Editors who have no clue

[Jay626]

I have had a few editors that are absolutely great, and made work of my jumbled mess. These editors are not the one in question.

I am talking about editors who will rip your story apart, and make you feel that every word choice was wrong. These are the same editors that will try their hand at writing, and write the most horrible piece of trash with the lowest ratings.

 

[SamScribble]

I have had a few editors that are absolutely great, and made work of my jumbled mess. These editors are not the one in question.

I am talking about editors who will rip your story apart, and make you feel that every word choice was wrong. These are the same editors that will try their hand at writing, and write the most horrible piece of trash with the lowest ratings.

It's a fact of life: sometimes you have to kiss quite a few frogs in order to find a prince or a princess.

 

[CyranoJ]

You know, there's honest talk about pet peeves and troubles and then there's the kind of ugly whining and backbiting that would make people never, ever want to volunteer their time to edit on a site like this. This post comes across as the latter, not the former.

You disagree with some style or procedure of editing, you feel it could be done more constructively, talk about that. There's no call for running people down or shit-talking them. Grow up.

As for me, lord knows I've had editors I've disagreed with on this or that project or word choice, feedback I have found unhelpful, maybe the occasional frustration with attention to detail by volunteer editors on story sites... but I've never been tempted to imply that they were trying to tear my work down because of jealousy, as that would be bizarrely paranoid. FWICS a far worse problem is authors who have no clue: in particular authors who claim to want editing help or other feedback but are too ridiculously thin-skinned to see red ink as anything other than a personal attack.

 

[sr71plt]

There are different levels of editing, and the desired level of editing should be agreed to from the top. Also, a trained editor doesn't change anything--just clearly marks suggested changes--and at Literotica, it's the author who has it last and has to be the one submitting it, so the author controls what suggestions are accepted.

There are very few trained editors roaming around here, but even another set of eyes looking at a text is quite useful. Just don't expect overly much from someone who isn't vetted as an editor and who you aren't paying to go over your work--and remember, again, that, in the Literotica system, the author has the story last and submits it, so it's up to the author to make the final decisions. If you don't like someone else's word substitutes, just don't take the change--and shoulder the responsibility for the choice you made yourself.

That said, I see CyranoJ's point. There is no lockstep relationship between ability to edit and ability to write, so that's just sort of a nasty venting comment which is not likely to attract the help you seek.

Of course, checking out a prospective editor's own stories posted here is about as good an index you can get to how well they can work with the language, and if you can see a lot of mistakes in what they write, they probably aren't a good bet to help you with your story. That said, unless you are a trained editor yourself, there's a limit to what you can assess is good writing presentation and what isn't, so the chip you are willing to carry on your shoulder about the quality of someone else's editing should take into account how much editorial training you have yourself.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Gee, I had a nonny anon tell me just the other day that I NEED an editor. Maybe I should pay attention.

Still, they were doing a public service, because after informing me "I didn't finish" they still clicked through to the end of the story to leave their comment. So that was really helpful advice for me and my readers, and I expect they enjoyed their little one-bomb too.

 

[sr71plt]

I've had readers tell me I need an editor (I have one and I am one--that said, there's no such thing as perfect copy) and from their explanation why (when they bother to give one), I usually can tell that they weren't paying attention in high school English and don't understand that commercial fiction is a different animal anyway.

 

[JasonClearwater]

Even if you pay an editor, you won't always agree with them, and you won't always be wrong. No one's immune from giving bad advice.

I'd think on Lit, authors will give the best assistance they can, but I personally find it difficult to figure out where to stop. I have a specific style that's ingrained in me, I understand English as per my home country, and I don't have a degree to fall back on. That makes me limited and biased in the advice I give.

If you'd given your work to me, OP, (without seeing it) I know I'd likely have pulled it apart, but it'd all be suggestions that you could take or ignore, and there'd be no judgement there. I'd never want to make anyone feel bad about their work, I just try to pass on what I've learned.

I'd say being a pro editor requires more than a strong understand of style and grammar; it's about helping the author keep their voice intact while giving them tools to polish their copy. And as I say, I've no idea how to do that. Whoever helped you was likely just trying to help you out, and like me, wasn't sure how far to go.

That said, I get frustrated when I offer to edit for someone and they don't make an effort on their work before they hand it over. To my mind, that's lazy and a breach of the (free) editor/author contract.

If someone offers to help you for free, you owe it to them to give them the tightest possible copy you can, which means re-reading multiple times, learning how to grammar, running a spell check, and applying formatting rules as per research you should be doing yourself into what's expected. An editor shouldn't feel they have to rewrite your work to make it legible.

As you can tell... I would make a terrible editor. But if someone asks for my help, I do my best, and they can take it from there.

 

[RejectReality]

It's a matter of having an understanding ahead of time. My editor knows that I'm going to reject 99% of the suggestions made regarding character dialogue. I don't question what my characters are saying.

However, he still marks those suggestions every time. There's that 1% where I realize that the second set of eyes has demonstrated what they're saying doesn't convey what I want it to convey, and it gets changed.

Most of the time he's simply learning new midwestern versions of slang. They're understandable, but don't use the exact same word. Draws and drawers. Folk and folks. Things like that.

He knows I'm going to reject most of them, and he's fine with that. I know he's going to mark them anyway, and I'm fine with that.

The exact opposite is true when it comes to 3rd person narrative. I accept 99% of the suggestions because it strips out some of my midwestern redneckism and only reject about 1%.

Just because you don't agree on everything doesn't mean you can't have a perfectly happy working relationship. It's a matter of understanding where you disagree and both of you being fine with it.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

'Pro" status is no guarantee of anything, MDs kill patients, buildings and bridges collapse. Army commanders lose battles all the time.

Real editing is simply arranging all the essential story elements in the right order with a coherent/cohesive logical train of thought.

 

[TxRad]

Real editing is simply arranging all the essential story elements in the right order with a coherent/cohesive logical train of thought.

This statement shows that you know absolutely nothing about what goes into an edit.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

This statement shows that you know absolutely nothing about what goes into an edit.

Kinda like you and sexual intercourse. "Jenny I don't think we're in Zombie Wells anymore."

 

[Jay626]

You are so missing the point. There are editors who will ask "Hey, I dont understand this sentence" or "This sounds better." There are editors who are absolutely great and get shit on by some writers. I am not one to complain about those editors nor is my post about them.

I am talking about editors who take offense to not making changes, not changing the story. Yes, I had an editor who got pissed at me for not changing some of the story. This same editor writes a story, and is total shit. There are editors like this.

 

[sr71plt]

Umm, OK. Yes, there are all sorts of people out there. Including writers who can't just let it go and move on. I'm not sure what your point is in bringing your specific issue with a specific editor to the discussion board. This is between you and the editor. There was no reason on a Literotica edit to be arguing with the editor at all, unless you are just an argumentative person. The editor did what he/she did to it and sent it back to you. From there, in the Literotica system, it's all up to you what happens to it. You can use whatever you want from the editor's suggestions and discard what you don't want. You are the one submitting the piece. There's no reason to argue at that point. Or to bring just your side of it to the discussion board.

 

[TxRad]

Kinda like you and sexual intercourse. "Jenny I don't think we're in Zombie Wells anymore."

And this statement makes you look like an even bigger idiot.

 

[Voboy]

You do realize nobody's got a gun to your head forcing you to use this editor? Or, indeed, any editor?

 

[NOIRTRASH]

And this statement makes you look like an even bigger idiot.

But not to anyone who matters. The pot calling the kettle black.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I am talking about editors who take offense to not making changes, not changing the story. Yes, I had an editor who got pissed at me for not changing some of the story. This same editor writes a story, and is total shit. There are editors like this.

Seriously, mate, what the others say - just get yourself another editor.

Besides, if you need an editor so bad, how do you know their stuff is total shit? Maybe they just don't write like you write?

Teach yourself to edit yourself, then you've only got yourself to blame.

 

[hylas_]

I've worked with frustrating editors as well, I guess?

My advice: don't work with frustrating editors again.

 

[Sammael Bard]

On Literotica, you get what you paid for. It's great but you have to be a judge for yourself and set the terms and conditions for what you want to see. A low self-esteem would be the least of your problems if you don't have a mutual agreement beforehand.

Critics are always dicks, but there are helpful dicks and there are whiny dicks. You get to choose between them AND discard them if you don't like them.

Oh, the choices.

And this statement makes you look like an even bigger idiot.

JBJ is his name,
Setting new records
His only game

 

[tomlitilia]

On Literotica, you get what you paid for.

This, exactly. Beggars can't be choosers, except on Lit we can chose to disregard whatever change the editor suggests. I'm grateful anytime someone offers to read my text beforehand, and don't think I can judge them for how they edit when they do it free of charge. Sure, it can be frustrating when an editor adds things that contradicts what I think the characters would do or say. But then I just disregard these changes. Simple as that. And even if I don't keep what they might have added, it is sometimes an indicator that something was missing, so then I alter the text in some other way.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

LIT is the old GONG SHOW where every imbecile demands applause and a trophy for lame crap. Some no-taqlents on this board wanna make you think writing is a Rubik's Cube youll never master. But good writing is simple.

 

[sr71plt]

T Sure, it can be frustrating when an editor adds things that contradicts what I think the characters would do or say.

This is key, I think. Trained editors are not supposed to do this. They may misunderstand where you were going with a concept or phases and may assume where they think it means to go, but this all should be couched in the comment they make--usually phrased as a question--at this point. So, if you're getting a lot of this back from someone trying to function as your editor, you need to consider whether that person is giving you enough value in a review in other regards. You don't lose control over what gets submitted to Literotica unless you give it up.

 

[ChloeTzang]

LIT is the old GONG SHOW where every imbecile demands applause and a trophy for lame crap. Some no-taqlents on this board wanna make you think writing is a Rubik's Cube youll never master. But good writing is simple.

It's simple only when you understand the rules and know what you're doing. And that takes a while. I thought I was okay when I started here two years okay but real life and real readers are a harsh lesson in reality. I've still got a lot to learn and the more I learn, the more I understand that learning curve and how beneficial it is. To me, at least.

 

[LIVINRFANTASIES]

Clueless Denny

My wife and I both have attempted to write Lit stories. We are neither writers, editors, or scholars. I scribble words with my tower system and keyboard. I help my wife peck away with one or two fingers.

At the beginning I was told I need an editor. I narrowed down a few. A few responded. I choose a person who I now can't remember. He/she was very honest and helpful. After the first few stories which may not be in the same order now, I used what I learned, what a few good and bad anons told me, and words from other readers.

Mostly I've used my scribbled hand written notes, old stories from long gone bike sites, and more or less updated, typed, and reread my own rubbish until I posted them on Lit.
Except from a rough beginning with under age stories, which began that way because of our ages, nothing has been rejected. In fact most stories were posted very fast.

I've written nothing in months simply because Windows 10 and my new, six month old now, computer does not have WORDS and I refuse to spend a fortune for it. My son keeps telling me he can add WORDS to the new tower. But kids get busy and kids forget more than old men do.

I's say a good free editor is a great person to have. But being a stuborn old man I prefer to pretend I'm a real book writer and I fake it until the words flow slightly better in my grade school style.

As I've said a million times, we are here to share true stories of long ago. Not to get an "A" in English class and dazzle strangers with my book lurnin'.

 

[CyranoJ]

It's simple only when you understand the rules and know what you're doing. And that takes a while. I thought I was okay when I started here two years okay but real life and real readers are a harsh lesson in reality. I've still got a lot to learn and the more I learn, the more I understand that learning curve and how beneficial it is. To me, at least.

Counterpoint: if you're still responding to JBJ posts like there's a rational human on the other end who will respond in kind, you have a ways to go yet on the learning curve.