English from India

[elfin_odalisque]

A lot of our words have an Indian origin,

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" refers to a small almost valueless Indian coin called a dam. The 'n', I don't know.

Pyjamas, avatar and a host of others have an Indian heritage.

 

[LaRascasse]

A lot of our words have an Indian origin,

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" refers to a small almost valueless Indian coin called a dam. The 'n', I don't know.

Pyjamas, avatar and a host of others have an Indian heritage.

Bungalow and thug too.

Thug comes from the Anglicized version of the name of a cult of ancient highwaymen who would kidnap travelers and strangle them with a silk noose. Quite prolific too, given that their victims are told to number in the thousands.

 

[StrangeLife]

A lot of our words have an Indian origin,

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" refers to a small almost valueless Indian coin called a dam. The 'n', I don't know.

I simply had to hit the mighty Goog to verify this one. And lo and behold - It's true!

Well, there are diverse opinions on the subject, but the Indian coin theory is widely accepted. The "n" is a Western addition caused by numismatically challenged speakers.

Thanks for teaching me something new.

http://www.anythinganywhere.com/commerce/coins/coinpics/indi-mug-v81-dam-dogam-1001-1.jpg

 

[sr71plt]

In the case of that phrase as famously used in Gone With The Wind (and ever afterward because of the use in that movie), there's no Indian context at all. The director used it to shock with a specific swear word, for which he paid a fine (gladly, I'm sure).

 

[lovecraft68]

Imagine that, "Damn" was an offense.

And here we are in a world where Porn is still the number one search on the internet and the average music video is pretty much softcore porn.

My how we've evolved/devolved in a relatively short period of time.

 

[Sammael Bard]

A lot of our words have an Indian origin,

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" refers to a small almost valueless Indian coin called a dam. The 'n', I don't know.

Pyjamas, avatar and a host of others have an Indian heritage.

Jungle, Pundit, Guru and a host of other words too have made their place in the Modern English Dictionary, that are of Indian origin.

Quite an interesting subject. I read a similar article in the newspaper a few months earlier. Went something along the lines of how a language is influenced by the people, place and culture and its supposed merits/demerits.

 

[R. Richard]

In the case of that phrase as famously used in Gone With The Wind (and ever afterward because of the use in that movie), there's no Indian context at all. The director used it to shock with a specific swear word, for which he paid a fine (gladly, I'm sure).

The author of Gone With The Wind, is Margaret Mitchell.

 

[StrangeLife]

The author of Gone With The Wind, is Margaret Mitchell.

Was the same phrase used in the book?

I must admit to never having read the thing...

 

[sr71plt]

Yep, it is. That, of course, doesn't have much to do with the movie director's decision to use it in the movie and be fined because of the movie standards of that day. And none of it means that either Mitchell or the movie director where thinking of a word-origin connection to an Indian word. Dollars to donuts, both Mitchell and the movie director had the swear word "damn" firmly implanted in their brains as the origin of their use of this phrase--not a unit of Indian money. Nor do I think they were pulling up any earlier use of the phrase. One can really hang too much on word origins as controlling any use of the word.

 

[PayDay]

This thread is entirely subjective and assumes slang has only one origin.

Feel free to hate on this and post evidence to suggest otherwise.

...but: Slang use is slang because the origin is variable.

Neat theory though it has no basis in reality for the usage of context of slang.

 

[PennLady]

The fact that the phrase has an Indian origin and the fact that it was used in the movie for other reasons aren't mutually exclusive things. Just because Mitchell and David O. Selznick and Victor Fleming didn't know its origin doesn't mean that's not the origin.

But I don't think that Mitchell or Fleming had that in mind when writing the novel or directing the movie, respectively.

 

[PayDay]

The fact that the phrase has an Indian origin and the fact that it was used in the movie for other reasons aren't mutually exclusive things. Just because Mitchell and David O. Selznick and Victor Fleming didn't know its origin doesn't mean that's not the origin.

But I don't think that Mitchell or Fleming had that in mind when writing the novel or directing the movie, respectively.

This----^ Glad I'm not the only one.

 

[sr71plt]

The fact that the phrase has an Indian origin and the fact that it was used in the movie for other reasons aren't mutually exclusive things. Just because Mitchell and David O. Selznick and Victor Fleming didn't know its origin doesn't mean that's not the origin.

But I don't think that Mitchell or Fleming had that in mind when writing the novel or directing the movie, respectively.

Hoookay, let me put it this way: I frankly don't believe that any Indian ever said the phrase, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a dam" at any time before it was written by Margaret Mitchell, using the word "damn."

 

[PennLady]

Hoookay, let me put it this way: I frankly don't believe that any Indian ever said the phrase, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a dam" at any time before it was written by Margaret Mitchell, using the word "damn."

No, they probably didn't.

 

[lovecraft68]

I ceased to give a damn a few posts ago. Even an interesting bit of trivia has to become someone trying to be right.

But I guess when one has no life whatsoever, these things are important.

 

[PayDay]

I ceased to give a damn a few posts ago. Even an interesting bit of trivia has to become someone trying to be right.

But I guess when one has no life whatsoever, these things are important.

NoU!

...but at least the teams are obvious.

 

[colddiesel]

The Future?

Possibly a more interesting aspect of Indian English may be its future role. English is an official language at a Federal level in India and in many of the states. A compulsory subject in schools, it is also the language of higher education and (Larger) corporate business. I have seen estimates that more than 400 million people in India use English every day, more than the whole of North America.

Maybe in years to come Indian English could replace other forms of English as the new norm.

 

[PayDay]

Possibly a more interesting aspect of Indian English may be its future role. English is an official language at a Federal level in India and in many of the states. A compulsory subject in schools, it is also the language of higher education and (Larger) corporate business. I have seen estimates that more than 400 million people in India use English every day, more than the whole of North America.

Maybe in years to come Indian English could replace other forms of English as the new norm.

Word?

 

[SamScribble]

If damn comes from a corruption of dam, the name of a small Indian coin, it arrived by a somewhat circuitous route.

Damn (with the final n) has been common since the Middle English period (1100-1500). It seems likely that we Brits borrowed it from Old French damner which, in turn, was probably derived from the Latin damnare, meaning ‘to inflict a loss’.

Just sayin'.

 

[oggbashan]

If damn comes from a corruption of dam, the name of a small Indian coin, it arrived by a somewhat circuitous route.

Damn (with the final n) has been common since the Middle English period (1100-1500). It seems likely that we Brits borrowed it from Old French damner which, in turn, was probably derived from the Latin damnare, meaning ‘to inflict a loss’.

Just sayin'.

There were similar expressions:

"Not worth a maravedi" used by Gilbert and Sullivan.

Gilbert meant an ancient coin from Cordoba, which was devalued to be absolutely worthless, but other maravedis did have value.

 

[PennLady]

Possibly a more interesting aspect of Indian English may be its future role. English is an official language at a Federal level in India and in many of the states. A compulsory subject in schools, it is also the language of higher education and (Larger) corporate business. I have seen estimates that more than 400 million people in India use English every day, more than the whole of North America.

Maybe in years to come Indian English could replace other forms of English as the new norm.

My dad loves to ask people which country has the most English speakers, and then tell them it's India. He's like that.

 

[sr71plt]

My dad loves to ask people which country has the most English speakers, and then tell them it's India. He's like that.

Much like the "which country has the most Muslims?" The last I knew, it was Indonesia.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Try shampoo


shampoo (v.) Look up shampoo at Dictionary.com1762, "to massage," from Anglo-Indian shampoo, from Hindi champo, imperative of champna "to press, knead the muscles," perhaps from Sanskrit capayati "pounds, kneads."

Meaning "wash the hair" first recorded 1860; extended 1954 to carpets, upholstery, etc. Related: Shampooed; shampooing.shampoo (n.) Look up shampoo at Dictionary.com"soap for shampooing," 1866, from shampoo (v.).

Try, swastika, from sanskrit meaning 'fortunate'.

 

[subdued_passion]

Reading this thread reminded me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln5QgeCL1fs

 

[Tio_Narratore]

The phrase, "not worth a tinker's damn" has been around in English from at least the late 18th century, and does appear in Thoreau's writing in the early 19th. It refers, obviously, to the utter lack of value of a curse offered by such an accursed lot. If we wanted to be creatively philological, we could make up a story about how the Tinkers - Gypsies - originated in India and traveled over Europe offering to pay for things with worthless Indian coins, but I think we would be wrong.