Drawing the reader in

[ComelyWench]

It was suggested on another forum that I post my question here...

I find that a lot of stories written in 3rd person leave me feeling like a bystander, watching the action. It is my goal in my writing to draw the reader into the story... to let them feel like they are there, almost part of the action.

I write in first person... and generally the "partner" in my stories are simply referred to as "you". It can sometimes be very awkward reading stories where the only characters are "I" and "you", but I think I do a pretty good job of pulling off this style. And because my stories are generally written with a particular person in mind, this style feels like a good fit.

However, I would like to be able to write in 3rd person, and I can't seem to get that style of writing to have the same draw as first person. The stories feel more dead... like the difference between hearing a narration after the fact rather than seeing an event.

So my questions would be:

1) How do you feel I do at 1st person writing? Does it feel comfortable and draw you in, or does it feel awkward?

2) How do others successfully use 3rd person style of writing and draw the reader into the story? Does present tense work better than past tense? Any other tips you could offer?

Thanks!

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=124823

 

[Pookie]

Your link is not working as it is posted now. Use the edit feature to cut and paste your link again.

The first stories I wrote are first person present tense as well. It is a difficult style to write in. But it can be very effective if done with care. You have to be able to let the reader see through the protagonist's eyes and also hear their thoughts and words ... sometimes those words are not spoken. I know there is plenty of room for improvement in my stories. But I agree that first person when done well can bring a reader deeper into a story than third person.

I do know some readers don't like first person. It's tricky because you can't tell the reader anything the protagonist doesn't experience firsthand. It limits your ability to explain "what is happening in the next room" that will dramatically affect his/her life.

 

[Pookie]

This is for your story Photo Finish .

 

[BigTexan]

Comely,

First off, the story "Photo Finish" is in second person not first person. This is because you are writing to the reader. Doing this you make the reader a character in your stories.

I personally dislike this POV because I'm rarely the person the writer was intending when he/she wrote the story and reading that I did something I didn't do and wouldn't have done bugs me.

On to your second question. The best way to draw the reader into your story, when writing in any POV, is to give them a reason to care about your characters. Make your characters "come alive" for the reader.

You do this by the little consistant details you give about your characters. Make sure that the way they speak is consistant, not just with how they would speak, but with how they have spoken. In other words, if you have a Texan in your story, make him talk like a Texan and always make sure he talks like himself.

Also, give your characters little idiosyncrasies that personalize the character. This lets the reader go "hey, I know a guy like that." And it draws them into the story.

Last but by no means least. Let your characters feel, think, breath, smell, taste, and care. Give your characters life. Don't make them just act like cardboard cutouts standing around doing nothing until you need them. Flesh them out, give them feelings, emotions, conflicts, and cares. Make them worry about catching the morning train, or seeing a spider in the shower. Give the reader a reason to empathize with your characters.

This will bring your story to life and suck your readers in.

But to really get your readers in, from the very first, you also need a "hook."

A hook is a sentence or paragraph that you start your story with, that makes the reader want to know what is going on. This is the first step in drawing in a reader. Get them interested in the next paragraph and then you have the chance to build the characters. Then you have them.

Anyways, this is what I think. I hope it helps you in some way.

BigTexan

 

[M.A.Thompson]

1) How do you feel I do at 1st person writing? Does it feel comfortable and draw you in, or does it feel awkward?

2) How do others successfully use 3rd person style of writing and draw the reader into the story? Does present tense work better than past tense? Any other tips you could offer?

I personally am not a fan of first person or present tense, no matter how good the writing is. One inherent problem with first person is that the author has to assign the reader a gender. When you write, “I savor your hard cock,” you have just alienated your female audience. And even though I am a male, I never believe first person stories because you don’t know me, you don’t know what I would do or how I would react if I was really in your story. As I reader, I resent "you" telling "me" what I am doing.

As far as present tense, I am not a fan of that either. The flow always seems wrong and 95% of authors inevitably slip tense back into past. You did in the third paragraph.

“This was just too strange.”

I, myself, have never felt that a first person, present tense story drew me into it anymore than a well-written third person, past tense story did. More often than not, I connect less with those types.

This is not a review of your story, (for the record, it is writen well, just not my taste) it is just my take on your 'First person, Present tense' question.

So, how do you draw your reader into your story………

Quality writing, believable plot, careful sentence structure, intelligent characters, vivid detailing and blistering sex.

It's a piece of cake!!!!!!

 

[Whispersecret]

Big Tex is right. First person is where the narrator is telling the story. Second person is where the narrator is telling to story to the reader, who is him/herself a character in the story.

I'm not a fan of second person, for all the reasons mentioned above. More importantly, and especially considering ComelyWench's concerns, I feel as if I'm an outsider. Second person pushes me out, rather than pulls me in. It smacks to me of a cyber-session that someone decided to post as a story, even if that's not the case. I feel like I, the reader, am being thrown a scrap from the table after the people have had their fill.

Present tense is difficult to pull off. LIke MA, I too see beginning writers lapse into past tense accidentally, which pulls me out of the story, if I ever actually got into it in the first place. I'll admit there is a vague sense of immediacy to the events, since they are supposedly happening as I read, but there is also a strange restriction on sentence structure and tenses that I can't explain. Maybe an English major could puzzle it out.

I think it's avante garde now to write in present tense, a la Bridget Jones, and it also seems to come more naturally to novice writers, however, I think present tense is awkward to manage as a writer and uncomfortable for me to read.

 

[ComelyWench]

I tend to agree with many of your comments... though the one about alienating half of the readers by the second person perspective was one I hadn't considered. Thanks for pointing that out... it could be very helpful to watch for that in the future! Maybe a shift to 1st/3rd person would be better than 1st/2nd for that reason.

The "Photo Finish" story was actually written for a particular friend... I submitted it here simply because I liked it. But if I am writing something for a larger audience I'd like to have larger appeal (is that selfish? LOL) And while I don't mind a GOOD 1st person/second person story, I REALLY dislike most 3rd person present tense. Once you move to 3rd person, I think past tense is a requirement.

So now my question would be how to incorporate 3rd person past tense into a story most effectively, since that seems to be the most preferred style? I see some that work, and some that don't, but I can't seem to identify the traits that MAKE them work. What sorts of things turn a story from basic narration to something where you feel you are a part of the action?

I'm NOT a writer, but I am a total perfectionist... this is all totally new to me and I've enjoyed it a lot, so I'm hoping to improve my skills.

Thanks for your comments so far.

 

[Pookie]

Here is some info I have saved that might help. It is a fairly simple and straightforward introduction to prespective and tense. This is a copy and paste:

Poison Pen's Guide for Amateur Writers of Erotica
by Andrew Nellis, aka the Poison Pen © 1997

PERSPECTIVE

Perspective [first person]:
In a story which uses the first person perspective, a narrator describes the action for us in his or her own voice. This can be a very effective technique when used well, but often reads like "What I Did On My Summer Vacation" if it is done badly.

Remember first that the narrator cannot describe what he or she did not witness or is not aware of. This is one of the weaknesses of the first person perspective. For this reason, it is recommended that beginners avoid the first person and stick to third person. If you are going to use first person, one tool which can be useful for avoiding this problem is telling the story in the first person from the perspective of more than one character, switching between characters as required.

In particular, avoid falling into the trap of beginning every sentence or paragraph with "Then I did this." If your story is nothing more than a laundry list of the narrator's actions, it would be much better to use third person.

Perspective [second person]:
In a story which uses the second person perspective, the story tells the reader what he or she did or is doing. "You did this, and then you did that," would be an example of second person perspective. It is with good reason that this is not an often-used perspective, since it requires considerable skill to keep it from sounding clunky and awkward. It is highly recommended that the beginner avoid using this perspective altogether.

There is a definite role for the second person perspective in erotic writing, however. Since the purpose of erotic writing is to sexually engage the reader, and since the easiest way to do this is to draw the reader into the role of participant within the story, second person enjoys a usefulness in the genre that it does not in most others. Be wary of overusing this tool, since its effectiveness diminishes with use.

Perspective [third person]:
Third person is the most common perspective used in stories, and is the easiest for a novice to master.

The most usual variation of the third person is known as "third person omniscient." With this perspective, the author writes from the effective perspective of God, able to look into each character's head and read his or her thoughts, moving from place to place and character to character with infinite speed. One weakness of this variation is that it removes the ability of the author to lie to the reader. Since the perspective is omniscient, all the statements made in the "voice of God" must be absolutely true. It is difficult, though not impossible, to maintain secrecy from the reader; this must be done by omission, and it must be done cleverly or the reader will become suspicious and any surprise or tension will be lost.

A second variation is the "third person semi-omniscient." In this case, while the author writes from the effective perspective of God, it is with limitations. For example, the thoughts and motives of the characters may not be available by the author. This perspective can be useful when trying to maintain some mystery in a story, since it allows characters to hide things from the readers without drawing attention to it.

The other major variation of third person involves a fallible, non- omniscient perspective. Using this voice, the author can actually state deliberate lies to actively fool the reader. For example, to keep the gender of a character a mystery, the author may refer to a "him" as a "her" and vice versa, until this subterfuge becomes known by the characters in the story. This can be a difficult perspective to use, and it is recommended that the novice avoid it.

TENSE

Past Tense:
For the beginner, past tense is the best option. It is easiest to master, and is familiar to all readers. Having already happened, it allows the author to shift backward and forward in time as required to tell the story.

Present Tense:
Present tense can be an extremely effective tool when used right, since it drops the reader right into the action, and gives the story a sense of immediacy, particularly when combined with first or second person. This is a difficult ploy to use, however, as it requires a great deal of skill to maintain proper pacing and flow. It should absolutely be avoided by the novice. This is NOT a tool for the beginner to use, and in the wrong hands can make a story painfully unreadable.

 

[BigTexan]

Pookie!

Thanks for that post. Mr. Nellis posseses a lucidity I can only drool over.

Right now I'm seeing a wild increase in the number of second person / present tense stories hitting the new stories list. It makes me wonder why?

I don't think the readers like them. I know I don't like them. I know we've discussed this before on this board, with some passion as I recall But I never really figured out what the facination with this is.

BigTexan

 

[Whispersecret]

Right now I'm seeing a wild increase in the number of second person / present tense stories hitting the new stories list. It makes me wonder why?

Could it be because a great deal of beginning writers here post stories that are their fantasies on paper? Because I'm thinking that perhaps because they are an active participant in their own fantasies, that they're merely projecting that to some unknown reader out there, who just happens to be "you." So, second person just seems a natural choice.

OR, perhaps there are just a lot of people out there who cyber or frequent chat rooms. You can't cyber in past tense.

OR, it's a case of monkey-see monkey-do.

So now my question would be how to incorporate 3rd person past tense into a story most effectively, since that seems to be the most preferred style? I see some that work, and some that don't, but I can't seem to identify the traits that MAKE them work. What sorts of things turn a story from basic narration to something where you feel you are a part of the action?

That's the question of the century, I think, Wench. What draws a reader in is a combination of so many things. A lot of these things can be learned. However, I'm afraid that we're not all cut out to be writers, and some of what makes good writers good is talent, which can't be learned.

My advice is threefold. First, stick around this Author's Hangout. We're constantly batting around writing issues dealing with style, word choice, plot, etc. Second, write. You can't get better unless you practice. Third, critique other people's stories. It sounds weird, but you can really learn TONS yourself when you analyze someone else's work for problems. Go to the feedback board for this. There are always a lot of people clamoring for feedback. Plus, you might get some back yourself.

Hope this helps.

 

[NaughtyMike]

I New England the waitress would ask, "What kinda chowder do ya want, da red or da white?"

A real New Englander would answer, "Da white, da red is not chowder."

I feel the same about second person stories... it is not writing.
I can feel through a first person story, but not a third person.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I'll confess, I didn't read every post, merely skimmed them, so if I'm too repetitive, I understand if no one reads this.

Here's my take. First off, second person ("you") seems totally senseless to me, whether mixed with a firs person story or not, not only because you can't read my mind, but it creates a familiarity that is truly false, and becomes obviously false upon reading the first line. That's a turn-off, especially because the writer is often more involved in their own character than the one that's supposed to be me, hence making "you" a manequinlike character, a large part in the story, but no real personality.

First person can work well if done the right way. You can't remove too much grammar and have it be effective in many cases. I's overused in this way. People add most of thier characterization into thoughts and statements that are far too characterized. For instance, a statement will be made like:

"so I'm in the mall, and this chick comes up to me and starts, like, showing off her titts. And I'm like WOW!"
this statement can be used in dialogue, if the speaking character is a moron (otherwise, why the hell would they say something in this way?), but as part of the monologue that only the reader and not the other characters knows...it kills the story. Flat-out kills the story.

First person can be effective if you use it to cut out too much interference in terms of thought and action from the other characters. In my case, all the stories I have on here are 1st person, mostly because longer stories don't get read very often and I write long if I find I have more detail to add. Third person will always be more effective, but in either case, grammar is the most important thing.

In order to draw a reader in...well, that's an issue of style, and that's something that you really can't ask for help with. Style has to be personal to you, what you add to the story that no one else could. If we plotted a story out right here in this thread, noting key actions and character genders and names, plotting out the story to the end and leaving only the fine details and characterization to the writer. We'd wind up with several very different stories. That's style. It can't be mimicked, it can't be dulicated. It can only be learned by reading and writing.

My suggestion, start the story out with a line that leaves a question in the reader's mind. Every other story here starts with a line like: "Betty was a fine-ass ho who liked to fuck. Like last night when i went over her place..."
A writer, a true writer, reads this and thinks, I'm not reading this shit, this guy/girl is too much of an idiot to have anything to say worth listening to anyway. Say something like: "As Sally looked back at me, I started to wonder about last night. The tears in her eyes, and way she looked down at her feet, as if she couldn't bring herself to look me in the eye. I knew what I'd done was wrong, and I had to be a mna and face up to it."
The first thing a reader will wonder is, what the hell happened last night? That's the hook. They have to read on to find out. Period.
From there, you have to create characters that the reader will care about. Someone else mentioned this. Make them real. They make mistakes they regret, they have fine details that are odd yet interesting. John is in love with Mary, but he's far too shy to outright tell her, especially after she laughed at him playfully when she saw his Snoopy collection. That's characterization.

The details make it work, lack of details make it sink. But ultimately, plot is the real selling point. If there isn't one, don't bother drawing us in.

 

[M.A.Thompson]

A real New Englander would answer, "Da white, da red is not chowder."

A native New Englander, I must disagree. While your statement is true, a real New Englander would not use “Da” in place of “The”. It is words ending with the letter “R”, such as “chowder”, that we have a problem with.

A real New Englander would say……

"The white, the red is not chowdah."

You are confusing us with New Yorkers.

 

[BigTexan]

A native New Englander, I must disagree. While your statement is true, a real New Englander would not use “Da” in place of “The”. It is words ending with the letter “R”, such as “chowder”, that we have a problem with.

A real New Englander would say……

"The white, the red is not chowdah."

You are confusing us with New Yorkers.

And a Texan would say: "Git thayt shit outta muh face and bring me a steak!"

 

[NaughtyMike]

A native New Englander, I must disagree. While your statement is true, a real New Englander would not use “Da” in place of “The”. It is words ending with the letter “R”, such as “chowder”, that we have a problem with.

A real New Englander would say……

"The white, the red is not chowdah."

You are confusing us with New Yorkers.

Thanks for the correction. The New Englnad accent is not the same all over New England. It is harder in places than others. In south Mass, near the RI border I never heard a "th" sound, let alone a "t" sound. Both have been replaced by a "D" such as wad-der (water). In Conn. and Vermont, both the "t" and "th" are both pronounced, but the "o" has become an "a" and "u" to an "au" hence "cack saucker" like Mass.