Dress as a muslim for extra credit!

[Wildcard Ky]

I stumbled across this on another board. It raises some very interesting questions. A school in Oregon devoted 4 weeks of class time to studying Islam.

Another school has been "teaching" Islam by having students study and learn Muslim prayers and dress as Muslims, and a lawyer who argued a previous dispute over this issue to the U.S. Supreme Court said such methodologies wouldn't "last 10 seconds" if it were Christianity being taught.

"Would it have been 'just cultural education' if students were in simulated baptisms, wearing a crucifix, having taken the name of St. John and with praise banners saying 'Praise be to Jesus Christ' on classroom walls?" asked Edward White III, of the Thomas More Law Center.

His comments came after a new protest arose in Nyssa, Ore., where one parent raised objections when the Islamic teachings came to light. The district there, according to Supt. Don Grotting, is teaching a chapter in a history textbook "Journey Across Time" that talks about "how civilization has developed and some of the particular aspects of Islam."

"We teach out of the book, and there are some supplemental class activities," he told WND. "The kids do some skits, they could bring a food from the region, you could build a prop that would have depicted (something) maybe during that time period.

"If you wanted to you could dress up (as a Muslim) for extra credit," he said.

Still another assignment was to learn the "five pillars" of Islam, study Ramadan and listen to guest speakers including an American Muslim who arrived dressed in her religious costume to talk to the kids about her Quran.

Parent Kendalee Garner, however, objected to having her son being taught Islam and also to the time the public school system spends on the subject.

She said that her 13-year-old son is being "indoctrinated that Islam is a religion of peace, and being dressed up as a Muslim, being taught prayers, and scriptures out of the Quran."

"I just don't understand the ban on Christianity but Islam has free rein," she said.


I can understand the point of view on this. Another thread was started on this board today by a parent upset that someone was handing out bibles to her kids outside of school. Yet Islam gets 4 weeks of class time in which you're basically given Islam 101 to include prayers, ramadan, Quran and dress codes.

Would we stand for Christianity being given the same latitude of "cultural education"?

If not, why the double standard for allowing Islam into the classroom, but not Christianity?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Iwhy the double standard for allowing Islam into the classroom, but not Christianity?

Neither of them belong being taught in the classroom, imho... sounds to me like someone's got a political agenda...

 

[3113]

I'm in agreement with the parents. 4 weeks is way too much time to study any religion in class, even if it is a religious studies class. Two weeks per religion tops. In a...What? 20 week class? That should cover a good 8-10 religions. Leave Paganism and Christianity for last and you can have a Xmas tree in class with a little manger scene underneath

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Are you expecting a real answer to this on this board?

Personally I see it as a ploy of the Imperial Government Indoctrination Centers to have our children ready to appease that ever peaceful religion of Islam.

The government school system, which is run by the teachers union, has attempted this in the past and will attempt it in the future.

I'm not a bit surprized by this.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Are you expecting a real answer to this on this board?

Ummmm yeah. There's enough open minded people on this board to give an honest answer.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Ummmm yeah. There's enough open minded people on this board to give an honest answer.

Yes there are. I think they will. Just as I have given mine.

 

[Antfarmer77]

Teach all of them or none of them.

 

[3113]

Teach all of them or none of them.

Well...yes and no. The problem is that religion is a political and social factor. Especially in a theocracy like, say, Iran.

In a good many cases, the way people think and act and the laws they live by are related to their religion. It's integral to the society. So knowledge of the religion is useful for a kid to know, if you want them to understand the world and why it works as it works.

There are, however, religions that have very little affect on a country or society. For example, in the U.S. Christianity has always had a big effect, witness that most people have Sundays off, the law limits folk to one spouse, etc. But Jainism has had no effect at all. So why teach it?

I suspect that this whole thing would go over better if it was put into context. If you teach the kids about countries like Iran and Iraq simultanious with teaching them about Islam. Not it is in context: This is why these countries have these laws, why they dress this way, here's the history of the religion and it's affect on politics in this region of the world, etc.

Likewise, Christianity in context would be acceptable as well. Here's the history of the Christian church, it's beliefs and affects on Western politics.

It's only when it's out of context, and concentrated, that it begins to resemble prostiltizing. And prostilizing is going to upset people because the one thing everyone wants is to teach their kids THEIR religon and keep others from influencing them to join some other religion.

 

[Antfarmer77]

But Jainism has had no effect at all. So why teach it?

So we don't teach anything that dosen't have a direct effect? History, for example, seems to have little effect because we, as a society, seem to keep repeating it.
Religon, taught as subject in school and not a doctrine in a church, has the opportunity to be open and objective

 

[Liar]

Huh. I don't see the problem with focusing on learning about a religion that is the top-of-mind debate topic in the entire world for the last few years. (Not to mention subject of more negative prejudice than any other, i dare say.)

But I do see the problem with proportions. 4 weeks? Don't they have any other shit to teach kids, like maths and stuff? A theme day would suffice.

 

[3113]

So we don't teach anything that dosen't have a direct effect? History, for example, seems to have little effect because we, as a society, seem to keep repeating it.

Ah-ah-ah! No putting words in my mouth What I'm saying is that there are SO many religions and branches of religion that the argument to "teach them all or teach none!" makes little sense. All cannot be taught, or rather, not taught well.

And that's as bad as only teaching a few. To give a quickie explaination of Jainism is to risk that it's going to be misunderstood and misinterpeted.

I'm proposing that religions be taught in context, thus, not every branch of Christianity will be taught (Mennonite, for example, might be overlooked), but those that are key to understanding our modern world will be, including Buddism and Hinduism.

As for history not being useful, it is useful if you want a child (or anyone else) to understand why things are the way they are. As for our society making the same mistakes....you're making the assumption that we ARE educated in History. I see no evidence of this. Most people seem badly educated in just about everything, history included.

It is not, however, altogether useless even if what you say is true. Anyone who wants to be an ambassador to the middle east, for example, must understanding BOTH the religon and the history of the region. Anyone ignorant of both is not going to be taken seriously but those who DO know it and are in the middle of that conflict.

 

[sophia jane]

Well...yes and no. The problem is that religion is a political and social factor. Especially in a theocracy like, say, Iran.

In a good many cases, the way people think and act and the laws they live by are related to their religion. It's integral to the society. So knowledge of the religion is useful for a kid to know, if you want them to understand the world and why it works as it works.

There are, however, religions that have very little affect on a country or society. For example, in the U.S. Christianity has always had a big effect, witness that most people have Sundays off, the law limits folk to one spouse, etc. But Jainism has had no effect at all. So why teach it?

I suspect that this whole thing would go over better if it was put into context. If you teach the kids about countries like Iran and Iraq simultanious with teaching them about Islam. Not it is in context: This is why these countries have these laws, why they dress this way, here's the history of the religion and it's affect on politics in this region of the world, etc.

Likewise, Christianity in context would be acceptable as well. Here's the history of the Christian church, it's beliefs and affects on Western politics.

It's only when it's out of context, and concentrated, that it begins to resemble prostiltizing. And prostilizing is going to upset people because the one thing everyone wants is to teach their kids THEIR religon and keep others from influencing them to join some other religion.

This is a good idea, actually. I'd take that class.

 

[gauchecritic]

Maybe a little context would help? Are they having four weeks (not four whole weeks or nothing but, I dare say) of other religions?

This is scaremongering at its worst. In effect what 'they' are saying and what you seem to be supporting, is that we all know Islam is evil and that's what they're teaching our kids.

What you are inadvertantly saying is that your children are already indoctrinated with what I want them to believe and I don't want them to be open minded.

She said that her 13-year-old son is being "indoctrinated that Islam is a religion of peace,

Is that not a good thing to learn?

What next? It's not a good thing to learn that non-whites, gays and communists are just like us?

Get a life, or failing that, a sense of perspective.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Maybe a little context would help? Are they having four weeks (not four whole weeks or nothing but, I dare say) of other religions?

This is scaremongering at its worst. In effect what 'they' are saying and what you seem to be supporting, is that we all know Islam is evil and that's what they're teaching our kids.

What you are inadvertantly saying is that your children are already indoctrinated with what I want them to believe and I don't want them to be open minded.



Is that not a good thing to learn?

What next? It's not a good thing to learn that non-whites, gays and communists are just like us?

Get a life, or failing that, a sense of perspective.

Bullshit. I said nothing of the sort. Quit trying to put words into my mouth, then go back and read the original post. I asked if we would tolerate our kids being given the same dose of Christianity as "cultural education" in school.

Get off your high horse and try a little reading comprehension of what people say before you jump in feet first.

For the record: I'm agnostic, so you might as well drop the thought that I'm some kind of Christianity activist before you even get off on that tangent.

Get a clue, or failing that, some semblance of reading comprehension.

 

[SeaCat]

Wow,

Where were these teachers when I was in school? Teachers with balls? Who would have thought it?

I'll tell you what I was taught in High School about other religeons. They were bad and filled with sinners who would go to HELL end of story. That's all they taught us. (Yep a truly balanced view wasn't it? Oh and I wasn't in a Religios School, I was in a Public School in New England. Yep even Jews were sinners.)

I like 3113's idea. Teach the religion in a context. Spare nothing, show the good as well as the bad. Teach as many as are pertinent. This would combine Social Studies, (do they even teach that any more?) and History as well as current events.

I'm forever thankful that my parents gave me a much broader education in things like religion than the public schools did. I am also forever thankful that they encouraged me to ask questions and to make my own decisions. (They also taught me many more things as I grew up, some of which would no doubt land them in jail now.)

Cat

 

[cloudy]

Bullshit. I said nothing of the sort. Quit trying to put words into my mouth, then go back and read the original post. I asked if we would tolerate our kids being given the same dose of Christianity as "cultural education" in school.

Get off your high horse and try a little reading comprehension of what people say before you jump in feet first.

For the record: I'm agnostic, so you might as well drop the thought that I'm some kind of Christianity activist before you even get off on that tangent.

Get a clue, or failing that, some semblance of reading comprehension.

For what it's worth, your original post does sort of come across that way, whether you intended it to or not. Asking "why the double standard for allowing Islam into the classroom, but not Christianity?" is where it does it for me.

Just sayin'.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

LOL well I like the idea. The school I went to was intense about this sort of thing as well. And it hasn't turned ME into a terrorist or anything either. Furthermore, it's a public school, which surprises me that these parents are raising such a stink. If I recall correctly (and it wasn't that long ago), when I actually DID go to public school, all kinds of shit ran rampant. Drugs, gangs, grafitti, etc. I just can't sympathize with these parents. Send your kids to Catholic school if you don't like the teaching styles of the P.S. system. After I was done with public school I went to a much more diverse private school where we learned about all sorts of religions, had Indian dance classes, celebrated Ramadan and Diwali as a school, and learned three different languages formally. I preferred it much more to public school, and even though we weren't allowed to have religion classes threre because of such diversity and clashing beliefs, we did learn about and celebrate holidays and traditions right alongside the Muslim kids (and other assorted cultures).

Half the time, Caucasion kids would come to school in saris just because. We emulated each other's traditional clothing style, and this sort of thing went on all year.

These parents bitch about four weeks of learning? They wouldn't last a fucking day at my old school.

 

[gauchecritic]

<>It raises some very interesting questions.<>

<>I can understand the point of view on this.<>

What else do you want me to infer?

Another thread was started on this board today by a parent upset that someone was handing out bibles to her kids outside of school. Yet Islam gets 4 weeks of class time in which you're basically given Islam 101 to include prayers, ramadan, Quran and dress codes.

Would we stand for Christianity being given the same latitude of "cultural education"?

If not, why the double standard for allowing Islam into the classroom, but not Christianity?

You made the connection. So the implication is that you agree. (and especially the last line of tar using the one brush.)

You're probably a victim of my jaded view of "USA, USA, USA" since we lost our world standing at global domination and my view of Yanqui is only slowly being tempered by the many and varied citizens of the US that I've met on the interweb.

I'm British, worse I'm Yorkshire. What can I say?

 

[R. Richard]

I see no problem teaching religion in the public schools, as long as they allot equal time for my religion. I'm a Thug. I worship the Goddess of the Moon, Thugee, the one true aspect of the Hindu Goddess Kali. Oh yeah, my religion is better than your erligion. We Thugs go out and kill tourists, preferably during the night of the full moon. We dedicate the body to Thugee. The money, jewelry, watch, clothing, we keep to sustain us, as Thugee is interested only in the dead body. Google it up!

Actually, it is illegal to be a practicing Thug, so I currently perform the rites of the Assassins. Hey, the Assassins are a branch of Islam, a peace loving religion!

 

[3113]

I see no problem teaching religion in the public schools, as long as they allot equal time for my religion. I'm a Thug. I worship the Goddess of the Moon, Thugee, the one true aspect of the Hindu Goddess Kali. Oh yeah, my religion is better than your erligion. We Thugs go out and kill tourists, preferably during the night of the full moon. We dedicate the body to Thugee. The money, jewelry, watch, clothing, we keep to sustain us, as Thugee is interested only in the dead body. Google it up!

Actually, it is illegal to be a practicing Thug, so I currently perform the rites of the Assassins. Hey, the Assassins are a branch of Islam, a peace loving religion!

I think you need to join my religion, Richard. SDR. Sex, Drugs and Rock'n'Roll. I promise you it will keep your mind on what important in life.

 

[Liar]

As long as we make the nessecary difference between teaching reilgions and teaching about religions, I'm all in favor of the latter.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

It raises some very interesting questions.

Is the question of whether we would tolerate Christianity being taught in the same manner an interesting question? Would allowing Islam, but refusing Christianity be a double standard? I think that's a pretty interesting question too.

I can understand the point of view on this.

I can understand the point of view of Christians feeling that there's a double standard. From what I see, it is a double standard. That's not saying that one is better than the other, or that one is right and the other wrong. That is saying that a great deal of time and detail is spent on one religion, but not another.

"Would it have been 'just cultural education' if students were in simulated baptisms, wearing a crucifix, having taken the name of St. John and with praise banners saying 'Praise be to Jesus Christ' on classroom walls?" asked Edward White III, of the Thomas More Law Center.


I think that is a very poignant question. Would you tolerate your child spending 4 weeks of doing that in school?

 

[R. Richard]

I think you need to join my religion, Richard. SDR. Sex, Drugs and Rock'n'Roll. I promise you it will keep your mind on what important in life.

Sadly, I do not play an instrument and my singing voice is normally compared unfavorably to the croaking of a toad. Thus, I aint gonna' make in a rock'n'roll band. Thus, I still need a way to earn money. Thugee rules!

 

[3113]

This is scaremongering at its worst. In effect what 'they' are saying and what you seem to be supporting, is that we all know Islam is evil and that's what they're teaching our kids.

Again, yes and no. Two things you have to understand:

1) There are a lot of Christians who are upset that schools cannot teach "religion" whether that be keeping Creationism out of the science class or refusing to allow prayers before an assembly. They think it's desperately important that God be in the kid's life 24/7 and they think that God won't be in their lives if they don't get it in School.

Now, of course, what they really want it to prostiltize their particular branch of religion (likely Christianity) to all the kids and convert them. Or at least make sure that all kids believe in God.

So, from their perspective, there's been all this argument, lawsuits, protests, etc. rejecting THEIR God from the classroom...but Allah gets a free ride? This is how they view it and they're upset at the unfairness of it.

2) There is an element of scaremongering--but it's not entirely based on the idea that Islam is an evil religion. It's based on what I mentioned before: the idea that their kids are being indoctrinated into a religion not of their choosing. And certain branches of Christianity do believe that any non-believer is going to hell...so they certainly don't want their children going to hell for believing in a false religion.

I don't know if they have a case that what's being taught is indoctrinating the kids. But this is a very fine line that the school is walking. Immersing the kids in one religion for that long makes it look like they're indoctrinating them rather than educating them. Which is going to scare any parent.

GRANTED, some of those parents are likely bigoted against Islam, as most of the U.S. currently is. The school, trying it's best to be open-minded and teach the kids that it's not the religion so much as certain fanatics in the religion, has gone overboard, I think, on the side of teaching tolerance. It's a good thing...but it's also draws attention to it. It draws attention it by making the parents take notice and protest, and that, in turn, makes the kids wonder what's REALLY wrong with this religion that they're not being told? Why are the parents so upset?

And the parents, if they bluntly explain ("It's evil!"), pass on the bigotry. Which might not have been mentioned at all except that the school went overboard and now there's a big deal being made about this.

Yes. Such things should be taught. Kids should get a religious/civic/social studies/history lesson and so be informed on various belief systems. It will make them wiser, more tolerent of others difference, it may lead to peaceful conversations rather than misunderstandings and wars. But schools must be sensitive to how they teach them such things. Otherwise...they end up in the news....and the end results....

I'm guessing that Islam doesn't get taught again at that school.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

It raises some very interesting questions.I think that is a very poignant question. Would you tolerate your child spending 4 weeks of doing that in school?

Yes, as long as my child(ren) understood that it wasn't my belief system. However if they take postive aspects from the lesson and can give me a historical overview, then that's the whole point. If, for some reason, my child connects deeply with the Christian beliefs, then wonderful. I'd help him/her nurture that. I really don't see what the big problem is. I've been raising and helping to raise kids since I was 13 and from a "surrogate" point of view I see nothing wrong with this. However if it affects my child to the point where they don't like it, then yes, I would have some things to say and I'd want to find out why it was bothering my child so much. In that case I'd have a big problem.