twelveoone
ground zero
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2004
- Posts
- 5,882
Editors Choice - Tools for Learning?
For new writers.
The Es are nothing more than what an unidentified editor thinks has value. Are they the best poems here, probably not, but these are opinions. They are better than average, varied, and some of them you won't see the likes of elsewhere.The use of the Es struck me as being a valuable source of possible learning, It also will give you an idea of what you are up against both as competition and perfecting your craft.
I have no intention of teaching anything, just giving you some pointers to where you can learn. Consider with skepticism, there is no right or wrong in any of this, for how many poets, readers, critics there are how many versions of what poetry is or should be. The only true path is the one you take, there are just perhaps some better ways of getting you along the way.
Who am I? I am a writer, I am a reader, I am a com mentor, I am a critic, in that order. I will not preach, nor even teach much, for I recognise that there is always someone better at something I'm trying to do. I have an ego, it is hoped that this will become your credo.
Why these two? Both have Es, have hit the top list, are consistent, and write in an accessible style. They may not my favorites, but I can see what they are doing. That is a sort of triangulation of what has value. Consider with skepticism.
For new writers Exercises 1,2 all others go to 3
Exercise 1
Click on each of the poets names, at random, click on five of their poems ( what titles attract you) glance, do not read.
My guess is that eight out of ten looked pretty much the same.You may want to skip 2 and go on to 3 if you want to take my word for it, but then you wouldn't be skeptical, now would you?
Exercise 2
Go back to four of them, count the lines, average them. Read the first two lines, no more.
My guess; should be between 12-24 lines, and if you wanted to read more, what they did is piqued your interest, most often good writers will start with strong lines, because the trick is to get people to read what you write.
What you I hope you discovered is a format that is easily readable, and a natural line length, these are tricks is to get people to read what you write, remember. This is what will be known as one of your safe area of operations. It is long enough for you to do things in, but short enough so they don't get bored. Most poety that lasts looks somewhat like this, for those very same reasons.. Easy, huh? Took what, five minutes?
Natural line length, you may want to investigate this on your own, think of a line, say it. The thought closely parallels the breath, strange how that works.
Exercise 3
Now it gets harder.
Take note as to how the line ends. Full stop with a period or does it run on (enjambment) to the next line.We'll get into this in more depth later. The end of the line is very important, just kind of hangs there for people to notice. Good writers most often will take extra care at the beginning and the end of the poem because people notice and the trick is to get people to read what you write.
Exercise 4
Read them both. On Angeline's there is a dissenting comment. I just put it there. (don't worry she got a 100). Agree, disagree? Carefully look at he first two lines now, look at the end words, and in the comments there is an explanation of the last two lines, that I believe justify them. Agree, disagree? Any comments on Ange's leave them there.
I have broken out jd4george's poem as an illustration of what I first see, when I look at a poem. Doing this I noticed something else that is pretty clever.
Angeline
Emjambin' the Blues
jd4george
Sangria Bloodshed
If you bothered to do any of this, you have done what I consider to be the only two absolutes in poetry. Think and Read.
Comparison of the two poems
Neither poems have what some would consider "poetic" words, "lofty" thoughts, or even many three syllable words. If you are new to poetry you might question it? None are necessary, and more often than not, an impediment to real poetry. Poetry, like it or not, is the realtionship of words to words, in new arrangements. Take a look at this:
"Abjure the day, abjure the press and pleat of Sun," the repeats of abjure leading into the alliteration of press and pleat. "Be my midnight, be my moonlight" Ok, nice repeat, but not exactly something you never saw before, could almost be considered a cliche, except if everything was as strange as most of the rest of it, it would be a little difficult to relate too. This has a function as a return to, to use a music analogy, the tonic.(in other words the familiar) Good writers think of these things, if not consciously at least they have trained their subconscious to do it.
Take a look at the line breaks, in both poems the lines end on strong, important words. Both poems rely on a sort of misdirection, jd4george is not talking about wine, and Angeline is useing words that you'll never hear come out of blues singers mouths. So the title..?
Comparison of the two poets:
At this point, I should bring up the difference between preference and prejudice. I prefer jd, it is easier for me to find the voice (well, we are both men) he is a little more experimental (which I like to see), but it would be prejudicial to think he was a better poet. Both, (if you looked at their other work) use a very simple technique of repeating words, phrases, etc. This is often a key to the understanding, just blatanly a good trick, a return.. Angeline may even be better at the use of this. Both, at least on the surface are easy reads, (so are Yeats and Frost) and that is a good thing to do. Why? Because the trick is to get people to read your stuff
So go read some of theirs, you might learn a thing or two. You also might think about a comment and a vote or two.
A personal aside: About 6 years ago, I asked 10 of the better poets to talk about their work. A lot of work on my part. My reward, I learned a trick or two. I can't emphasise enough, it is work; so much work to make everything seem so natural, so easy.
PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT IN THIS THREAD. We should keep this as clean as possible. Comment in the Perks E thread.
For new writers.
The Es are nothing more than what an unidentified editor thinks has value. Are they the best poems here, probably not, but these are opinions. They are better than average, varied, and some of them you won't see the likes of elsewhere.The use of the Es struck me as being a valuable source of possible learning, It also will give you an idea of what you are up against both as competition and perfecting your craft.
I have no intention of teaching anything, just giving you some pointers to where you can learn. Consider with skepticism, there is no right or wrong in any of this, for how many poets, readers, critics there are how many versions of what poetry is or should be. The only true path is the one you take, there are just perhaps some better ways of getting you along the way.
Who am I? I am a writer, I am a reader, I am a com mentor, I am a critic, in that order. I will not preach, nor even teach much, for I recognise that there is always someone better at something I'm trying to do. I have an ego, it is hoped that this will become your credo.
Why these two? Both have Es, have hit the top list, are consistent, and write in an accessible style. They may not my favorites, but I can see what they are doing. That is a sort of triangulation of what has value. Consider with skepticism.
For new writers Exercises 1,2 all others go to 3
Exercise 1
Click on each of the poets names, at random, click on five of their poems ( what titles attract you) glance, do not read.
My guess is that eight out of ten looked pretty much the same.You may want to skip 2 and go on to 3 if you want to take my word for it, but then you wouldn't be skeptical, now would you?
Exercise 2
Go back to four of them, count the lines, average them. Read the first two lines, no more.
My guess; should be between 12-24 lines, and if you wanted to read more, what they did is piqued your interest, most often good writers will start with strong lines, because the trick is to get people to read what you write.
What you I hope you discovered is a format that is easily readable, and a natural line length, these are tricks is to get people to read what you write, remember. This is what will be known as one of your safe area of operations. It is long enough for you to do things in, but short enough so they don't get bored. Most poety that lasts looks somewhat like this, for those very same reasons.. Easy, huh? Took what, five minutes?
Natural line length, you may want to investigate this on your own, think of a line, say it. The thought closely parallels the breath, strange how that works.
Exercise 3
Now it gets harder.
Take note as to how the line ends. Full stop with a period or does it run on (enjambment) to the next line.We'll get into this in more depth later. The end of the line is very important, just kind of hangs there for people to notice. Good writers most often will take extra care at the beginning and the end of the poem because people notice and the trick is to get people to read what you write.
Exercise 4
Read them both. On Angeline's there is a dissenting comment. I just put it there. (don't worry she got a 100). Agree, disagree? Carefully look at he first two lines now, look at the end words, and in the comments there is an explanation of the last two lines, that I believe justify them. Agree, disagree? Any comments on Ange's leave them there.
I have broken out jd4george's poem as an illustration of what I first see, when I look at a poem. Doing this I noticed something else that is pretty clever.
Two of the Best
Angeline
Emjambin' the Blues
jd4george
Sangria Bloodshed
If you bothered to do any of this, you have done what I consider to be the only two absolutes in poetry. Think and Read.
Comparison of the two poems
Neither poems have what some would consider "poetic" words, "lofty" thoughts, or even many three syllable words. If you are new to poetry you might question it? None are necessary, and more often than not, an impediment to real poetry. Poetry, like it or not, is the realtionship of words to words, in new arrangements. Take a look at this:
"Abjure the day, abjure the press and pleat of Sun," the repeats of abjure leading into the alliteration of press and pleat. "Be my midnight, be my moonlight" Ok, nice repeat, but not exactly something you never saw before, could almost be considered a cliche, except if everything was as strange as most of the rest of it, it would be a little difficult to relate too. This has a function as a return to, to use a music analogy, the tonic.(in other words the familiar) Good writers think of these things, if not consciously at least they have trained their subconscious to do it.
Take a look at the line breaks, in both poems the lines end on strong, important words. Both poems rely on a sort of misdirection, jd4george is not talking about wine, and Angeline is useing words that you'll never hear come out of blues singers mouths. So the title..?
Comparison of the two poets:
At this point, I should bring up the difference between preference and prejudice. I prefer jd, it is easier for me to find the voice (well, we are both men) he is a little more experimental (which I like to see), but it would be prejudicial to think he was a better poet. Both, (if you looked at their other work) use a very simple technique of repeating words, phrases, etc. This is often a key to the understanding, just blatanly a good trick, a return.. Angeline may even be better at the use of this. Both, at least on the surface are easy reads, (so are Yeats and Frost) and that is a good thing to do. Why? Because the trick is to get people to read your stuff
So go read some of theirs, you might learn a thing or two. You also might think about a comment and a vote or two.
A personal aside: About 6 years ago, I asked 10 of the better poets to talk about their work. A lot of work on my part. My reward, I learned a trick or two. I can't emphasise enough, it is work; so much work to make everything seem so natural, so easy.
PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT IN THIS THREAD. We should keep this as clean as possible. Comment in the Perks E thread.
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