English spelling reform, yes or no?

[renard_ruse]

I'm being roundly attacked and ridiculed in another forum for saying that English has stupid spelling and advocating spelling reform. Also for saying that its wrong to judge someone for misspelling a word and that spelling has zero to do with intelligence.

What do others think? Is spelling reform really that ridiculous an idea? Do you find English spelling rational and sane, or do you find it completely pathetic, illogical, and stupid?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_spelling_reform

 

[Oh_That_Guy]

Words are how we communicate and so spelling is extremely important if one wants to communicate properly to another person with the written word and sometimes even verbally.
I don't care about reform so much as I care about people thinking that spelling doesn't matter. It does.

 

[RawHumor]

British English or American English?

Cuz if you're wanting to get rid of all of those superfluous u's, then I'm with ya.

 

[Sean Renaud]

English by which you primarily mean American English which makes a lot less sense than British English due to having less borrowed words in it's regular vocabulary is completely nonsensical. That's primarily because English is actually a mishmash of just about every European language and a few Asian bits tossed in. Most people and all nerds know what a Kaiju is. That's how you end up with a word spelled colonel and pronounced kernel.

Spelling in general doesn't matter unless you're writing a college paper or perhaps a book and I've caught so many mistakes in books that I'm not sure anybody cares. Online it's important that you are close enough that your meaning is clear however. You'll never catch ME calling some out on its (possessive) vs it's (contraction of it is) or there, their, they're. I know plenty of times I fuck those up especially when I'm in a rush, or drunk. . .or in a rush while drunk.

I have no interest in reform that sounds like considerably more work than it would ever be worth in the long run for several reasons.

Words are how we communicate and so spelling is extremely important if one wants to communicate properly to another person with the written word and sometimes even verbally.
I don't care about reform so much as I care about people thinking that spelling doesn't matter. It does.

Spelling very rarely matters even in proper communication between any random two people as long as you're reasonably close the word that you were trying to. The same way unless your a Hollywood Actor pronunciation is almost never particularly important. As someone who's served in the military and traveled to nearly every state in the Continental US I can honestly say that with the debatable exception of Bostonian I can understand almost every different dialect. Virtually no two places in this country pronounce their words the same and they all make perfect sense for the most part. So does British except when their word choice is entirely different, but that's not a difference in pronunciation that's an entirely different definition of a word.

It matters if you're in a professional environment or educational setting sure. Outside it, eh? There's actually a test that shows not only is spelling relatively unimportant but people don't actually "read" most of the time. It takes too much time and energy so we just sort of look for key letters and let our brains fill in the gaps

 

[theognis]

Reform would make sense, I suppose, but won't happen. I don't care one way or the other, personally, but as an example of a language where spelling makes better sense, in my opinion, in Serbo-Croatian if you know how to pronounce a word correctly you automatically know how to spell it correctly, and if you know how to spell a word correctly you automatically know how to pronounce it correctly. There are five vowels and 25 consonants, and they are basically pronounced the same every time. That's a bit of a simplification, but pretty much true. The Latinic alphabet version of Serbo-Croatian could be a template for spelling reform in English, but as I said, I'm sure it won't happen, at least not in the foreseeable future.

 

[bluebell]

English by which you primarily mean American English which makes a lot less sense than British English due to having less borrowed words in it's regular vocabulary is completely nonsensical. That's primarily because English is actually a mishmash of just about every European language and a few Asian bits tossed in. Most people and all nerds know what a Kaiju is. That's how you end up with a word spelled colonel and pronounced kernel.

Spelling in general doesn't matter unless you're writing a college paper or perhaps a book and I've caught so many mistakes in books that I'm not sure anybody cares. Online it's important that you are close enough that your meaning is clear however. You'll never catch ME calling some out on its (possessive) vs it's (contraction of it is) or there, their, they're. I know plenty of times I fuck those up especially when I'm in a rush, or drunk. . .or in a rush while drunk.

I have no interest in reform that sounds like considerably more work than it would ever be worth in the long run for several reasons.



Spelling very rarely matters even in proper communication between any random two people as long as you're reasonably close the word that you were trying to. The same way unless your a Hollywood Actor pronunciation is almost never particularly important. As someone who's served in the military and traveled to nearly every state in the Continental US I can honestly say that with the debatable exception of Bostonian I can understand almost every different dialect. Virtually no two places in this country pronounce their words the same and they all make perfect sense for the most part. So does British except when their word choice is entirely different, but that's not a difference in pronunciation that's an entirely different definition of a word.

It matters if you're in a professional environment or educational setting sure. Outside it, eh? There's actually a test that shows not only is spelling relatively unimportant but people don't actually "read" most of the time. It takes too much time and energy so we just sort of look for key letters and let our brains fill in the gaps

I want a do-over. Sean, will you please go back in time with me and be my History and Structure of the English Language professor?



I can definitely attest to the idea that nobody reads most of the time, even in professional/academic environments. I work in higher ed where a lot of instructions are sent out to students via email, and it's like a constant arm-wrestle to get them to read anything carefully. Same with our instructors. The thing is, everything HAS to be sent in text as well because many of the processes are so complicated that there needs to be written guidance.

I know a lot of our student teaching supervisors become frustrated because they have student teachers in the field who may be good in the classroom but they don't put the effort into their written assignments, or know how to construct proper emails and sentences. That's a big deal when you're going to be communicating with principals and school district big-wigs. The supervisors struggle to know how to assess those "sideline" skills that are important but don't have actual grading criteria to address in rubric form.

To answer the OP, the idea of reform may have merit, but it will probably not happen as a decided movement. If it did, it would have to start as education reform (ha ha) at the early childhood education level and move upwards through the grades. It would be fine for those children starting out, but incredibly confusing to re-learn as you went along, or even re-learn after you'd already been taught with the current spellings.

 

[Sean Renaud]

if yuo can raed tihs, you hvae a sgtrane mnid, too.
Can you raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs forwrad it.

This was more my point on spelling. I can read that shit withly only a single hiccup.

 

[rosco rathbone]

if yuo can raed tihs, you hvae a sgtrane mnid, too.
Can you raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs forwrad it.

This was more my point on spelling. I can read that shit withly only a single hiccup.

dman taths ptetry cool.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Ain't it though? And similar studies that my google fu is too weak to summon up right now have shown similar things across the board. If your goal is communication spelling isn't the most important thing in the world. It's nice sure but the world will not implode without it.

 

[pfflyerhot]

if yuo can raed tihs, you hvae a sgtrane mnid, too.
Can you raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs forwrad it.

This was more my point on spelling. I can read that shit withly only a single hiccup.

Holy crap... that's crazy cool.

 

[butters]

words you don't want to mix up - or why spelling things right matters:

loser and looser

aloud and allowed

brain and brian

cake and cock/coke/cuke - all applicable

 

[Not Normal]

The english language drives me bat shit crazy on a regular basis. I have a good vocabulary and a good command of the language. I've been published many times, and moderate a web forum. My problem is that my spelling is for shit. None of the rule are consistent (for instance I just spelled that word as consistant) even things like I before E except after C. Why the fuck does it change because a C in the word before the I and E? Its completely nonsensical and annoying as all fuck. I spend more time using google as a spell check than anything.

As to reform, we're americans, so that's NOT an option. The most we ever do concerning reform of ANYTHING is talk about possibly doing it but NEVER following through. The Brits just don't care.

if yuo can raed tihs, you hvae a sgtrane mnid, too.
Can you raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs forwrad it.

This was more my point on spelling. I can read that shit withly only a single hiccup.

I work seasonally grading tests for English Language Learners. Reading that was a pise of cak.

 

[butters]

if yuo can raed tihs, you hvae a sgtrane mnid, too.
Can you raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs forwrad it.

This was more my point on spelling. I can read that shit withly only a single hiccup.

the only reason we can read this is because we more or less know what the individual words are supposed to be - because we learned how to spell. what our brains are doing is their own auto-correct. if we didn't learn how to spell, if spelling was of no importance, we'd not be able to decode that.

 

[theognis]

the only reason we can read this is because we more or less know what the individual words are supposed to be - because we learned how to spell. what our brains are doing is their own auto-correct. if we didn't learn how to spell, if spelling was of no importance, we'd not be able to decode that.

Correct. Plus context.

 

[MNGuy]

Adopt Newspeak, it's double plus good.

 

[Sean Renaud]

the only reason we can read this is because we more or less know what the individual words are supposed to be - because we learned how to spell. what our brains are doing is their own auto-correct. if we didn't learn how to spell, if spelling was of no importance, we'd not be able to decode that.

While that's true that would make correct spelling something that is mostly appropriate for young children to get them trained up, not something you should be nagging adults about who have already learned it all.

 

[DesEsseintes]

While that's true that would make correct spelling something that is mostly appropriate for young children to get them trained up, not something you should be nagging adults about who have already learned it all.

Except once you have gone to the trouble of learning it, why would you not use it?

The use of proper spelling, punctuation and grammar is a courtesy from author to reader: it says that the reader is worth time and care.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Except once you have gone to the trouble of learning it, why would you not use it?

The use of proper spelling, punctuation and grammar is a courtesy from author to reader: it says that the reader is worth time and care.

Because it's mostly unnecessary and painful.

And no proper spelling and yadda yadda doesn't tell the "reader" this is worth the time and care. It mostly shows that you aren't part of the club. Nearly everything you can think of has it's own lingo for reasons. Believe me if I go onto an MMO (gamer speak) and ask which class I should pick if I want DPS instead of AOE nobody stops to look it up.

 

[girlsmiley]

Is it wrong (unforgivably so) or just incorrect?

Seriously.

 

[Saint Peter]

Give all the perfect spellers a math(s) test!

 

[Saint Peter]

Show me I am worth the time and care by not fucking up the use of negative exponents.

 

[girlsmiley]

Give all the perfect spellers a math(s) test!

Boring.

How 'bout a bat fight?

 

[Saint Peter]

No head shots.

I have my modeling career to think of.

 

[Saint Peter]

Pussy.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Did AJ quit Lit??