Double standards

[gauchecritic]

I'm definitely not trying to bash Svenskaflicka here I'd just like an honest answer from any observers or interested parties. In the 'President' thread I found myself a bit disgruntled even hurt by this:

If I was the president of the US, I'd make a law that all male athetes would have to play their games naked, and all players must be 20-40, muscular, well-equipped, have sexy asses, and cute faces.

Imagine watching American Football, where they all throw themselves on top of each other...

How often have we heard about stereotyping or degrading women by referencing or 'talking up' only those women who have small waists, perfect boobs and the best/longest legs?

How often do we hear that the 'average' woman is marginalised or worse, derided if they don't fulfill the supposed male fantasy sterotype?

How many women's self esteem, feelings or in some cases life is/are crushed by being compared unfavourably to movie stars?

Are we operating double standards here?

Is this acceptable?

Very few 'ordinary' blokes are athletes or even work out every day. Is it ok for the majority of the western male population to be made to feel infererior by 'innocent' or 'fun' remarks?

I'd really like to know.

Gauche

 

[destinie21]

I'm definitely not trying to bash Svenskaflicka here I'd just like an honest answer from any observers or interested parties. In the 'President' thread I found myself a bit disgruntled even hurt by this:



How often have we heard about stereotyping or degrading women by referencing or 'talking up' only those women who have small waists, perfect boobs and the best/longest legs?

How often do we hear that the 'average' woman is marginalised or worse, derided if they don't fulfill the supposed male fantasy sterotype?

How many women's self esteem, feelings or in some cases life is/are crushed by being compared unfavourably to movie stars?

Are we operating double standards here?

Is this acceptable?

Very few 'ordinary' blokes are athletes or even work out every day. Is it ok for the majority of the western male population to be made to feel infererior by 'innocent' or 'fun' remarks?

I'd really like to know.

Gauche

When you put it that way no it's not okay, (not anymore okay than 20 something actrsses being paired with 60 something plus actors in movies.) nope none of it is okay.

Of course my bread and butter comes from foisting the image of perfection onto unsuspecting masses so...

 

[SadieRose]

Are we operating double standards here?

Is this acceptable?

Very few 'ordinary' blokes are athletes or even work out every day. Is it ok for the majority of the western male population to be made to feel infererior by 'innocent' or 'fun' remarks?


Gauche

I think that to an extent there are still many examples of double standards, but also that in this day and age people take things far more seriously than they should.

Just think about it. In a world such as Svenskaflicka proposes, we would be inundated day and night with nude bouncing bodies to the point where (just like people working in chocolate factories who get to eat all the rum truffles they can scarf, all day and every day) we start to experience sensory overload.

What the hell would happen then?

Would we go off sex for life? Would the merest sight of a set of tight buns or a floppy cock have us reaching for the barf bags?

Scary idea.

On the plus side, I guess, all the bouncing bosoms classed as suitable for TV during my formative years, have contributed to my growing awareness of an appreciation for the female form as I get older.

Maybe a reverse trend would soften some male approaches to homosexuality.

Which is no bad thing.

xx.Sadie

 

[sweetnpetite]

Yep.

I'm a sexist pig, so I voted for, "Equality is only for women." Which dosn't really make sence, but oh well.

There will always be a double standard. The time when it will be most villified is when it goes *against* the status quo. The time when it will be most accepted is when it goes *with* the status quo.

When women complain about sexism in entertainment, we are always told that we are making a big deal out of nothing, we are over-reacting, that there are real issues that we could be discussing, and that women arent oppresseed anymore- at least not in the USA- land of opportunity. We are told that nobody *made* those women pose half nude and dripping wet for Sport's Illustrated, or punch each other in the mud for a beer commercial and that we basicly are all just jealous of their beauty and success when we should be supporting their right to make any decision they want with there lives.

I say this without bitterness (because I know it will be read into it), just to point it out.

I'm a big fan of the reversed double standard. Maybe men should have to fight for respect and to be taken seriously as women have, rather than just expecting to be entitled to it because it's always been that way.

Let the stoning begin

 

[Guest]

I'm not saying this to be PC, or to earn brownie points with anyone, but this really is how I feel. I'm honest, and I speak my mind, so get this...

I do not go for the stereotypically 'beautiful' man. They aren't real to me, they don't ooze passion and spontaneity. I like (and love) real men. Those who know how to treat a woman good; those who know how to get that woman and keep her.

Yes, there does have to be a sexual attraction, at the very least, but that attraction can take make forms: a warm smile, sparkling eyes, sexy hands, quality of the hugs they give, but most of all, and I really do mean this, it is all about what's inside.

And I most certainly do not put my limits at 40. I have, and do, find men over 40 attractive. I don't think I'd put any age limit on what I think attractiveness is. Ok, maybe 90 is pushing it a bit.

I hate the whole thing about pigeon-holing people, and the comments that are thrown about - usually innocently - about shapes, sizes, ages, weight, and, yes, colour.

I'm not a stereotypically desirable woman. I'm in my 30's, I'm slightly overweight (size 14-16 to those of you in the UK), I have stretch marks, and I can be a moody fucking bitch. I don't do girly talk, I don't get my hair done every week (I cut my own hair) I don't go for beauty treatments, I wear hardly any make-up. But, I am a real woman. WYsIWYG. Without question. And I feel extremely sexy, on top of all that.

Give me a real, genuine guy over a pert 25 year old body builder any day of the week. Three times.

Lou

 

[raphy]

Give me a real, genuine guy over a pert 25 year old body builder any day of the week. Three times.

Lou

Only three? I'd give myself to you any number of times you like, Loulou

Shh, don't tell Whisper.

 

[Guest]

Gauche includes two “how oftens” and a “how many” re. derision of women. That is telling. I only voted for “Now you know how we feel” as it resonated above the others for me.

No, I do not think reverse-sexism is right, but for a while still I hope men can put up with it until more changes amongst us (the battle of the sexes, so to speak). I don’t see this as a real “double standard” as I presume, or at least hope, that the culture will change as women keep coming into their own. Gauche was ‘disgruntled’ and ‘even hurt’, but I cannot believe it has truly affected his sense of self and person.

Men can get far, personally and professionally, with pot bellies, lax musculature, thin hair, craggy faces. It is still much harder for women. I fight this type of judgment of my “self” still, even though I am regularly told I’m gorgeous, whatever (even if ‘for my age’).

For myself, I love beautiful bodies of any sort, but have long had no real interest in young men sexually. I appreciate a handsome man, but if he cannot interest or excite me with his talk and eyes, he gets nowhere fast. I have been attracted to a 70-something man, he was the most charming and intelligent bloke I’d met at the time (only a few years ago). It is rare for a man more than a few years younger than me to interest me as more than a friend.

I love the company of men, I love the masculine, and I do not judge it superficially.

Perdita

 

[SadieRose]

Yay! I have 100 posts! *dances*

...but to get back to the subject in hand.

I'm with Lou here, it's not so much what a man looks like that makes him sexy. Alright, a certain look will always catch my eye, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I could live with that person. They might be totally insufferable.

An older guy can turn my head just as easily as some young, tight-limbed bit of fluff (yep, girls can call guys fluff as well... I don't care for PC one little bit *L*) David Bowie has odd eyes and wonky teeth but he just has to speak and I'm fluttering. *phwoar!*

My own SO is a skinny lat of a guy with incredible sideburns, who can't fix anything that breaks or start the car if it's wet (that's my job) but he's the only man I've ever considered living with. And a great cook to boot! *slurp* After fifteen years, I've no regrets.

We SHOULD be able to take the piss out of people, so long as it's not done in a cruel or totally demeaning way. That's the only way in which we set our own boundaries and stop other people from completely walking over us (without resorting to a big stick and a chair)!

If a guy looks hot, why can't we whistle and make comments. Girls have got hardened to this over the years. Men are soft by comparison!

:mwah:

Sadie.xx

 

[English Lady]

Tatelou..I agree with your post totally....completely and utterly in fact...except I am 24 and a british size 24 *L*

Unique is good...very good.

 

[Black Tulip]

Yes, there does have to be a sexual attraction, at the very least, but that attraction can take make forms: a warm smile, sparkling eyes, sexy hands, quality of the hugs they give, but most of all, and I really do mean this, it is all about what's inside.

Lou

I agree Lou. I do not want a male bimbo, but a man with brains.
It's all in the mind.

 

[A7inchPhildo]

Gouche your a man deal with it!

I don't post in the "President" Thread. Ok so I fall nicely into Svenskaflicka's plan too but some day I won't!

Just the same as I think it is wrong for a woman to waste time contemplating wether or not she is worthy because of age/fitness. It is wrong for a male to ponder the question and allow it to consume his thoughts.

My opinion is not worth mentioning, but hey the majority of the men would rather see 18 year old females even if they can not obtain them. (just look around you on the Internet)

Why should a female want to salivate over a fat balding elderly man? I give more credit to the women who seem to have a broader range of what is desireable.

Still reality is what counts! Both men and women accept different flaws when it comes to picking their mate. Some of us have fewer flaws than others Be your self and never allow the opinions of the multitude to change what you can be from a natural base.

By the way I strongly disagree with this statement:
Very few 'ordinary' blokes are athletes or even work out every day. Is it ok for the majority of the western male population to be made to feel infererior by 'innocent' or 'fun' remarks?

It should have said very few blokes are willing to work out.

The truth hurts! In which case I say it is nobodys problem but their own. Being lazy is not an excuse to change what people find attractive. Does not mean everyone has to be in shape it means if you are not happy with the way your own body looks to others don't blame others, blame ones self.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I'm not a stereotypically desirable woman.
Lou

The hell you're not! I think you sell your sexy self short.



Anyway, I like men of all types who aren't 'stereotypicly good looking' too, but that doesnt' mean that I don't also like the stereotypically good looking ones as well. I thought svenskaflicka's little scenereo (sp) was pretty darn hot! Rather than being President of the US, she should consentrate on being an adult film director, and make movies like what she just described rather than your tipical porn fare. She should also put it on DVD so that we can switch angles and so forth

 

[NoJo]

I'm with Perdita here -- and a lot of the posts from the ladies prove it: Men don't have the pressure to be physically desirable and youthful looking anywhere near as as much as women.

Now, Gauche, if you were talking about the equation of desirability with financial success, then the men would have it worse than the women: Women don't feel unattractive if they're not financially successful.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Women don't feel unattractive if they're not financially successful.

However, they do have to be worried about being perseived as 'gold diggers' if they attempt to date 'above there station'

And this is not limited to the upper-class, by any means.

 

[gauchecritic]

Did I forget to mention that the poll itself was a joke?

Personally I have no problem at all with my self image, just wish I felt this way 30 years ago.

The original post simply reminded me of how I felt as a teenager when the girls couldn't get past how much money a guy had or how good looking he was. (Me having neither)

Fortunately I now have no cares whatsoever about my looks or the amount of money I don't have. Conversly it seems I have become attractive to my exact 'type'.

So another question arises.

My eldest son is as awkward and gangly and anxious as I was when his age. My tallest son apparently doesn't give a damn about the opposite sex. Guess who the girls find most attractive?

So is it all about confidence?

Gauche

 

[pop_54]

Hmmmmmm

Hi my name's Rock, I'm 6ft 4ins and I have muscles everywhere, hell I even have muscles on my shit. When I do one that is, steroids don't create so much in the way of waste bi-products.


On a more serious note, I'm just so fucking relieved to hear all these young girls on this thread claim they are capable of falling for an older guy

Yea I know Joe, guy on guy's Ok too.

 

[Guest]

So another question arises.

My eldest son is as awkward and gangly and anxious as I was when his age. My tallest son apparently doesn't give a damn about the opposite sex. Guess who the girls find most attractive?

So is it all about confidence?

Gauche

Yes! Precisely, that *is* the rub of it.

A confident man is a huge turn on to me. And, that confidence does tend to rub off, and become infectious.

It's all about how a man talks, and even carries himself. If he is articulate and confident (but never cocky) he gets my attention all right!

Lou

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I really need to learn to tell in advance which of all my clever words will potentially upset and hurt the male ego.








...so that I can use it against a few assholes I know.

 

[Black Tulip]

Did I forget to mention that the poll itself was a joke?
Gauche

Really? I never guessed.

So is it all about confidence?

For a large part, yes.

 

[NoJo]

My eldest son is as awkward and gangly and anxious as I was when his age. My tallest son apparently doesn't give a damn about the opposite sex. Guess who the girls find most attractive?

So is it all about confidence?

Gauche

I was confused there for a minute, Gauche. Seriously, Ihad to think which son you meant! But, yeah, you're right with the rhetorical question, I think.

One exception: Louis Theroux plays up to the awkward and gangly image and is considered very attractive.

 

[Guest]

Dear, dear Gauche: I fear the recognition of gaucheness is more elusive than that of irony. I did not know you were joking.

Having two grown sons and having worked among young men for some time, Ive come to believe their gangliness and anxiety protect them. They may have a natural yearning, emotionally and physically, but their bodies and young psyches can keep them safefrom the brutality of adolescence. A confident bloke can be protecting himself too. As with my two boys I presume these two of yours are each to each unique.

I've learned late how we save ourselves from ourselves; of course we resented it when we were blind and overwrought about life and love. I think I'm in my last prime, or near to last, and only recall the pain of youth as if it were someone else's tale.

best to all your sons, Perdita

 

[Guest]

One exception: Louis Theroux plays up to the awkward and gangly image and is considered very attractive.

Joe! You're the first person to mention this guy. He had a short-lived documentary-like series on a cable channel here and I loved his personality and humour. Too young, but just my 'type'.

P.

 

[NoJo]

I have two sons. Like with me and my older brother, the older one is more confident and popular with girls as a result.

Interesting, Gauche that in your case the older one is less confident. I think that's probably unusual.

 

[NoJo]

P,

Lois Theroux is the son of the writer Paul Theroux. He's smart. He uses the "give them enough rope" technique of interviewing, always remaining polite, almost a bit of an idiot.

 

[Guest]

He uses the "give them enough rope" technique of interviewing, always remaining polite, almost a bit of an idiot.

Yes, he does that well. He interviewed evangelicals, rodeo riders, all sorts of odd American types. Oh, and he did a doc. on porn-movie makers and did poses. Palest white dude I've ever seen. P.