Endless chapters

[NoJo]

I was recently persuaded by a reader to continue one of my new stories. I added and submitted three very short chapters in succession over the last few days, before the story reached a natural conclusion and I ended it somewhat abruptly.

How some authors here manage to churn out endless chapters without getting bored is beyond me (not that I've actually read any of them -- none of the multi-chapter serialised stories I've seen here cater to my weird kinks)

But they're in good company: Dickens wrote a lot of his stuff in this way -serialising some of his best work, often altering his planned chapters based on reader feedback.

It seems like a good way to build a loyal readership.

 

[NotWise]

It seems like a good way to build a loyal readership.

Maybe if you have a good story to write and you can stay into it. Otherwise, it's just work.

 

[TadOverdon]

The idea of posting the beginning of something that I haven't finished just appalls me. "Tad" did this a couple of times. They'd get bored or stuck and things would be out there unfinished for years.

 

[SimonDoom]

The way I see it, it's no different from most TV series, or a series of detective novels by writers like Lee Child or Michael Connelly. Once viewers or readers find a basic story formula they like, they want to keep going back to it, show after show, story after story. There's nothing wrong with that, nor is there anything wrong with an author wanting to meet that need by writing stories in a series, one after another.

TV series and book series end abruptly all the time, with no discernible ending. Nobody bats an eye -- that's just the way it happens. Not for all shows, but for some.

It's a bit different if you start a series that has a particular story arc that is introduced in the first chapter, and you leave readers hanging. But there's nothing wrong with starting a series of semi-autonomous chapters and proceeding at whatever pace you want. It's not realistic to expect that a series of that type would be fully finished before the first chapter is published, because often, as with Dickens, the author doesn't even know, exactly, where the series is going to end up.

 

[KeithD]

The way I see it, it's no different from most TV series, or a series of detective novels by writers like Lee Child or Michael Connelly. Once viewers or readers find a basic story formula they like, they want to keep going back to it, show after show, story after story. There's nothing wrong with that, nor is there anything wrong with an author wanting to meet that need by writing stories in a series, one after another.

TV series and book series end abruptly all the time, with no discernible ending. Nobody bats an eye -- that's just the way it happens. Not for all shows, but for some.

It's a bit different if you start a series that has a particular story arc that is introduced in the first chapter, and you leave readers hanging. But there's nothing wrong with starting a series of semi-autonomous chapters and proceeding at whatever pace you want. It's not realistic to expect that a series of that type would be fully finished before the first chapter is published, because often, as with Dickens, the author doesn't even know, exactly, where the series is going to end up.

I remarked on this yesterday (in the context of the top lists). There are two kinds of continuing series like this. The Dickins kind, which was written in another time for an entirely different-paced and ranged world from what we have today, is more like the TV soap opera, which is slowly dying out--a rambling saga with a daily cliff hanger to transition into the next installment. The other type of serial is one with one overarching story arc but largely discrete episodes, each of which has a finished-off story in it. I suspect (but don't know) that we get more of the former here than the latter. I think the former get tedious and it's really hard for a reader to jump in and start reading on chapter 25 (so why include it on a "top" list?), whereas the reader can get a complete story by jumping in to read episode 25 of the latter variety.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I remarked on this yesterday (in the context of the top lists). There are two kinds of continuing series like this. The Dickins kind, which was written in another time for an entirely different-paced and ranged world from what we have today, is more like the TV soap opera, which is slowly dying out--a rambling saga with a daily cliff hanger to transition into the next installment. The other type of serial is one with one overarching story arc but largely discrete episodes, each of which has a finished-off story in it. I suspect (but don't know) that we get more of the former here than the latter. I think the former get tedious and it's really hard for a reader to jump in and start reading on chapter 25 (so why include it on a "top" list?), whereas the reader can get a complete story by jumping in to read episode 25 of the latter variety.

If we're mapping the first kind to soapies, I'd compare the second to sitcoms, where a typical episode boils down to "the order of things is disrupted, and then restored". It's the difference between a road trip and a merry-go-round ride.

There are also hybrid structures. Some crime shows, for instance, will start with the sitcom-style structure where every episode is a self-contained story, and then start developing a multi-episode arc. When it's done right, the self-contained episodes can help draw viewers in and the longer arc can keep them watching.

 

[lovecraft68]

Reasons for endless chapters

Author doesn't quite know how to end a series so keeps treading water

Author has become so attached to the story themselves they don't want it to end.

Author is the type that is addicted to the feedback and comments so no longer cares
about the quality or integrity of the story, they're now just pandering

Author is the type to be obsessed with scores and top lists and knows the advantage and will keep playing it up. There are long series with multiple monthly wins on here, not bad making some money on a free site with no effort other than, look more stuff from those same people.

The latest is the people using lit, and their series, to make money on Patreon. offering people sneak peeks at chapters-that they will eventually see for free anyway-for a few dollars a month and getting an income from it, so why end it?

There is an all time offender there that I'm sure many know the name of for seeing their minions all over the annual awards the last couple of years with a 'story' well over a hundred chapters and making quite a bit of money every month, and getting nominated for awards.

If you haven't ended a story by the time it hits triple digits, you never will, never intend to and are bilking the site, and people. out of money. Laurel/Manu are far kinder, or maybe just less mercenary than I am because I would not be fond of someone using my platform to attach another platform to it, and make an income.

So there are your reasons why we see the never ending stories. I'm sure other people can come up with other reasons.

 

[KeithD]

It might simply be because folks like writing that way. There certainly are readers here who will read it. Not everything has to be negative or a great conspiracy.

I think when I started weaving stories in my mind--at a pretty early age--my story just went on and on and on for years. I wasn't writing then, or that's how it might have come out. It wasn't really anyone else's business if that's how I wanted to weave stories. I think it did enable my writing later.

 

[gunhilltrain]

It might simply be because folks like writing that way. There certainly are readers here who will read it. Not everything has to be negative or a great conspiracy.

I think when I started weaving stories in my mind--at a pretty early age--my story just went on and on and on for years. I wasn't writing then, or that's how it might have come out. It wasn't really anyone else's business if that's how I wanted to weave stories. I think it did enable my writing later.

Sometimes I don't have a formal series, but I just add sequels as they come to to mind. So sue me - I sometimes prefer having some flexibility. Like life itself, not every story comes to a neat conclusion. These usually don't go on for that long; there aren't endless chapters. In one case I have a chapter (not on this site) that jumps ahead ten years.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't think there's any cause for judgment against people who start a series, just for the heck of it, and they're not sure where they're going to go with it, but the readers like it for whatever reason, and they just keep going and going with it because of the positive feedback. I'm sure we all have ideas in our heads of series we think that match this description, but there's no need to be specific and to ID them. But it seems perfectly OK to me if the readers are happy (and I think there are plenty of examples -- especially with some Sci Fi and Fantasy series -- in which the readers ARE happy), and the author is happy.

In my case, when I start a series, I have a clear story arc in mind, and I pretty much know what the ending will be, so when I delay in getting on with the series I can't plead the same excuse. I'm just lazy and undisciplined, and I admit it. I'm sure it's irksome for some readers. I'll get around to finishing my series, someday, and from now on I'm not going to start any series unless I have finished the chapters ahead of time or know with great confidence I can finish them in a timely way. Lesson learned. I hope.

 

[KeithD]

My first novel-length work was the first in a series of six international crime/espionage novels that were commissioned by a tourist ministry to provide beach resort reads that encouraged tourists to come off the beaches and experience what else the island nation had to offer for them to spend their money on. I knew it was a multiple book deal to start with, so I started with the concept of characters and a story arc over it all, with each novel presenting and solving a mystery. The series came out to half a million words and covered twenty-one years of the protagonists' lives (what became a husband-wife detecting couple). Each one featured a different international crime or espionage operation still in existence upon the collapse of the cold war. I think I could have gone on and on with that series happily, if the commission hadn't stopped and I hadn't moved off the island.

I have such series here that have gone on and on--the Clint Folsom series, the Hardesty series, the Sam Winterberry collection of stories . . .

 

[Bramblethorn]

I don't think there's any cause for judgment against people who start a series, just for the heck of it, and they're not sure where they're going to go with it, but the readers like it for whatever reason, and they just keep going and going with it because of the positive feedback. I'm sure we all have ideas in our heads of series we think that match this description, but there's no need to be specific and to ID them. But it seems perfectly OK to me if the readers are happy (and I think there are plenty of examples -- especially with some Sci Fi and Fantasy series -- in which the readers ARE happy), and the author is happy.

Not an earth-shattering observation, but I think a lot of the hostility towards never-ending stories comes from the competitive side of Literotica. If these stories weren't competing with others for contest money and space in the top lists, I suspect there'd be a lot more willingness to live and let live.

 

[PennameWombat]

Not an earth-shattering observation, but I think a lot of the hostility towards never-ending stories comes from the competitive side of Literotica. If these stories weren't competing with others for contest money and space in the top lists, I suspect there'd be a lot more willingness to live and let live.

Indeed. The crux of the nub. I was here for quite a while before I noticed/found the Top Lists. I thought, 'hmm, I have a couple of stories with very good scores...' but, well not good enough. Now, I haven't read all 138 chapters to know if chapter 100 in the same series is the best of the series, much less it truly should be the all time SF&F #1. Or if there is some other story anywhere in SF&F that's better. But, finding the Top List for SF&F has done nothing much to point me to stories to read, since it's almost all stuff deep into long-running series.

I admire that folks have that level of focus to spend that much time both writing, and reading, those. I'm way too scattered. But clearly those stories are serving a need for some readers here. I see no reason why they shouldn't exist.

And the site does provide a specific "Story Series" indexed by Category.

But this is all well-trodden territory here...

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't think there's any cause for judgment against people who start a series, just for the heck of it, and they're not sure where they're going to go with it, but the readers like it for whatever reason, and they just keep going and going with it because of the positive feedback. I'm sure we all have ideas in our heads of series we think that match this description, but there's no need to be specific and to ID them. But it seems perfectly OK to me if the readers are happy (and I think there are plenty of examples -- especially with some Sci Fi and Fantasy series -- in which the readers ARE happy), and the author is happy.

In my case, when I start a series, I have a clear story arc in mind, and I pretty much know what the ending will be, so when I delay in getting on with the series I can't plead the same excuse. I'm just lazy and undisciplined, and I admit it. I'm sure it's irksome for some readers. I'll get around to finishing my series, someday, and from now on I'm not going to start any series unless I have finished the chapters ahead of time or know with great confidence I can finish them in a timely way. Lesson learned. I hope.

I'm not judging, nor am I saying its a conspiracy as Keith mentioned. The thread is titled endless chapters, not long series that are finished or the author will finish, but the run on meandering opuses that will never end, and I gave reasons for why I think that happens, ranging from the inability or lack of desire to come up with a true ending or milking it for number and monetary gain.

As people say all the time when this comes up, you can write 900k words and if "The end" isn't typed you do not have a complete story, as Keith and Bramble mentioned you have a soap opera/serial, which used to be the rage, but today's ADD instant gratification generation doesn't care for, except for here.

Here is a site where whether its the 50 chapter series or the same trope over and over (babysitter, boss, teacher etc..) they'll happily eat the same lunch every day for the rest of their lives.

The people who do finish a long series will still get readers bitching they ended it, no matter how long it is because they prefer same old and comfort over anything different that might make them think

 

[BiscuitHammer]

Usually I come up with my premise and know where a story should end, and there's a variable number of chapters to get there, depending on how complex the narrative is. I rarely write one-shots,I seem to be a series writer.

The Alexaverse got ahead of me. It was my first story here and I meant for it to be around five or six chapters. It's currently forty-four and not even close to finished.

I like writing long and involved stories, and mostly it's for myself. If other people are along for the ride and enjoy themselves, great. But to slightly adapt an Ivan Drago quote, 'I write for me!'

And I like long stories. I seemingly can't write a short story to save my life. No NaNoWriMo for me...

 

[NoJo]

Conan Doyle tried unsuccessfully to kill Holmes off, but back he came by "popular demand" - a force that has no pull on me, as this isn't my bread and butter.

And as LoveCraft said, my post was more about those stories here that writers don't seem to be able to end.