Emotional Infidelity

[impressive]

.....

 

[BlackShanglan]

I think this sort of question - without meaning it's a bad question - is the sort that can gnaw at the roots of all peace and trust. After all, isn't the ultimate question "How would you know?"

Tough questions. Particularly for someone like me, with a pronounced love of stories, imagination, and role-playing. Am I emotionally loyal to my partner if we both engage in a bit of play-acting?

Shanglan

 

[impressive]

.....

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Are you talking about having sex with one person while pretending that they're someone else? I've heard people talking about this, but I always pretty much assumed they were joking.

Because I've never been able to do that and never had any desire to do it, and I don't understand how it's done. I mean, all your physical cues tell you who you're with, and if you're good enough to imagine one thing while doing another, why not dispense with the moral ambiguity and just take your mental image and beat off to it?

Anyhow, if my partner were doing it, I'd just rather not know. I'm a great believer in Be Here Now.


---dr.M.

 

[impressive]

.....

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Boy you picked a tough one...this is one I've been pondering, dealing with and having trouble resolveing for many reasons.

bitch.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Wait a minute! Wait a minute! I really want to know: do people actually do this? Do you really mean to tell me that you'll be in bed with someone and pretend they're someone else? And it works?

I'm astonished. I thought this was just sexual folklore. Like the myth of the female orgasm or the five-inch penis.

No, seriously, I thought this was up there with the idea of "putting a flag over her head and fucking for Old Glory", a kind of joke people made. In fact, I remember a cartoon of two people making love and the woman's staring at a picture of a toothy movie-star guy she's holding and he's staring at a picture of a bimbette.

---Zoot

 

[matriarch]

It most definitely works.

Its the only way I could get through the last 10 active years of my marriage.

Sad, but true.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Agreed Mat, it's not a myth.

I wonder if it's more prevalent in women then in men?

 

[impressive]

.....

 

[English Lady]

I can't do it. When i'm with myhusband I am just with him every time. We play act and tell each other wickedly sexy and perverted stories as we're fucking sometimes but we're always focused on each other.

II don'tthink I could have sex if I didn't want it with that particular person.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Agreed Mat, it's not a myth.

I wonder if it's more prevalent in women then in men?

Maybe that's it. As a man you're usually more active. You've got to be aware of what she likes and doesn't like, and men are supposed to be more visual, so maybe his eyes are open.

In the classic Lousy Lay, she just lies there, eyes closed. Maybe she's thinking of doing it with Alan Rickman or Barney the Donosaur or the Man From Glad for all I know.

God knows what she's thinking about.

---dr.M.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I wonder how many do it WITHOUT feeling conflicted about it at all?

More than you and I think......maybe you should do a poll. I'm glad Dr M put a man's POV in here. I would like to hear more from the guys on this...no offense black, I forgot you were there too.

 

[carsonshepherd]

I wonder how many do it WITHOUT feeling conflicted about it at all?

I do it and it doesn't bother me a bit!

But I'm not hung up on fidelity. Too bad my partner is. Really puts a cramp in my sex life.

 

[impressive]

.....

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Everyone's sexual appetiete, awareness, need, fantasy life, etc. is different. I know in some encounters, I've been someone else to my partner. I had sex with one freind after a terribly damagening and disturbing brek up for her, one where it took her weeks to see what all her freinds had been telling her, that she was being used, badly. She tore my ass up, literally and figureatively and since I know she loved me to death, I am sure she was seeing her ex the whole time. I flatter myself to believe it brought her some closure, since the tramp was long beyond her reach.

I know on occasion the woman I am with has been someone else to me, at least in the deeper recesses of my head. Nothing is impled about that lover, simply an ackowledgement that on that particular night, my mind was on someone else.

Mental infidelity is something I don't quite understand, much as I am unable to wrap my head around the religious tennet that thinking about comiting a sin is the same as if you did it. If I am with someone and during the act I slip off on a flight of fancy, so what? If she's with me and her dark desire to bonk rossane Barr flairs up, so what? the intimacy is still between she and I, the emotion and affection, she's the one I cuddle up with afterwards and talk to.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy fantasy life. Even main stream psycologists and Shrinks admit that. Why is it unhealthy if your fantasy life still goes on during the act? Who is being hurt? No one, unless you feel the need to tell your partner your mind was on Twiggy or BS the wonder horse.

There are a lot of complex, emotionally charged issues when you find yourself torn between two people or even worse, falling in love with someone while you are still with someone you have fallen out of love with.

Be that as it may, injecting some fantasy into your lovemaking dosen't strikeme as any more infidelity than dreaming of someone else when you have the vibe out. Foresaking all others is the marriage vow. there are a lot of girls I have fosaken or who have fosaken me I still drem about being in the sack with occasionally.

Ideally, when you are having sex with someone, you are concentrating n them and it isn't an issue. But in practice, there are a lot of girls I lust after and if one pops into my head while I'm having sex with another, I tend to just let the fantasy have it's reign. If my parners intent is to make me feel good and a bit of fantasy helps me towards bliss, I don't see that either of us were cheated of the full measure of pleasure.

At heart, infidelity and thinking of ending a relationship are superiorly tough issues. Don't crucify yourself for a bit of fantasy in the bedroom. It isn't worth it and isn't healthy and will only serve to cloud the real and pressing issues in your mind.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Thanks Colly for a lovely and well-thought-out answer, as always.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I would think you'd have to be damn sure about a lot of things before destroying a long term relationship. You'd have to be sure you were utterly in love with the new person and not just physically attracted, in lust, or having a crush. It'd have to be strong enough that you'd be okay telling your old partner, sorry but it was all a lie and you'd have to be able to convince the new one that you wouldn't pull on themwhat you just pulled on your old lover.

You'd also have to be damn sure that the new person is accessible and in love with you. If you're fantasy person is Michelle Pfieffer, well then, it's best to just take out the vibe or give yourself a pull. Again it's about replacing the old with the new, replacing the love with a new mutual love. If either is seeing it as an experiment or a cheap fling, you're forever destroying a bond for a bout of good sex.

You'd also have to be damn sure you hate the old one. There has to be no hope that you love him/her, will ever love him/her again, and that s/he deseves the ripping pain you're about to give him/her. Cause no matter how you phrase it, if it's been a long-term relationship, you're saying it's been a lie, we fancied each other for a time and rutted, now I fancy someone else and will rut with them. Fuck off wanker. Our time together is a memory that I won't access because you're not worthy of regret or fantasization. Piss off.

You might think that's harsh, but that'll be the message received on the other end if it's been a long-term relationship.

I don't know. Maybe it's because I haven't had as much or as long experience as everyone else, but I can't understand a lax attitude about breaking another's heart. Saying I'll just sleep around and not tell partner, because I've been fantasizing a lot...I don't know. It sounds like the worst of the dreg stories on the site. The DDD blonde bombshell 40 yr old and the two 18 yr old black men or something.



Cause here's the thing. Love means sacrifice. The other person's happiness does come first in your mind, because YOU FUCKIN' LOVE THEM. Them happy makes you happy. You get wet/hard thinking about someone younger, more attractive? Okay, and? If you still love the person you're with and don't want to hurt them, you'll deal. Cheating is not a game to be taken lightly. It WILL destroy the old bond, always. Always. So, if you are not absolutely ready to cut that bond. Break a heart. Then it's best to just deal with the fantasy, as it were, in hand.



But that's just one ape's opinion. Back to silly rampage of DOOM!

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Luc has brought many things to mind that I've been dealing with so I'll play Devil's advocate, so to speak.

When the case is one of you realizing the one you're with is no longer the one you are in love with and you decide to keep going on with that relationship because you are afraid of hurting them, you damage yourself as well.
Is it fair to have to live the lie?
Is it fair to have to see that you are hurting that person but know that staying with them isn't going to fix things if the feelings arent there?
No one wants to intentionally inflict pain on a loved one, but no one should have to sacrifice themselves or their happiness.

People will ask, well why did you do it? why let it go that far?
How do you explain that you've denied a big part of yourself to please others and somewhere down the road you realized you've made a mistake?
How do you explain that what goes on inside of you has brought you to the edge of madness and that madness would be easier to deal with than the reality of what you may do to others by trying to be yourself?
Is it better to stay on your island of denial as a sea of pain surround you and a storm of self doubt pummels you?

Not everyone is in it for the sex, the sex is just a component of the whole machine. Sex and love are not the same but interchangable, you can have one without the other or both together.

It's what is the bigger part of who you are that needs to be taken care of and when you are not whole how can you ever be honest with anyone, yourself included.

Is it morally wrong? is it a part of what makes us human?is it wrong to stand up and say...I've made a grave error, mistakes were made and someone will inevitablly be hurt.
Do we decide whom to burn at the stake or do we look within ourselves with brutal honesty and question our true intentions?

I have no clue if any of this makes sense.

 

[Kassiana]

Do you really mean to tell me that you'll be in bed with someone and pretend they're someone else? And it works?
--Yup.

I wonder how many do it WITHOUT feeling conflicted about it at all?
--Dunno, but I've never felt bad about it. My husband and I don't mind. As long as the other's getting satisfaction, that's the main thing. If he's doing it by pretending I'm a comic book character, so what? We're both lifelong role-players and role-play sex a lot.

If she's with me and her dark desire to bonk rossane Barr flairs up, so what? the intimacy is still between she and I, the emotion and affection, she's the one I cuddle up with afterwards and talk to.
--What Colly said.

Fantasizing during sex to me is just dreaming, not desiring one's fantasy to be reality. I don't really want to be with a comic book character, for example. I don't think one's being "unfaithful" because the idea of being screwed in a ballroom while others dance around you, oblivious, comes to mind.

And no, the above is NOT based on my personal experience. Really. Trust me. Would I lie to you?

 

[LadyJeanne]

I've never fantasized about someone else while having sex. It's impossible for me to focus on anything else but what's actually happening.

If I were to somehow discover that my lover was thinking of someone else while having sex with me, my reaction would depend on the circumstances. If he's fantasizing about a woman he knows, I'd be hurt and upset. I'm the one who's looking into his eyes while giving him a BJ, dammit! That would feel like infidelity.

If he were fantasizing about a Michelle Pfeiffer, I wouldn't be hurt because it's just a fantasy, so what? But I'd become anxious...am I not sexy enough? Does he wish I looked like her?

If he'd like a role play, sure, I'll be Catwoman for him!

 

[carsonshepherd]

Luc has brought many things to mind that I've been dealing with so I'll play Devil's advocate, so to speak.

When the case is one of you realizing the one you're with is no longer the one you are in love with and you decide to keep going on with that relationship because you are afraid of hurting them, you damage yourself as well.
Is it fair to have to live the lie?
Is it fair to have to see that you are hurting that person but know that staying with them isn't going to fix things if the feelings arent there?
No one wants to intentionally inflict pain on a loved one, but no one should have to sacrifice themselves or their happiness.

People will ask, well why did you do it? why let it go that far?
How do you explain that you've denied a big part of yourself to please others and somewhere down the road you realized you've made a mistake?
How do you explain that what goes on inside of you has brought you to the edge of madness and that madness would be easier to deal with than the reality of what you may do to others by trying to be yourself?
Is it better to stay on your island of denial as a sea of pain surround you and a storm of self doubt pummels you?

Not everyone is in it for the sex, the sex is just a component of the whole machine. Sex and love are not the same but interchangable, you can have one without the other or both together.

It's what is the bigger part of who you are that needs to be taken care of and when you are not whole how can you ever be honest with anyone, yourself included.

Is it morally wrong? is it a part of what makes us human?is it wrong to stand up and say...I've made a grave error, mistakes were made and someone will inevitablly be hurt.
Do we decide whom to burn at the stake or do we look within ourselves with brutal honesty and question our true intentions?

I have no clue if any of this makes sense.

Living a lie isn't fair to anyone, dear sweet J. BUT. Sometimes that lie is a necessity. We sometimes see things only one way: the way they should be. But reality is not always so cut and dried. We do things because we must. Not because we want to, because it's fair, or because it's the right thing to do. We have to play out the hand we're given.

And sometimes we hurt people. I had to do it. I didn't want to, but I realized that if I wanted to be alive inside, I had to! Maybe it was morally wrong, but I did it anyway.

An island of denial. Most of us are on that island with you, to one degree or another! It's hard to be brutally honest with yourself, esp. when you've been in denial for a long, long time. I know it well! But there does come a time for truth. Maybe it needs to be later down the road, when you're better able to deal with it.

But before the damage gets too bad that you lose your soul.

Know that some of us have been down that road too

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Luc has brought many things to mind that I've been dealing with so I'll play Devil's advocate, so to speak.

When the case is one of you realizing the one you're with is no longer the one you are in love with and you decide to keep going on with that relationship because you are afraid of hurting them, you damage yourself as well.
Is it fair to have to live the lie?
Is it fair to have to see that you are hurting that person but know that staying with them isn't going to fix things if the feelings arent there?
No one wants to intentionally inflict pain on a loved one, but no one should have to sacrifice themselves or their happiness.

People will ask, well why did you do it? why let it go that far?
How do you explain that you've denied a big part of yourself to please others and somewhere down the road you realized you've made a mistake?
How do you explain that what goes on inside of you has brought you to the edge of madness and that madness would be easier to deal with than the reality of what you may do to others by trying to be yourself?
Is it better to stay on your island of denial as a sea of pain surround you and a storm of self doubt pummels you?

Not everyone is in it for the sex, the sex is just a component of the whole machine. Sex and love are not the same but interchangable, you can have one without the other or both together.

It's what is the bigger part of who you are that needs to be taken care of and when you are not whole how can you ever be honest with anyone, yourself included.

Is it morally wrong? is it a part of what makes us human?is it wrong to stand up and say...I've made a grave error, mistakes were made and someone will inevitablly be hurt.
Do we decide whom to burn at the stake or do we look within ourselves with brutal honesty and question our true intentions?

I have no clue if any of this makes sense.

Oh it makes sense in many ways.

But it's always a constant battle between personal or others happiness.

To me though when it's a case of love, the decision is easy. If you love that person, you don't want to hurt them. Saying "Cya foo, cause I want someone else" is unthinkable (to me) to say to someone you love.

If however, you have not a single spark of love left for them and a lot of love for a new person, perhaps the split is an easier decision to make.

My point was that its not a decision to be made lightly or on whims. There has to be iron solid certainty.

Why? One might ask.

Well, partly because even the small seemingly unimportant decisions between self and other gain importance later. I tend to favor other, but it was a favoring that had to be taught repeatedly by a master and by life. There was a time when I was in band and I had already given up my seat higher up to him and he wanted to take the seat in the orchestra that had been offered to me in a one shot only opportunity. I stood up for myself, my happiness. I had agonized over the decision. I believed I was right. He left school a week later. He was moving to Georgia because his parents were having problems. All he wanted to do in the end was play once in the orchestra before he left. I was scum. There are other cases. Sticking up for yourself over another's unhappiness is dicey business. You have to be damn sure it's worth it. Cause there's not many feelings in this world akin to realizing you've just been a total and utter villain.

Anyhoo, good job advocate, here's a cookie. Or something silly. Sigh, I might be reaching an end of the silly wave.

 

[domjoe]

Are you talking about having sex with one person while pretending that they're someone else? I've heard people talking about this, but I always pretty much assumed they were joking.

After twenty five years of sex with the same person (call it 1,500-2,000 times) I 've ended up resorting to every trick in the book. And so has my partner.

 

[impressive]

It's what is the bigger part of who you are that needs to be taken care of and when you are not whole how can you ever be honest with anyone, yourself included.

BINGO!