editing nightmares

[robertreams]

Any volunteer editors out there have horror stories to tell, i.e. The manuscript from hell! I'll start it out.

After struggling for two hours to make sense of the first four graphs of a barely literate manuscript, I finally message the author that I am so confused I don't think I can continue. The reply i get is: "Well, I have over 300 stories already on Lit. I don't need you."

 

[PennLady]

LOL

I have edited for many people, and sometimes the amount of basic errors in punctuation, spelling, grammar, etc., is astounding. I have had to tell a few of them that I don't mind showing these kind of corrections once, but I will not keep correcting them and a couple I had to stop editing at all b/c they refused to fix those mistakes in the drafts they sent me.

I edited for one author and found the manuscript to be almost unintelligble. So I did a TON of editing, suggesting rewrites and removals of repetitive words and phrases, things like that. The author was very receptive and grateful and used many of my suggestions.

Yet the story was not much more readable for all that. And that's fine -- it is the author's story, so whatever the final version looks like is theirs, etc. But the comments (and this was what led me to muse on the lack of critical readers) were glowing, adoring the story, urging the author to try publishing, etc.

Ah well.

 

[Ironiclaconic]

I have only edited once, and the writer favored a stream-of-consciousness style where it was often impossible to tell the difference between a grammar problem and artistic choice. I flashed back to my failed attempt at reading Finnegan's Wake, and imagined Joyce's editor crying himself to sleep every night. (Is "Americorps" a typo or a political statement?)

She was a good writer, so I saw it as a challenge rather than a slog, and tried anyway.

I struggled with it for two hours before writing back that I wouldn't be editing for standard punctuation and spelling unless it was an obvious typo, and mostly just left comments about passages where I was really confused or was knocked out of the story by something like a mixed metaphor or word overuse. Still not sure whether I added much value...

 

[robertreams]

I have only edited once, and the writer favored a stream-of-consciousness style where it was often impossible to tell the difference between a grammar problem and artistic choice. I flashed back to my failed attempt at reading Finnegan's Wake, and imagined Joyce's editor crying himself to sleep every night. (Is "Americorps" a typo or a political statement?)

She was a good writer, so I saw it as a challenge rather than a slog, and tried anyway.

I struggled with it for two hours before writing back that I wouldn't be editing for standard punctuation and spelling unless it was an obvious typo, and mostly just left comments about passages where I was really confused or was knocked out of the story by something like a mixed metaphor or word overuse. Still not sure whether I added much value...

boy I can relate to this one. I recently had an author with the same problem. The scene was a college campus, but every person in the story spoke like a valley girl, but worse. I had the same problem as you,, I didn't know if it was the character who was illiterate or the author. After two more tries to communicate, i still don't know. How can one edit something like that? Yet almost everyone I have a problem with, gets published on Lit. ??

On the other hand, some I treat like my former students, Most are more eager to learn and more likely to take my advice w/o a fight. Here is a good question: is it offensive if you ask a writer, "Is English your native language?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Any volunteer editors out there have horror stories to tell, i.e. The manuscript from hell!

Not in fiction - I don't offer to edit unless I've seen enough of the author's work to know what I'm letting myself in for.

But in non-fiction tech editing I once had to submit 80 pages of corrections for a 600-page book where the authors were way out of their depth. (Geeks might feel some of my pain if I mention that they claimed to have a simple algorithm for solving NP-hard problems.) The only good thing about that job was getting paid for it.

 

[DeYaKen]

Depends on who is asking and why

boy I can relate to this one. I recently had an author with the same problem. The scene was a college campus, but every person in the story spoke like a valley girl, but worse. I had the same problem as you,, I didn't know if it was the character who was illiterate or the author. After two more tries to communicate, i still don't know. How can one edit something like that? Yet almost everyone I have a problem with, gets published on Lit. ??

On the other hand, some I treat like my former students, Most are more eager to learn and more likely to take my advice w/o a fight. Here is a good question: is it offensive if you ask a writer, "Is English your native language?

I have had a comment that said something like "English is obviously not your native language." I am English, so it could have been offensive. What the person meant was that US English is not my native language.

The subject of offense is important and it is the main reason why I like to use the same editor all the time. They get to know me and I get to know them.

How does an editor take it when the writer responds to their critique with. "I see what you mean, I think I'll just scrap this story?"

Do you think that the writer is a prima donna and is sulking because you dared to criticise their story?

Do you think that the writer gives up too easily?

Does it discourage you from editing another of their stories.

I've done this thrice and in each cases the editor concerned thought I was over reacting. The reality was that the editors critique showed me that the story was never going to be what I wanted it to be. I don't believe in throwing good money after bad.

I have to admit that I never gave any thought as to how the editor might take it. Selfish I know but I only saw my point of view, why waste anymore time on something which was basically flawed? I hadn't considered the fact that the editor had put time and effort into something which would never see the light of day.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I have had a comment that said something like "English is obviously not your native language." I am English, so it could have been offensive. What the person meant was that US English is not my native language.

The subject of offense is important and it is the main reason why I like to use the same editor all the time. They get to know me and I get to know them.

How does an editor take it when the writer responds to their critique with. "I see what you mean, I think I'll just scrap this story?"

Do you think that the writer is a prima donna and is sulking because you dared to criticise their story?

Do you think that the writer gives up too easily?

Does it discourage you from editing another of their stories.

I've done this thrice and in each cases the editor concerned thought I was over reacting. The reality was that the editors critique showed me that the story was never going to be what I wanted it to be. I don't believe in throwing good money after bad.

I have to admit that I never gave any thought as to how the editor might take it. Selfish I know but I only saw my point of view, why waste anymore time on something which was basically flawed? I hadn't considered the fact that the editor had put time and effort into something which would never see the light of day.

African or Asian-English? Since you became a 4th rate colony its easy to mistake a real Limey for a wog.

 

[LaRascasse]

Not in fiction - I don't offer to edit unless I've seen enough of the author's work to know what I'm letting myself in for.

But in non-fiction tech editing I once had to submit 80 pages of corrections for a 600-page book where the authors were way out of their depth. (Geeks might feel some of my pain if I mention that they claimed to have a simple algorithm for solving NP-hard problems.) The only good thing about that job was getting paid for it.

If they did, then the world as we know it will change forever.

 

[sr71plt]

I have had a comment that said something like "English is obviously not your native language." I am English, so it could have been offensive. What the person meant was that US English is not my native language.

It's a leap of wishful thinking to assert that's what the commenter meant. The commenter may have been completely off base, but chances are much higher that the claim was that your presentation was subpar as English, not that you were using British English rather than American English.

In any event you can't know what they meant unless you pursued the question further with them and they gave their comment fuller explanation.

 

[sr71plt]

My irritations have been in authors not having picked up on corrected major bad writing habits in subsequent edits and in formatting their stories as if they were designing their unique idea of a book format.

 

[PennLady]

How does an editor take it when the writer responds to their critique with. "I see what you mean, I think I'll just scrap this story?"

Do you think that the writer is a prima donna and is sulking because you dared to criticise their story?

Do you think that the writer gives up too easily?

Does it discourage you from editing another of their stories.

I don't take it personally when a writer wants to scrap a story, although I will probably try to talk them out of it. I also don't think they are necessarily a prima donna, but I do think many writers get possessive/protective of their stories and so when they receive criticism, they get defensive. Some get so defensive they refuse to consider anything that changes what they've written. I generally back off at that point. I've offered my suggestions and if they don't want them, that's fine.

But then I think this also gets at the questions of what is an editor and what do they do. This is why I ask what kind of editing a writer wants. Do they just want mechanical stuff like punctuation, or do they want feedback on the content?

If a writer says they want the latter, or both, then they have to be ready for someone to say that X doesn't work, or Y might work better.

I just went back and forth with someone because I felt that the characters' actions and reactions didn't fit, and the frequent answer was that the characters had to act that way in order for other things to make sense, etc. I think the same end result could have been achieved with a few changes, but the writer resisted.

I've done this thrice and in each cases the editor concerned thought I was over reacting. The reality was that the editors critique showed me that the story was never going to be what I wanted it to be. I don't believe in throwing good money after bad.

I have to admit that I never gave any thought as to how the editor might take it. Selfish I know but I only saw my point of view, why waste anymore time on something which was basically flawed? I hadn't considered the fact that the editor had put time and effort into something which would never see the light of day.

But just because one person thinks the story isn't working one way doesn't mean that a) they are right or b) slight tweaks wouldn't fix the problem. A critique doesn't necessarily mean a story is flawed to the point that it must be scrapped, but that's up to the writer.

 

[DeYaKen]

I don't take it personally when a writer wants to scrap a story, although I will probably try to talk them out of it. I also don't think they are necessarily a prima donna, but I do think many writers get possessive/protective of their stories and so when they receive criticism, they get defensive. Some get so defensive they refuse to consider anything that changes what they've written. I generally back off at that point. I've offered my suggestions and if they don't want them, that's fine.

But then I think this also gets at the questions of what is an editor and what do they do. This is why I ask what kind of editing a writer wants. Do they just want mechanical stuff like punctuation, or do they want feedback on the content?

If a writer says they want the latter, or both, then they have to be ready for someone to say that X doesn't work, or Y might work better.

I just went back and forth with someone because I felt that the characters' actions and reactions didn't fit, and the frequent answer was that the characters had to act that way in order for other things to make sense, etc. I think the same end result could have been achieved with a few changes, but the writer resisted.

But just because one person thinks the story isn't working one way doesn't mean that a) they are right or b) slight tweaks wouldn't fix the problem. A critique doesn't necessarily mean a story is flawed to the point that it must be scrapped, but that's up to the writer.

We obviously see eye to eye on that.

I can see my rambling has dragged this thread off subject, so I will gracefully withdraw.

 

[LaRascasse]

I had this story once which had something like:

"She put her vagina into his throbbing cock."

The rest of the story didn't make much more sense.

 

[PennLady]

I was editing for someone and was so ... flummoxed that I sent three graphs to someone else. I kept it anonymous, and this someone else does not read Lit. They thought no one could write that badly unless it was on purpose.

 

[_Lynn_]

I was editing for someone and was so ... flummoxed that I sent three graphs to someone else. I kept it anonymous, and this someone else does not read Lit. They thought no one could write that badly unless it was on purpose.

I don''t know if this is something I should admit or not . . .

Someone asked me to look at their story. They hadn't ever written before but thought it might be fun. The story fell off the track in the first paragraph. Like you, PL, I sent part to someone else for a second opinion. Nothing made sense though.

I didn't want to tell them it was crap, so I sent some comments and suggestions on the shifting tense, gaps between scenes that didn't flow in any way, word repetition and the normal grammar, punctuation, etc. They sent me a long reply, apologizing for taking up so much of my time with what they then called garbage . . . and told me the edit convinced them they could never be a writer. They didn't realize it was so much work to write a "simple little story" and they had better things to do than learn about a craft they didn't really have an interest in anyway. They also said the effort taught them to respect authors for the work they do.

 

[robertreams]

I don''t know if this is something I should admit or not . . .

Someone asked me to look at their story. They hadn't ever written before but thought it might be fun. The story fell off the track in the first paragraph. Like you, PL, I sent part to someone else for a second opinion. Nothing made sense though.

I didn't want to tell them it was crap, so I sent some comments and suggestions on the shifting tense, gaps between scenes that didn't flow in any way, word repetition and the normal grammar, punctuation, etc. They sent me a long reply, apologizing for taking up so much of my time with what they then called garbage . . . and told me the edit convinced them they could never be a writer. They didn't realize it was so much work to write a "simple little story" and they had better things to do than learn about a craft they didn't really have an interest in anyway. They also said the effort taught them to respect authors for the work they do.

Oh Mistress Lynn, you have made my day. You mean this is work? I love it. Thank you for giving me my first laugh of the day.

 

[_Lynn_]

Oh Mistress Lynn, you have made my day. You mean this is work? I love it. Thank you for giving me my first laugh of the day.

Ah, a successful day then.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Writing stories is simple, and everyone knows how to do it as they've been exposed to stories almost from day one. No how to write book ever recommends studying Mother Goose or the Grimm Brothers or Hans Christian Andersen, but that's the nursery of writing.

I think we need to handle editing like drill instructors handle Marine recruits.