forum then I will say this: George Bush is a very good president whom I like. I hope he will do something to bomb Saddam's fucking ass to hell. I am against affirmative action, I am a Republican. Happy now?

Quite true, you have just as much of a voice as I do. However, until you can say something a little brighter than "Bush is doing a darn good job" and "we should light up Saddam's ass", don't knock the political threads.

Go read a newspaper. Current events section.

Don't forget your pocket dictionary!

S.

 

[MightyZor]

Would you care to explain how I have no manners and a poor attitude? Please back up your statement. I think it is you who has no manners because you are the one who's unfriendly to me, newbie.

 

[MightyZor]

What the heck is this? I didn't say "bush does a darn good job" and just because you're so dislike President Bush, doesn't mean you have the right to patronize me as if everyone agrees with you and that I am not familiar with the current issues in the world an politics. You maybe very anti-George Bush, and I happen to be the opposite, please respect my opinion. I don't think I said anything disrespectful about anyone else's political stances.

 

[bluespoke]

Would you care to explain how I have no manners and a poor attitude? Please back up your statement. I think it is you who has no manners because you are the one who's unfriendly to me, newbie.

You barge into an obviously political thread saying -

'WE don't care about the fucking stupid politics'

If you don't like politics don't open overtly political threads.

Who are you to speak for the rest of us (WE)?

You may think that politics are 'fucking stupid', some of us don't.

You expect people to be friendly after an opening salvo like yours?

 

[Rex1960]

Re: Turkey

The most interesting issue to be addressed there is Turkey. It want to join the E.U. bad, and has linked that issue with allowing Bush to use Turkish bases to attack Iraq. So Bush is pressuring the E.U. nations to move toward letting Turkey in, despite its savage repression of Kurds and the fact that geographically it's primarily an Asian, not a European, country.

It will be intruiging to see what happens on that.

Do they really ?
NATO and UN issues have nothing to do with this EU internal thing.
And since I don't know anything about Bush's pressure upon EU... i don't care.

The geographical fact you mentioned has nothing to do with realpolitics. Since Kemal Atatürk founded the modern Turkey, the country more and more leaned towards the west. Just look at their language. Atatürk changed the language from arabian letters into latin letters in order to express the link between Europe and Turkey.

Besides... Russia also is primarely in Asia, not in Europe

Both countries belong to the "European House"

 

[sheath]

What the heck is this? I didn't say "bush does a darn good job" and just because you're so dislike President Bush, doesn't mean you have the right to patronize me as if everyone agrees with you and that I am not familiar with the current issues in the world an politics. You maybe very anti-George Bush, and I happen to be the opposite, please respect my opinion. I don't think I said anything disrespectful about anyone else's political stances.

Please pay attention:

I did not say anything negative about your political stance. I simply said that you should do more in a poltical discussion than toss out trite phrases. It makes you seem as though you are simply trying to play with the big boys rather than have a mind of your own.

And since you are so interested...

Yes, I am Republican. Yes, I vote. Yes, I voted for Bush. And yes, I believe Saddam deserves nothing less than a scud missle straight up his ass...without the courtesy of Astroglide.

Maybe you should read a book on comprehensive reading.

S.

 

[Lost Cause]

You better be engrossed........

'Cause it's important you are! This will keep you occupied....


The Bush administration has received a credible report that Islamic extremists affiliated with al Qaeda took possession of a chemical weapon in Iraq last month or late in October, according to two officials with firsthand knowledge of the report and its source. They said government analysts suspect that the transaction involved the nerve agent VX and that a courier managed to smuggle it overland through Turkey.

It would be the first known acquisition of a nonconventional weapon other than cyanide by al Qaeda or a member of its network. It also would be the most concrete evidence to support the charge, aired for months by President Bush and his advisers, that al Qaeda terrorists receive material assistance in Iraq. If advanced publicly by the White House, the report could be used to rebut Iraq's assertion in a 12,000-page declaration Saturday that it had destroyed its entire stock of chemical weapons.

On the central question whether Iraqi President Saddam Hussein knew about or authorized such a transaction, U.S. analysts are said to have no evidence. Because Hussein's handpicked Special Security Organization, run by his son Qusay, has long exerted tight control over concealed weapons programs, officials said they presume it would be difficult to transfer a chemical agent without the president's knowledge.

"The way we gleaned the information makes us feel confident it is accurate," said one official whose responsibilities are directly involved with the report. "I throw about 99 percent of the spot reports away when I look at them. I didn't throw this one away."

The intended target is unknown, with U.S. speculation focusing on Europe and the United States.


"We are concerned because of al Qaeda's interest in obtaining and using weapons of mass destruction, including chemical, and we continue to seek evidence and intelligence information with regards to their planning activity," said Gordon Johndroe, spokesman for Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge.

Among the uncertainties about the suspected weapon transfer in Iraq is the precise relationship of the Islamic operatives to the al Qaeda network. One official said the transaction involved Asbat al-Ansar, a Lebanon-based Sunni extremist group that recently established an enclave in northern Iraq. Asbat al-Ansar is affiliated with Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda organization and receives funding from it, but officials said they did not know whether its pursuit of chemical weapons was specifically on al Qaeda's behalf.

The government is also uncertain whether the transaction involved a chemical agent alone or an agent in what is known as a weaponized form -- incorporated into a delivery system such as a rocket or a bomb. The latter would be a more efficient killer, but chemical weapons are deadly in either form. Among the reasons for suspecting VX was involved is that it is the most portable of Iraq's chemical weapons, capable of inflicting mass casualties in a quantity that a single courier could transport.

After initial denials, Iraq admitted in the 1990s that it had manufactured tons of VX and two less sophisticated nerve agents, Sarin and Tabun. Its remaining chemical arsenal was limited to blister agents, such as mustard gas, that date back to World War I.

First developed as a weapon by the U.S. Army, VX is an oily, odorless and tasteless liquid that kills on contact with the skin or when inhaled in aerosol form. Like other nerve agents, it is treatable in the first minutes after exposure but otherwise leads swiftly to fatal convulsions and respiratory failure. The United States, a signatory to the Chemical Weapons Convention, destroyed the last of its stocks of VX and other chemical agents on the Johnston Atoll, 825 miles southwest of Hawaii, in November 2000.


During inspections by the U.N. Special Commission, or UNSCOM, in the 1990s, Iraq denied producing any chemical weapon other than mustard gas. Faced with contrary evidence, it eventually acknowledged the manufacture of 3.9 tons of VX and 3,859 tons in all of lethal chemicals. The Baghdad government also admitted filling more than 10,000 bombs, rockets and missile warheads with Sarin. It denied having done so with its most potent agent, VX, but an international commission of experts assembled by UNSCOM said the scientific evidence suggested otherwise.

UNSCOM said in its final report, in January 1999, that it could not account for 1.5 tons of the VX known to have been produced in Iraq, and that it could not establish whether additional quantities had been made.

The U.N. Security Council ordered Iraq in April 1991 to relinquish all capabilities to make biological, chemical and nuclear weapons as well as long-range missiles. The declared basis for the present threat of war is the U.S. view, shared by the Clinton and Bush administrations, that the Baghdad government never came close to complying.

In 1998, the Clinton administration asserted that Iraq provided technical assistance in the construction of a VX production facility in Sudan, undertaken jointly with al Qaeda.

During last year's New York trial of the embassy bombers, prosecution witness Jamal Ahmed al-Fadl, a onetime operative who broke with al Qaeda, offered limited corroboration. He named al Qaeda and Sudanese operatives who had told him they were working together to build a chemical weapons plant in Khartoum.

Only once has a chemical weapon been used successfully in a terrorist attack. During the morning rush hour on March 20, 1995, the Japanese cult Aum Shinrikyo placed packages on five subway trains converging on Tokyo's central station. When punctured, the packages spread vaporized Sarin through the subway cars and then into the stations as the trains pulled in.

In all, the Sarin contaminated 15 stations of the world's busiest subway system, putting 1,000 riders in the hospital and killing 12 of them. Though the attack spread great terror in Japan, it took fewer lives than its authors expected because the Sarin reached many victims in a form that was not sufficiently concentrated.


In general, al Qaeda's pursuit of chemical and biological weapons is well known to U.S. intelligence. A central player in the effort has been Midhat al Mursi, an Egyptian who is among the most-wanted al Qaeda operatives but who remains at large. He ran a development and testing facility for lethal chemicals in a camp -- in Derunta, Afghanistan -- that was eventually renamed "Abu Kebab" after Mursi's nom de guerre.

 

[bluespoke]

LC, I just love your brief bullet point posts!

 

[Byron In Exile]

Re: Re: Turkey

Since Kemal Atatürk founded the modern Turkey, the country more and more leaned towards the west. Just look at their language. Atatürk changed the language from arabian letters into latin letters in order to express the link between Europe and Turkey.

These are superficialities. If China leaned to the West, changed their language to use latin letters, would they be candidates for admission to the EU?

Turks aren't European. Constantinople fell in 1452.

 

[sheath]

Re: You better be engrossed........

'Cause it's important you are! This will keep you occupied....



First developed as a weapon by the U.S. Army, VX is an oily, odorless and tasteless liquid that kills on contact with the skin or when inhaled in aerosol form. Like other nerve agents, it is treatable in the first minutes after exposure but otherwise leads swiftly to fatal convulsions and respiratory failure. The United States, a signatory to the Chemical Weapons Convention, destroyed the last of its stocks of VX and other chemical agents on the Johnston Atoll, 825 miles southwest of Hawaii, in November 2000.

Just a few questions, if you don't mind...

What is the source of this particular article?

I ask because the information quoted above is not entirely accurate. As of last month, stockpiles of VX were still in active storage in Telluride, Co...Richmond, KY...and Anniston, AL. They are, I believe, all prepared for shipment to the incineration facilities in Northern Utah and Atoll islands.

It doesn't really matter that much...just a curiosity on my part. I did extensive studies on the chemical weapons stockpiles just a few years ago, in what started out as a college project and became active involvement in a few environmental groups dedicated to the safe eradication of chemical weapons. The United States does still have the agents...which might actually in the long run be a rather strong insurance policy when it comes to Iraqi foreign policy.

S.

 

[Rex1960]

I don't think that my having only about 12 posts gives me any less voice than to you. I may have fewer posts on this website but I have experience with others. Don't call me a dumbfuck you fucking loser.

If you say this is political forum then I will say this: George Bush is a very good president whom I like. I hope he will do something to bomb Saddam's fucking ass to hell. I am against affirmative action, I am a Republican. Happy now?

I support you re "amount of posts"

But your opening post in this thread looked kinda stupid in my POV, so your "experience" somehow didn't show up, don't you think ?
"Literotica" is not political, but somehow this General Board contents political threads, you might open or not, volunteerly.

To make it clear for you, I for one am not interested in BDSM. So, i don't open any threads related to that topic and I don't go to the BDSM board at all. Maybe that's a concept you might add to your experience.

 

[Rex1960]

Re: Re: Re: Turkey

These are superficialities. If China leaned to the West, changed their language to use latin letters, would they be candidates for admission to the EU?

Turks aren't European. Constantinople fell in 1452.

What do you mean with "Turks aren't European" ?

A part of Turkey is definately part of the European Continent.
Parts of Greece, Bulgaria and former soviet republic Moldavia have turkish speaking majorities.
You'll find Turkey on the list of members of the OECD.

I don't see anything about China that is similar. So you might put that tongue out of your cheek again.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Turkey

What do you mean with "Turks aren't European" ?

A part of Turkey is definately part of the European Continent.
Parts of Greece, Bulgaria and former soviet republic Moldavia have turkish speaking majorities.
You'll find Turkey on the list of members of the OECD.

I don't see anything about China that is similar. So you might put that tongue out of your cheek again.

You listed Turkey's leaning to the West more, and adopting the use of the latin alphabet, as reasons why they belonged in the EU. I was suggesting that those reasons are superficial, and used China as an example.

Geographically, Turkey is separated from Europe by the Mediterranean and Black Seas. If Turkey is geographically part of Europe, then so is Syria, because the difference between them is just a line drawn on a map.

But I don't think geography is really the criteria you want to use for EU membership, since it's the people and their customs and culture that are important, not the ground they're on. What I meant when I said "Turks aren't European" was that the people who live there today are not European, any more than Syrians or Iranians are.