Emotional Vs.Mental Submissiveness

[~Dream~]

Is there really a difference?
Could a person really only be "submissive in his/her heart and not quite have adapted it to their mind yet?

I am asking these questions as I feel it is my plight.
In my heart,I love my Master with no doubt at all.
I truly FEEL that I wish to serve Him
He meets my Emotional needs of:
1 the need to be loved
2.the need to Belong(my friends meet that also)
3.the need to be valued & recognized(I admittedly struggle with that one)
Sometimes I feel that although He assures me I do,that somehow I dont deserve to be my Master's slave..

I have the need to achieve both for myself and for Him but I believe it is mentally ,which I am lacking..
I know that I do like myself ,however I want to learn to accept the challenges and changes that a D/S Bdsm Lifestyle will be bringing to my life.

Is there any suggestions that anyone can offer to help me to accept the fact that everyone makes mistakes and that maybe sometimes submissiveness " just takes a while to "really sink in?"

I want my Master to control all of me ,However He cant & wont do it "forcefully" ,intellectually I know that that is abuse" anyways,
"Submission" is a free gift" a CHOICE by the sub, a choice I have made but still wonder as wonderful as it Feels to have Him in control,"why do I still struggle to take it back?"

any and all responses appreciated ,I truly hope all of you will allow me to start back on a "clean slate" as all of our relationships are "unique" here as we ourselves are as individuals..thank-you "Dream"

 

[lovetoread]

To me,and please remember this is only an opinion,they are almost one and the same.

If in your mind you cannot or dont want to submit...then how can you say you emotionally submit?

Would that not be a lie?

It would be like me telling you that I love you and want no other,but in my mind I'm thinking that Mr Right is just around the corner.

 

[redelicious]

Sometimes, especially of late, I wonder if the reverse is true . . .

Can you mentally submit all of yourself without being totally submissive in your heart? In other words can you give yourself to a Dom/me without loving him/her? Would you want one you knew didn't love you?

Now, I am not talking about play situations, please understand.

I just wonder with all the trust and respect that is so very important to the relationship, when and if does love become part of the equation?

 

[~Dream~]

LTR.....

To me,and please remember this is only an opinion,they are almost one and the same.

If in your mind you cannot or dont want to submit...then how can you say you emotionally submit?

Would that not be a lie?

It would be like me telling you that I love you and want no other,but in my mind I'm thinking that Mr Right is just around the corner.

______________________________
yes LTR i think I hear what you are saying ,I guess that to me, my mind is where my very strong "will" is at and thats what I'm having trouble with , loving Him IS TRUTH to me they =the same thing..however willing my mind to submit as easily as my body does is a totally different story.. In my mind I DO submit , but each day there are "occurences" where we do not agree on things(cause we are after all "different people).. and in that lies the problem .. I feel that the TRUST .. 100% trust must indeed take alot of time and especially so if you have been hurt ;like I have before.

 

[~Dream~]

Red..

Sometimes, especially of late, I wonder if the reverse is true . . .

Can you mentally submit all of yourself without being totally submissive in your heart? In other words can you give yourself to a Dom/me without loving him/her? Would you want one you knew didn't love you?

Now, I am not talking about play situations, please understand.

I just wonder with all the trust and respect that is so very important to the relationship, when and if does love become part of the equation?

________________________ those are very good questions also Red, thank-you...


personally I would NOT submit too a Dom /mes that didnt love me. look at it like this, that person is being "trusted" with your very LIFE at times.. correct? well then I'd much rather it be someone who really cares for me than perhaps "someone all wrapped up in themselves"... It is more meaningful to the relationship , in general,if Love is there.. JMHO and I own it.

 

[redelicious]

Re: Red..

________________________ those are very good questions also Red, thank-you...


personally I would NOT submit too a Dom /mes that didnt love me. look at it like this, that person is being "trusted" with your very LIFE at times.. correct? well then I'd much rather it be someone who really cares for me than perhaps "someone all wrapped up in themselves"... It is more meaningful to the relationship , in general,if Love is there.. JMHO and I own it.

Hmm, I don't mean to imply if the Dom doesn't love his sub that He is wrapped up in Himself, or that He doesn't at least care for her. I just wonder how far the relationship can go. I think you are right about it being more meaningful when love is present.

Again if play is your thing then it is a non issue, but if you are looking for more . . .

Thank you for responding to me.

 

[SexyChele]

Sometimes, especially of late, I wonder if the reverse is true . . .

Can you mentally submit all of yourself without being totally submissive in your heart? In other words can you give yourself to a Dom/me without loving him/her? Would you want one you knew didn't love you?

Now, I am not talking about play situations, please understand.

I just wonder with all the trust and respect that is so very important to the relationship, when and if does love become part of the equation?

Yes, I think is it very possible to submit mentally and not emotionally. Frankly, for me, I find that to be much more easily done. At first, anyway.

Trust and respect are things earned. I can trust and respect some one without being "in love" with them. It doesn't mean that I don't care about them - I do. And very much so. And I think there are many Dom/mes that feel the same.

For me, love is a delicate emotion. To love some one, or submit emotionally, means that you are entering the realm of being hurt very badly. A Dom and sub can negotiate which things will or won't be participated in, and both can follow those directives. But, when the heart is involved, emotions become complex and it is far easier to get hurt.

On an earlier post, I had mentioned that I do not "attach" quickly. By that, I had meant that I do not fall in love easily. I can develop a close, caring relationship with some one without being in love with them. However, I would expect, as time continues and the relationship deepens, that love might grow from it.

 

[redelicious]

Yes, I think is it very possible to submit mentally and not emotionally. Frankly, for me, I find that to be much more easily done. At first, anyway.

Trust and respect are things earned. I can trust and respect some one without being "in love" with them. It doesn't mean that I don't care about them - I do. And very much so. And I think there are many Dom/mes that feel the same.

For me, love is a delicate emotion. To love some one, or submit emotionally, means that you are entering the realm of being hurt very badly. A Dom and sub can negotiate which things will or won't be participated in, and both can follow those directives. But, when the heart is involved, emotions become complex and it is far easier to get hurt.

On an earlier post, I had mentioned that I do not "attach" quickly. By that, I had meant that I do not fall in love easily. I can develop a close, caring relationship with some one without being in love with them. However, I would expect, as time continues and the relationship deepens, that love might grow from it.

Thank you for your answer. I tend to agree that you can trust and respect with out being "in love," and still care very much for the other person.

I guess for me looking at BDSM, it seems that all these elements of trust and respect, etc are intensified - and that it would be harder to resisit the urge to become emotionally involved (or to want that involvement).

Having clear bounderies is key. I think being comfortable and secure with who you are first would also be important.

much to think about . . .

 

[redelicious]

It just occurred to me, Dream, that I hijacked your thread.

Very sorry about that.

To answer the initial question, I do think that it is possible to have submitted your heart to your Dom without your mind totally being there. I think it is a learning process and takes time. If you have submitted emotionally then you at least have the desire and passion for it - hopefully your mind will follow. This is in part what His guidance is for, yes?

Hmmm, I do think however that if after time your mind isn't in the right place that it would cause great conflict, not just between you and your Dom, but internally.


Of course, this is all conjecture on my part - but I thought I would share anyway.

 

[~Dream~]

thank you Red& Chele also

It just occurred to me, Dream, that I hijacked your thread.

Very sorry about that.

To answer the initial question, I do think that it is possible to have submitted your heart to your Dom without your mind totally being there. I think it is a learning process and takes time. If you have submitted emotionally then you at least have the desire and passion for it - hopefully your mind will follow. This is in part what His guidance is for, yes?

Hmmm, I do think however that if after time your mind isn't in the right place that it would cause great conflict, not just between you and your Dom, but internally.


Of course, this is all conjecture on my part - but I thought I would share anyway.

__________________________________________
you can Hi-jack my thread any darn time you want RED--np at all ,your questions AND answers are very thought provoking as were Chele'ss and I thank her for them..
Yes I feel for me , it is soo much easier to love wuth my heart cause I am a some would say) sickingly) touchy-feely person ya know? I FEEL 1st then think about it later,for real .. I leave all the "logical " stuff for Master to deal with

I have alot of Pride and a very Stubborn "will' that tries to always "take back the control" it feels like sometimes there's an Evil little mini-dream " inside that doesnt wanna let me submit and when I THINK about it it's really just normal to not want to TOTALLy LOSE yourself in someone else"

 

[iam4Her]

Hi , i have been lurking around here for some time, and it is now time to introduce myself here.
i am Mistress Marlene´s slave and property.
English is my second language and i do my best.

the need to belong, to be loved and to be valued is the general beautiful needs we all have no matter if it is a vanilla relationship, bedroom play or a 24/7 relationship.

The subject of learning to "sink in" is interesting.
Yes, you can learn a lot by reading and build up a database in your head of what people say and write, but for lessons to really "sink in" is a RT thing.
The interaction between a Dominant and a submissive in RT is really the time when things can "sink in" if you have a need to learn the way a Dominant is and what He/She expects from you.

A good example: you come home after a hard day of work with a big amount of mental stress and are completely exhausted and have a big need to rest and talk about your stress.
When you come home you will find that your Dom/me has also has had a bad day and needs your serving. He/She wants a massage, a wonderful dinner, and also wants you to clean out His/Her office.

In this situation, you know that your Dom/me ´s pleasure comes first and you have to cope with your on exhaustion and stress, swallow it down and please your Dom/me first before it is time for your own needs. This is a complex situation, both mentally and emotionally, that you have to go through.

In a online relationship, you can easily decide to not turn on the computer until you have rested, or easily make up a couple of lies that the online Dom/me never can check the truth in...ohhh, the computer crashed…we have had a power outage here...Literotica didn’t want to open up…aso.

The need and want to submit can never be faced for yourself until you go through real time, and real time is the real school for D/s.

The interaction of real time when you have a conversation and have to think through your words and actions in seconds and not in hours, ( compared to online ) is a huge difference.

What interacts in the seconds in a real conversation is the real face of who you are, and you will learn how to evaluate yourself, through the eyes of your Dom/me

In an online situation you can easily take hours and days to think through a question, which can make the Dom/me actually lose His/Her real Domination over the situation.
Its called "Topping from the bottom, as we know

The reason why i write all this comes down to your questions about that you sometimes don’t feel that you deserve to be your Masters slave, and how you can make things to sink in.

you can be loved, valued and appreciated by your friends, parents, boyfriend, Master, Mistress, your dog, your cat, and your neighbours, there is nothing wrong with that, but these needs are things that are not the things that makes a D/s relationship special compared to the others.

The interaction eye to eye, word to word, is the school how to learn and make things "sink in", but still, it will always be up to you if you want to listen , then learn, then show what you have been taught.

To clearify myself here, i am not saying that online realtionship is something bad, it is a wonderful start of what can become real.
Online is how i met my Mistress and it made me learn alot of who She is and what She expected.
And yes you can still learn some stuff online about yourself, but loneliness infront of a computer can make anyone question themself.

iam4Her
proud property of
Mistress Marlene

 

[WillowPuss]

Firstly – welcome iam4Her. I am so pleased to ‘meet’ you.

I agree with all you have to say J

I will attempt to put my thoughts down – but they may ramble a little.

To my way of thinking, submitting emotionally is no more than falling head over heels in love with another. It is wonderful, it is a joy, and most people experience it once or twice in their lifetime.

But … it is not submitting BDSM style.

To my mind, BDSM begins in the mind. You have got to have the need to submit fully. Submit your emotions, your body, and your very soul.

Many men and women think they have the desire to submit.
Many men and women then find that no matter how much they have fantasised over it, no matter how hard they really try, they find they just cannot let go. They have the need to retain a piece of themselves – they refuse to give over control to their Dom/me.

There is no shame in this. There is no shame in admitting to themselves that they just are either not ready to submit, or, that they are just not naturally submissive in their nature.


So … what we are left with is a couple who are deeply in love. Who enjoy kinky sex wherever and whenever they can.
And … there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. In fact … more power to them for recognising the fact.

 

[~Dream~]

thanks for the posts Iam4Her and Willow

For once I am not gonna take them so seriously as you Both are entitled to your views as much as I am,so here goes..
You both raised some valid points and since you dont know me that well Iam4her , I shall let you know that I have had skin-to skin contact with my Master Artful and we spent 5 wonderful days and nights getting to know each other better nd I found out in those days ,just how fully submissive I truly am
I had absolutely NO problem ,as He could tell you Himself with carrying out His EVERY wish and Desire,I thouroughly enjoyed it and only wish it would,ve lasted longer..*sigh*...

However I will be moving to Arkansas where He lives in just less than 9 mo's now,I cannot wait.. Being "In love' with "each other" only enhances our BDSM relationship,it makes our "bond" even stronger.. I truly believe that the reasons` I question myself , or worry about things is because as you said ,I am 4her... I do get very lonely in front of the computer and I am used to Master's voice now and the FEEL'' of Him and I miss that terribly,really I do.. I know He misses me just as much and while that helps,it still doesnt take away from the very REAL pain that I feel at not being able to "serve Him" the way I want ,the way He deserves.. I dont really care if anyone else thinks I'm 'submissive' or not, I KNOW I am , I only need Master's approval for what I do, noone else's,period.. I am His mind, heart ,body & soul and I just have to remind myself that He accepts me , just as I am ..

 

[quietwillow]

Mental vs Emotional

Another point I though of was with regards to your saying sometimes you struggle with "wanting to take back your submission". Many of us do that because (at least in the US) we are taught to think independantly and not "rely" on men.

So when we find we are submissive it is quite a shock that sometimes what society says we should be is not necessarily what is good for us.

So we have that conflict going on and until we overcome that through lots of hard work and discipline it pops up from time to time.

Just my 2 cents worth.

quiet



"To thine own self be true... the rest will follow"

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Red..

________________________ those are very good questions also Red, thank-you...


personally I would NOT submit too a Dom /mes that didnt love me. look at it like this, that person is being "trusted" with your very LIFE at times.. correct? well then I'd much rather it be someone who really cares for me than perhaps "someone all wrapped up in themselves"... It is more meaningful to the relationship , in general,if Love is there.. JMHO and I own it.

Are you saying that because a Dom/me is does not love or is in love with a submissive, that they cannot be trusted?

That is absolute hogwash. Men and women are murdered everyday by those who claim to "love" or
be in love with" them.

Love does not equal trust.

Eb

 

[tassie]

tee hee..hogwash...heeeeeeee

ahem. sorry ebonyfire, i LOVE that word.

Hijack over.

 

[Ebonyfire]

tee hee..hogwash...heeeeeeee

ahem. sorry ebonyfire, i LOVE that word.

Hijack over.

So do I.

I just have to jump on a thread that assumes that love is a prerequisite for good domming. It is not.

Eb

 

[~Dream~]

re:love and trust

Are you saying that because a Dom/me is does not love or is in love with a submissive, that they cannot be trusted?

That is absolute hogwash. Men and women are murdered everyday by those who claim to "love" or
be in love with" them.

Love does not equal trust.

Eb

_______________________________
just yet another place we have VERY different but still valid opinions on Ebony. there are DIFFERENT KINDS of love you know.. I only said for me , INHO it works much better and you nor anyone else can deny me of my own rights to what I see is "right"


as for the lil tee hee "hogwash comment ? very cute but isnt it quite hysterical that if and when I CHOOSE to make lil quirks like that , I'm told that I'M "BEHAVING AS A CHILD .. OH WELL GUESS SOME THINGS CAN ONLY BE CONTROLLED BY my Master and not other People

 

[spankableBelle]

Re: re:love and trust

_______________________________
just yet another place we have VERY different but still valid opinions on Ebony. there are DIFFERENT KINDS of love you know.. I only said for me , INHO it works much better and you nor anyone else can deny me of my own rights to what I see is "right"


as for the lil tee hee "hogwash comment ? very cute but isnt it quite hysterical that if and when I CHOOSE to make lil quirks like that , I'm told that I'M "BEHAVING AS A CHILD .. OH WELL GUESS SOME THINGS CAN ONLY BE CONTROLLED BY my Master and not other People

First of all, i didn't see where Eb said that in a quirky way, nothing at all that she said was funny teehee...only serious...

Second of all, i didn't see that she was trying to control anything...only stating her opinion...and not denying you your right to say how you feel and what is right for you...

Third of all, dream i have read all these posts in most of your threads and for the majority of them, i don't see that people are attacking you...simply giving their thoughts...i see you getting defensive and taking many things the wrong way, in ways that they are not meant...that saddens me because i think we're all missing some valuable lessons and guidance here...

but...whatever

belle

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Mental vs Emotional

Another point I though of was with regards to your saying sometimes you struggle with "wanting to take back your submission". Many of us do that because (at least in the US) we are taught to think independantly and not "rely" on men.

So when we find we are submissive it is quite a shock that sometimes what society says we should be is not necessarily what is good for us.

So we have that conflict going on and until we overcome that through lots of hard work and discipline it pops up from time to time.

Just my 2 cents worth.

quiet



"To thine own self be true... the rest will follow"

__________________________________

yes I quite agree with your post quiet willow,IT does take a lot of hard work and discipline and I thank-you for your post , I gues some people seem to make it look so "easy" sometimes but to each His or her own .. I will find my WAy with Master's guiding hand..

 

[MzChrista]

tee hee..hogwash...heeeeeeee

ahem. sorry ebonyfire, i LOVE that word.

Hijack over.

Im kind of digging balderdash. Now thats a word so dumb its hip.

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Belle

First of all, i didn't see where Eb said that in a quirky way, nothing at all that she said was funny teehee...only serious...

Second of all, i didn't see that she was trying to control anything...only stating her opinion...and not denying you your right to say how you feel and what is right for you...

Third of all, dream i have read all these posts in most of your threads and for the majority of them, i don't see that people are attacking you...simply giving their thoughts...i see you getting defensive and taking many things the wrong way, in ways that they are not meant...that saddens me because i think we're all missing some valuable lessons and guidance here...

but...whatever

belle

_______________________________
I would be willing to admit that indeed you did NOT see the criticism there at all but then again YOU ARE not at the butt-end of it , put yourself in my shoes for jst 1 minute please Belle..
1. I come here to learn, I instead get "flamed' for what I Do NOT know , told I am "behaving as a child" when my very REAL feelings are HURT (see Cym's post at Daring to learn thread)
2. dont talk like this, dont talk like that."chat room style talk will NOT be tolerated!!. etc etc,, however I noticed that a select few can "giggle" , yee haw, or i dont give a rats ass this or that .. dont really matter to me , I WILL choose How I speak ,I am however an adult..
3. My personal treatment of my Master has been questioned by Many here( I'm doing the BEST I can) and HIS " lack of discipline there of of me!!" ,well,who Died and`made everyone here OUR keepers? Noone point made!! We shall live out our BDSM relationship just as You & Soron do, Our own way , is there alot of valuable info in this forum ?? hmm well my Master says yes so I take Him at HIS word and I shall strive to find it(wherever the heck it is).. Maybe if people just tried a little harder to "get along' there wouldnt be all these damn "flame wars' lol Hell i'm ready to strt packing a friggin super-soaker to put out all the "fires" being lit under my ass(insert smiley here) and last but certainly NOT least..
4.please quit "GUSHIN ' all over Artful- thats what I hear! well ya know thats kinda Hard for me to do as I am uh kinda sorta- " In love' with the Man so I feel its to be expected, Do we always get along? nope nobody does, but we have ALOT going for us and some people just cant "stomach ' that.. oh well there's an ignore button on your pm messages or better yet, Noone said you gotta read my post!! for you Belle , since I DO consider you a friend , I will endeavor to not be soo defensive, I promise , however, maybe others could "chill out also? ' what do you think?

 

[MzChrista]

Hey Dream.

You and me never has a problem so maybe if I say this you will see what Im getting at and not feel like Im attacking you, OK?
But if you say stuff like " is there alot of valuable info in this forum ?? hmm well my Master says yes so I take Him at HIS word and I shall strive to find it(wherever the heck it is)." You gonna make all kinds of people who got nothing to do with you or havent said beans to you on your threads feel like you are cutting them down, even if you dont mean it that way.
Its little stuff like that makes people start at ya. Im just saying this trying to help you.

 

[cellis]

Hey Dream.

You and me never has a problem so maybe if I say this you will see what Im getting at and not feel like Im attacking you, OK?
But if you say stuff like " is there alot of valuable info in this forum ?? hmm well my Master says yes so I take Him at HIS word and I shall strive to find it(wherever the heck it is)." You gonna make all kinds of people who got nothing to do with you or havent said beans to you on your threads feel like you are cutting them down, even if you dont mean it that way.
Its little stuff like that makes people start at ya. Im just saying this trying to help you.

Well said MzC!

Dream, I have nothing against you either, but I do find you extremely defensive when people offer their opinions and it differs from yours. I am sorry that you are not very open to hearing what others have to say and that is why I avoid most of your posts.

I am truly happy for you and Artful. I think he is a wonderful person and I have enjoyed getting to know him over the last few months.

Sometimes, Dream, when you ask for others opinions, perhaps you should take the time to read them and let what they have sink in rather than attempting to defend a position that no one is saying is wrong in the first place.

Truly I would like for you to be happy here. I know that this is difficult at times for you to understand, but I really don't think people dislike you, it is just that you have a way of alienating people.

I hope that you will take my comments in the spirit that they are meant, as I have said them with care.

 

[~Dream~]

MzC...

Hey Dream.

You and me never has a problem so maybe if I say this you will see what Im getting at and not feel like Im attacking you, OK?
But if you say stuff like " is there alot of valuable info in this forum ?? hmm well my Master says yes so I take Him at HIS word and I shall strive to find it(wherever the heck it is)." You gonna make all kinds of people who got nothing to do with you or havent said beans to you on your threads feel like you are cutting them down, even if you dont mean it that way.
Its little stuff like that makes people start at ya. Im just saying this trying to help you.

___________________________________
you know what MzC , you just climbed alot higher on my respect list (and you were already in the top 10!) , You are Absolutely right!! I apologize to one and all for my words (not thought out).
Everyone and I Do mean EVERYONE has a right to post their opinions or views on this Forum. THats's the TRUTH . the Truth cannot be denied..each and every person on here has something beneficial to offer , maybe not always to me , in general , but perhaps to someone else?

I will strive to Learn not only about D/S BDSM but how to properly communicate with people better and thank-you MzC wwith much respect always, for showing me the error of my ways!!(waves a white flag)
much love to you MzC...