Dr. Strangelove Would Love This....

Lost Cause

It's a wrap!
Joined
Oct 7, 2001
Posts
30,949
The US shouldn't just leave these things lying around where people might trip over them! Don't buy any beachfront in Tybee Island GA, it might be a temporary deal!


A nuclear bomb, 100 times more powerful than the one dropped on Hiroshima, is lying 10km off the east coast of the United States.

Until now one of the most closely guarded secrets in US military history, its existence has been confirmed in newly declassified documents which reveal how it was dumped in the sea after a mid-air collision more than 40 years ago.

Pentagon officials, though admitting they do not know the bomb's exact location, insist it is safe.

They have rejected demands for it to be recovered, saying it is too dangerous to be touched.

The 3450kg hydrogen bomb, known as a Mark 15 weapon, has been lying off the coast of Georgia since February 5, 1958, when it was jettisoned from a B-47 Stratojet bomber after the plane was struck by a fighter jet during a training exercise at 36,000ft.

One of the bomber's wings was damaged and an engine dislodged.

The pilot, Maj Howard Richardson, was ordered to drop the 3.5m bomb before attempting to land.

He did so near Tybee Island, close to the mouth of the Savannah River.

Despite a 10-week search, the bomb was never found.

In a top-secret memo to the chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC), a Pentagon official wrote: "A B-47 aircraft with a (word censored) nuclear weapon aboard was damaged in a collision with an F-86 aircraft near Sylvania.

"The B-47 aircraft attempted three times unsuccessfully to land with the weapon.

"The weapon was then jettisoned visually over water off the mouth of the Savannah River. No detonation was observed."

Documents reveal the search was called off when another hydrogen bomb was accidentally dropped near Florence, South Carolina.

A TNT explosive trigger detonated on impact, but the actual nuclear device did not explode.

Troops looking for the bomb off the coast were then ordered to Florence to conduct a clean-up operation. They never returned to Tybee Island.

"The search for this weapon was discontinued on 4-16-'58 and the weapon is considered irretrievably lost," one of the declassified documents states.

The military suspected the bomb plunged into water 6m deep, coming to rest beneath about 5m of sand.

The bomb's existence was only made public when a salvage company, run by former CIA officer Bert Soleau, offered to find it.

Now Georgians are demanding action, but the military is standing firm, saying recovery could take five years and cost $23 million.

Officials claim the bomb is safe because, though it contained 180kg of TNT to trigger the atomic explosion, a vital link between the TNT and the nuclear device had been removed. Without the link -- in this case a capsule containing plutonium -- detonation was impossible.

This has been challenged by former servicemen and residents, who have discovered documents stating it was armed.

Derek Duke, a former US Air Force pilot from Savannah, cites a 1966 memo to the Congress Joint Committee on Atomic Energy by W.J. Howard, then assistant to the secretary of defence, stating that the bomb was a "complete weapon".

Howard H. Nixon, a former crew chief who loaded nuclear weapons on to planes at Georgia's Hunter Army Airfield from 1957 to 1959, said the bombs were always armed.

"Never in my air force career did I install a Mark 15 weapon without installing the plutonium capsule," he said.

The capsule debate has failed to convince Mr Duke. "It's a nuclear bomb," he said.

"It's like if I take the battery out of your car, then I try to convince you it's not a car."

Tybee Islanders agree. Mayor Walter Parker said: "It's in the best interest of everybody that it be found to determine what condition the weapon is in."

Resident Ken Wade was more blunt: "There is no doubt we've got a nuclear bomb right here in our neighbourhood."

AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D
 
yes, but do they have moose?

i don't think so.
 
In a top-secret memo to the chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC), a Pentagon official wrote: "A B-47 aircraft with a (word censored) nuclear weapon aboard was damaged in a collision with an F-86 aircraft near Sylvania.

Any guesses as to what the censored word was?

I'll propose "motherfucking".
 
phrodeau said:


Any guesses as to what the censored word was?

I'll propose "motherfucking".
LOL Mr Phrodeau!

Assuming this is all legit ... what's the radius from the approximate site that would be directly affected by detonation? I'm guessing we're all fucked ... the tybeeants may be the lucky ones
 
So that's what that thing is...And I been using it for a planter all these years...Well, don't that just beat all!:rolleyes:
 
Saytur said:
Assuming this is all legit ... what's the radius from the approximate site that would be directly affected by detonation? I'm guessing we're all fucked ... the tybeeants may be the lucky ones
I'm no nuke expert, so I may be wrong, but I'm also making rough guesses.

The Hiroshima bomb incinerated everything within about a .6-km radius, and radiated everything about 1 km around that. The bomb in the water is said to be 100 times more powerful than "Little Boy," but that doesn't translate directly to blast radii.

Also, water is a pretty decent blanket of radiation, and would probably do a fair job of holding down the blast, depending on how deep the bomb is submerged.

So, at worst, I don't think it would even affect any person on land, though if it did detonate, you probably wouldn't be able to swim there for about a century or two.

TB4p
 
Lost Cause said:
<SNIP>"The weapon was then jettisoned visually over water off the mouth of the Savannah River. No detonation was observed."

I think they,as well as others,would've noticed if it had detonated after being jettisoned.
Shit even the Russkies would've raised a couple of eyebrows.
Got to love official language.

:D
 
I wonder what the casing is made of because sea water will eat through a lot off stuff in the long run.

Radiation isn't all that good for metal either.:eek:
 
fgarvb1 said:
I wonder what the casing is made of because sea water will eat through a lot off stuff in the long run.

Radiation isn't all that good for metal either.:eek:

Now that you mention radiation.
The US military has ruled out digging the thing up something I'll not mention.But I wonder if they have monitored radiation levels in the water.
It would be the least they could do.
 
teddybear4play said:
The Hiroshima bomb incinerated everything within about a .6-km radius, and radiated everything about 1 km around that. The bomb in the water is said to be 100 times more powerful than "Little Boy," but that doesn't translate directly to blast radii.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were "air-bursts" and won't provide any comparison to an underwater blast. The H-Bomb tests at Bikini Atoll would provide a better comparison -- one of them was an underwater blast of a bomb similar to this one.

I don't think a nuclear detonation is a real possibility in this case, even if the bomb is in fact "complete" and armed. I think corrosion and accretion have probably made a full (fusion) detonation a very remote possibility.

I do think the military should retrive the bomb and make sure it's not leaking radiation or causing heavy metal poisoning in the local sea-life. They probably won't retrive it though, because it would require dredging it out of the sandbar it buried itself in -- it's probably buried about 50-75 ft under the bottom of the bay. (that's just a WAG based on the shape of the bombs of that era and the shallow, sandy conditions where it was lost and I could be off by about +/- 100 ft.)
 
Sleep well...............

Look there's more! I also found an article on a B-36 jettisoning a nuke by Vancouver Island, BC which was not recovered. These are only the disclosed Broken Arrows, let's not go to the real classified shit!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
In March 1958, a month after the Savannah incident, a similar bomb, but without a nuclear payload, was dropped from a B-47 over Florence, South Carolina. Exploding over ground zero, it injured six people and left an enormous crater. The high explosives used to trigger an atomic bomb are by themselves a significant threat.

Three years later, on January 24, 1961, two bombs fell from a Strategic Air Command B-52 when it broke up over Goldsboro, North Carolina. A parachute provided one bomb with a soft landing, but the other buried itself beneath soggy farmland. After excavating to a depth of 50 feet, the Air Force purchased an easement on the site and left the bomb there. What was going through their minds as they abandoned responsibility for their errant hydrogen bombs? "So Long, Savannah and Goodbye, Goldsboro?" Isn't a bomb - not just any bomb, but a thermonuclear weapon - deserving of attention? At the very least you would think that they would post warnings and continue to monitor the sites.

Sometime in late July, 1957, records aren't quite clear if it was the night of the 28th or 29th, an Air Force C-124 cargo plane experiencing mechanical difficulties was forced to dump two nukes off the coast of Atlantic City, New Jersey, one 50 miles out, the other 75 miles. The bombs, called Mark 5's, did not explode when they landed in the Atlantic. Once again, the Air Force says that the bombs lacked crucial plutonium capsules. However, they admit that the detonators - a ton of high explosives each - pack enough punch to level a city block. Needless to say, they are still out there - presumably at the mercy of the tides and currents with 43 years worth of saltwater corrosion eating away at them.

"If you thought syringes on the beach were bad...imagine if a nuclear bomb were to wash up. Lots of heavy things wash ashore," warns Stephen Schwartz, a researcher at the Brookings Institution who recently edited "Atomic Audit: The Costs and Consequences of U.S. Nuclear Weapons Since 1940."

Arrivederci Atlantic City? Or is it possible that these bombs might have made it to Manhattan by now?

This simply isn't the Air Force's strongest area of expertise and it wouldn't surprise me if the Air Force knew less about what goes on beneath the waves than Bill Clinton knows about celibacy. The Atlantic sea floor is anything but static. Flowing to depths of 3,000 feet or more, the Gulf Stream steadily washes the entire eastern seaboard. Differences in temperature and salinity result in changes in the density of seawater, producing both up and down welling. And large surface storms can scour continental shelves.

Probably the greatest danger stems from the enormous pressure to which a submerged bomb can be subjected. At sea level average pressure is 14.7 pounds per square inch, but it quickly increases with descent, expanding to 1,338 psi at 3,000 feet, sufficient to implode watertight metal casings.

Under the best of conditions, nuclear devices deteriorate with age (witness our concern with Russia's ill-maintained arsenal). Rolling around nobody-knows-where (the Air Force hasn't bothered to keep track), immersed for decades in corrosive saltwater in what amounts to a pressure cooker - and we are supposed to believe that these bombs are stable?

How much truth there is in the Air Force's assertion that the bombs pose little or no danger is illustrated by a "Broken Arrow" incident that occurred on January 17, 1966. A B-52 bomber collided with a K-135 refueling plane over Palomares, Spain, with four hydrogen bombs aboard. One bomb floated gently down suspended between two parachutes, another bomb sank to the bottom of the Mediterranean, and it is rumored that the high explosives in the other two bombs detonated upon impact, spewing radioactive material into the sea.

On January 21, 1968, another B-52 crashed approximately seven miles southeast of Thule Air Force Base in Greenland. Four bombs were alleged to have burned with the plane, spreading radioactive contamination over icy seas. However, a group of ex-employees of the Arctic facility have obtained classified documents suggesting that one of the thermonuclear hydrogen weapons sank to the seabed and still lies there today. According to an article published in the daily Jyllands-Posten, a prominent Danish newspaper, the lost bomb, serial number 78252, was never reported to Denmark, despite the fact that Denmark is a NATO ally and Greenland is an integral part of the kingdom of Denmark. Needless to say, this is not the way to treat a friend.

The Danish Ritzau news agency released a story reporting that a U.S. submarine filmed images of something resembling a hydrogen bomb in April 1968 while conducting a search for remains from the B-52 wreckage.

Because Denmark had banned nuclear weapons from its soil, the crash has soured relations between our two countries. With State Department officials scheduled to visit Greenland on August 21 to 24, 2001, for talks with Danish officials on whether or not Thule will play a role in the planned National Missile Defense program, the disclosures could not have come at a more inopportune moment. Home to a ballistic missile early-warning radar station, Thule is ideally situated to detect incoming missiles from what the United States labels "states of concern" - countries such as Iran, Iraq, Libya, and North Korea. Greenland's native people have expressed strong opposition to having anything to do with the NMD proposal.

Consequences are still reverberating from what happened on December 5, 1965, when an A-4e Skyhawk rolled off the deck of the aircraft carrier USS Ticonderoga and sank to the bottom, along with a live hydrogen bomb, 80 miles from Okinawa. In 1989, the United States informed Japan that the bomb was leaking radioactive material, no doubt providing ammunition for local protestors who want to kick United States troops off of their island.

It's not like the United States is the only nation that ever lost a nuclear bomb. Cold War nuclear policy expert Stephen Schwartz admonishes that the "Russians had many...accidents, but...they have not been forthcoming about them." How about the other nuclear powers? "I wouldn't be surprised if the British, the French, and the Chinese had their share as well."

Nobody knows for sure exactly how many derelict nuclear bombs are rolling about on ocean floors worldwide. In 1989, Greenpeace estimated the number to be 50. At least 11 of them belong to the United States. Of those, four definitely have live payloads. We know from the Bikini tests that 40 kilotons detonated in a lagoon can render an atoll uninhabitable for decades. When you consider that a single hydrogen bomb packs 10 to 1,000 times as much punch as a fission bomb, it is tantamount to criminal negligence to let such a device endanger an unsuspecting populace. A megaton blast (equivalent to a million tons of TNT) results in severe damage to buildings 10 miles away. The power of the explosion increases in direct proportion to the size of the bomb. Detonate a good sized bomb in shallow water near a major city's shoreline and it's Post Toasties for the inhabitants.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D
 
Re: Sleep well...............

Lost Cause said:
Look there's more! I also found an article on a B-36 jettisoning a nuke by Vancouver Island, BC which was not recovered. These are only the disclosed Broken Arrows, let's not go to the real classified shit!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
How much truth there is in the Air Force's assertion that the bombs pose little or no danger is illustrated by a "Broken Arrow" incident that occurred on January 17, 1966. A B-52 bomber collided with a K-135 refueling plane over Palomares, Spain, with four hydrogen bombs aboard. One bomb floated gently down suspended between two parachutes, another bomb sank to the bottom of the Mediterranean, and it is rumored that the high explosives in the other two bombs detonated upon impact, spewing radioactive material into the sea.

Based on the errors in the reporting of this incident, I have very little faith inthe accuracy of the other events reported in this article.

All four bombs were recovered from the Palomeres Spain incident, two from the Atlanticocean, and two from a Spanish farm -- along with several thousand tons of contaminated soil. NONE of the bombs exploded on impact although the two that impacted on land apparently disintegrated and spread radiation over an area about the size of a football field.

There is a video availble fromt he history channel (Greatest Military Blunders series) that details the search for the fourth bomb and provides some details about the three that were easy to find.

The supposed danger from corrosion and deep sea pressures is nothing more than a scare-mongering spin on these stories, because Fusion Weapons are actually extremely delicate and corrosion and/or crushing damage will work to prevent them from producing an atomic (fusion) reaction.

Lost fusion weapons may present a danger from the conventional explosives -- a few hundred pounds of TNT or the equivalent -- or from the radioactive fission materials intended to trigger the fusion reaction, but every minute they are exposed to corrosion and crushing pressures make them less likely to produce a nuclear explosion.

If they didn't go off when first dropped, it's doubtfull that they could ever be made to go off and virtually impossible for them to go off accidently. There just too many things that have to happen in the proper sequence with nano-second precision for a damaged bomb to achieve a nuclear reaction.
 
phrodeau said:


Any guesses as to what the censored word was?

I'll propose "motherfucking".

Actually in these declassified documents, some things remain classified, in this case the specific weapon identification.
 
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