Double Blind Challenge

greenmountaineer

Literotica Guru
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Posts
2,442
A good opportunity to hone some of those poetic and critic skills:

Take an early draft of a poem or an old one with flaws in it and send it to me.

I'll post it anonymously for 48 hours more or less to enable others to critique it before posting another submission for critique. Critiques are encouraged but not required. Posters may also agree or disagree with other posters, thus provoking thought and possibly more comments. The length of the challenge therefore depends on the level of interest according to the number of submissions.

The submitting poets will be able to get feedback and then send me their revision no later than a specified date at which point I'll post all of them together, again anonymously, so that people can guess at authorship which will thereafter soon be disclosed, completing the challenge. If a poet doesn't send a revision, I'll assume no change was made, and I will re-post the original.

We've had a pretty good run of challenges during the last year, starting, as I recall, with Harry's "Anything But Spring" challenge. Let's see if we can keep it going. If you intend to participate, send me a pm. I'd like to maintain anonymity from start to finish. I'll post a headcount on April 1st (April Fool's Day, a mere coincidence) when the challenge formally begins.
 
We now have 6 poets interesting in submitting a draft of their work for feedback.

Important: You do not have to submit a poem in order to provide feedback. In fact, the more feedback there is the better the challenge will be.

I'll post the first poem tomorrow anonymously as previously stated. Note to submitters: If you're looking specific feedback, feel free to say so.

Poems will be posted one at a time for approximately 48 hours to generate sufficient feedback. This should take about 2 weeks, given the number of entrants. That said, if at any time someone wants to add a poem to the mix, that's not a problem. Just send a pm to me.

If this challenge works, there may be a few take aways for us to become better writers.
 
Poem #1 Posted for feedback

Ahab

Call me Levi, short for Leviathan
Commander of Lucifer's Legions
Prince of the Southern Ocean
Destroyer of Kraken

Cast from Gaia's warmth
plunged into this cold and briny sea
to forever delve its fathomless depths
never again to bask in the sun.

Immersed within this aqueous firmament
the cradle of life and death
from surface to deepest abyss
such was our dominion.

Gliding weightless through the water
rising to grab a breath of air before
diving, till under water's weight
lungs collapse, then deeper still.

Each breath feeding the flame
that burned within each of us
preserving our light in the dark
with Lucifer burning brightest

Enveloped within ocean's din
the songs of loved ones far and near
the crash of wave on distant shores
sorting all to find our savage prey.

The tentacled horde, great and small,
from common cuttlefish to great Kraken
such were the source of our strength
but also our mortal enemy.

And so we'd forage, our task
to limit their unfettered increase
and paramount to keep the Kraken
forever in the deepest trenches.

Though in the end, was not squid
but land based man ape that
filled the air with noxious vapours
turning the sweet sea to vinegar.

Yet such is my condition,
not my tale for now I must
speak of a time when fate
was balanced with hope
 
Poem #1
Ahab

It seems redundant to mention Kraken three times.

Gliding weightless through the water
rising to grab a breath of air before
diving, till under water's weight
lungs collapse, then deeper still.


This is the only stanza utilizing commas. Why? To maintain quatrains throughout? For the sake of consistency?

Try adding a word, maintain quatrain and be even more consistent by not suddenly interrupting train of thought with commas.

Gliding weightless through the water
rising to grab a breath of air before diving
till under water's weight do lungs collapse
then deeper still.


The single comma in the 1st line of the 1st stanza is more appropriate.
 
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There is some nice descriptive writing in this poem, but I have three criticisms:

1. There seems to be a somewhat indiscriminate mixing of different myths and legends, which I found disconcerting.

2. In the penultimate stanza, it gets preachy. The whole "humans are toxic vermin" thing is overdone, IMO.

3. Yet such is my condition,
not my tale for now I must
speak of a time when fate
was balanced with hope


...what does this mean? In the final stanza I expect a punch line of sorts, which should provide an ordering principle for what has gone before. When I arrived at this stanza, I was just plain confused.
 
My first reaction was "Oh, a ballad." I happen to like ballads, belieiving if there were more, poetry appreciation would be more popular than it is. While it doesn't have the rhyme and meter often associated with ballads, it does have the characteristic story telling narrrative and the diction is quite good IMO.

Unlike Mag, I don't have a problem with repeating "Kraken," if indeed that was to be the focus of the poem. I wasn't sure, since the last two quatrains went off in a different direction the way I read them.

I can associate the unspoken "Moby Dick" with with allegory of Kraken, derived from Norse mythology, representing determination, perhaps even obsession, remembering the iconic Captain Aha, but I'm not sure how "Commander of Lucifer's Legions" fits. I saw no loop back later, so it felt like alliteration that wasn't necessary.

As the challenge coordinator, I have the advantage of knowing that this is part of something larger. Consequently, the last 2 stanzas, although they appear to steer off course(pardon the pun) do leave me curious to know what's coming next.
 
Unlike Mag, I don't have a problem with repeating "Kraken," if indeed that was to be the focus of the poem. I wasn't sure, since the last two quatrains went off in a different direction the way I read them.

It's not so much a problem, but more of an opportunity to replace one or two of those Krakens with something else to that is cause for imagination to conjure up associations.

Like tentacle horde for example. That gets the imagination working. I see schools of silhouetted tentacled albeit generic creatures swarming underwater towards a destination in the darkness ahead.
 
There is so much to like in this poem.......you just know there's a "but" coming...but, for me it's a bit over the top. Verses like ......

"Each breath feeding the flame
that burned within each of us
preserving our light in the dark
with Lucifer burning brightest " .....add little if anything to the narrative on the other hand I like the message carried by the poem.

I wish it was a little more direct, less multi-angled, jumping from a Moby Dick reference in the title to the diet of Cetaceans to an apparent tirade against man's lack of environmental care. There are at least two, perhaps three, poems rolled into one slightly unfocussed one.

Like GM, as I began reading I was expecting a ballad, perhaps because of the rather formal strophe format. All in all an interesting poem with great potential, just needs some fine tuning.
 
Poem #2 posted for feedback

summer storm

such viscosity
living liquid melts against the walls
of life
gravity pulls
it trickles a trail
down
and nestles wet and beautiful
on the palm of my hand

soft moans and whispers
entreat the beast in me
as she demands more
slide my whispering over skin raised to life,
swells, that rival an ocean squall
forked lightning rends the air
I feel the rain, eyes closed
breath held I dive in to taste
fresh water salted in life
lap from the valley's stream
savour it, before it is lost
in the storm

I have never felt so much heat, as that which beats
a drummers thump,
a heart beat
bumpbump, bumpbump

each flash of light
and touch of liquid
drives me toward the edge

I want to kneel naked in the sand
where the ocean meets the land
let the rain wash away
the last of the day
cleanse me
let me feel
take me into your depth
hold me there suspended in sensation
and take it all
 
Poem #2
summer storm

swells, that rival an ocean squall

I think the comma is best removed.

swells that rival an ocean squall

This is going to sound weird coming from a rhyme fanatic, but I don't like the last stanza suddenly breaking out in rhyme. It's like a major shift from chaos to structured order. Or is that ordered structure?

Either strip the rhymes out for total chaos or work in some rhyming before hand so the transition is more subtle.

living liquid melts against the walls

swells that rival ocean squalls


---

gravitational pull

and nestles wet and beautiful
 
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A good opportunity to hone some of those poetic and critic skills:

Take an early draft of a poem or an old one with flaws in it and send it to me.

I'll post it anonymously for 48 hours more or less to enable others to critique it before posting another submission for critique. Critiques are encouraged but not required. Posters may also agree or disagree with other posters, thus provoking thought and possibly more comments. The length of the challenge therefore depends on the level of interest according to the number of submissions.

The submitting poets will be able to get feedback and then send me their revision no later than a specified date at which point I'll post all of them together, again anonymously, so that people can guess at authorship which will thereafter soon be disclosed, completing the challenge. If a poet doesn't send a revision, I'll assume no change was made, and I will re-post the original.

We've had a pretty good run of challenges during the last year, starting, as I recall, with Harry's "Anything But Spring" challenge. Let's see if we can keep it going. If you intend to participate, send me a pm. I'd like to maintain anonymity from start to finish. I'll post a headcount on April 1st (April Fool's Day, a mere coincidence) when the challenge formally begins.

I think this could even go a step further if participants submitted what they thought was their best work, operating with the assumption that it is already flawless ...... only to perhaps discover not so much in the eyes of others.

I don't think anyone here would end up with a shattered ego. We're not that full of ourselves like others in other forums that we may or may not attend.

http://gfy.com/images/smilies/2twocents.gif
 
Regarding #2 ---

It's too early to guess authorship, right? I have a pretty good idea.

In stanza three, I find the repetition of "beat" and "beats" mildly annoying. This is probably just a matter of taste. The final line, "and take it all", sounds like an erotica cliche, as does "the beast in me" in stanza two. That being said, I like the weather and ocean imagery.
 
summer storm

such viscosity
living liquid melts against the walls
of life
gravity pulls
it trickles a trail
down
and nestles wet and beautiful
on the palm of my hand

soft moans and whispers
entreat the beast in me
as she demands more
slide my whispering over skin raised to life,
swells, that rival an ocean squall
forked lightning rends the air
I feel the rain, eyes closed
breath held I dive in to taste
fresh water salted in life
lap from the valley's stream
savour it, before it is lost
in the storm

I have never felt so much heat, as that which beats
a drummers thump,
a heart beat
bumpbump, bumpbump

each flash of light
and touch of liquid
drives me toward the edge

I want to kneel naked in the sand
where the ocean meets the land
let the rain wash away
the last of the day
cleanse me
let me feel
take me into your depth
hold me there suspended in sensation
and take it all

I enjoy this poem a lot! but agree with Mags about a disconnect between the much more ordered rhymes in the last stanza compared to their lack in rest of the poem. Although there is a bit of a foreshadowing (bolded) of rhymes to come (cum?)

And also agree very much with Mags that the comma after 'swells' interrupts where it has no business to do so.

The following shall, of course, be prefaced with IMHO:

- 'of life' in the first stanza doesn't add anything to my ear; it rather detracts from the ....ummm... gushing flow - I love the way that stanza ends

- on the other hand, I might add a comma here: 'breath held, I dive in to taste'

- and I would try this:

breath held, I dive in to taste
fresh water salted
lap from the valley's stream
savour before it is lost
in the storm

I also deleted the first 'it' in the next to last line above, which I felt interrupts and kind of forms a stutter with the second 'it'; the first is already implied, the second is necessary.

- and next, I have trimmed some unnecessary "the's"; I also feel very ambivalent about 'let me feel' - I don't think it's necessary, as the later 'hold me suspended in sensation' is much more powerful and says it all

I would kneel naked in the sand
where ocean meets land
let rain wash away
the last of the day
cleanse me
take me into your depth
hold me suspended in sensation
and take it all


Overall, I think it's very close to something very visceral. I even have a guess of who wrote it, but shall withhold that for now.
 
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I enjoy this poem a lot! but agree with Mags about a disconnect between the much more ordered rhymes in the last stanza compared to their lack in rest of the poem. Although there is a bit of a foreshadowing (bolded) of rhymes to come (cum?)

.

Given that rain or water is such a chaotic elemental thing, I would steer the poem clear of any rhyme or structure or sense of solidity.

Upon reading again, the line

hold me there suspended in sensation

is powerful like Mer says, but also because it melds into the words

hold me there in suspension

as in a liquid suspension.

- and next, I have trimmed some unnecessary "the's"; I also feel very ambivalent about 'let me feel' - I don't think it's necessary, as the later 'hold me suspended in sensation' is much more powerful and says it all
 
Last edited:
summer storm

such viscosity
living liquid melts against the walls
of life
gravity pulls
it trickles a trail
down
and nestles wet and beautiful
on the palm of my hand

soft moans and whispers
entreat the beast in me
as she demands more
slide my whispering over skin raised to life,
swells, that rival an ocean squall
forked lightning rends the air
I feel the rain, eyes closed
breath held I dive in to taste
fresh water salted in life
lap from the valley's stream
savour it, before it is lost
in the storm

I have never felt so much heat, as that which beats
a drummers thump,
a heart beat
bumpbump, bumpbump

each flash of light
and touch of liquid
drives me toward the edge

I want to kneel naked in the sand
where the ocean meets the land
let the rain wash away
the last of the day
cleanse me
let me feel
take me into your depth
hold me there suspended in sensation
and take it all


I can’t find much, if anything, to whine about here. I like the choice of words, even the odd rhyming here and there doesn’t seem out of place to me. The slightly eccentric punctuation distracts me a bit but that’s tiny niggle. I’ve got a good idea whose this is too.
 
summer storm

soft moans and whispers
entreat the beast in me
as she demands more
slide my whispering over skin raised to life,
swells, that rival an ocean squall
forked lightning rends the air
I feel the rain, eyes closed
breath held I dive in to taste
fresh water salted in life
lap from the valley's stream
savour it, before it is lost
in the storm

I think "beast" can be lost in this piece. There's nothing else that references anything beastly. I do like the entreating, and I wonder if this would work as a first line:

soft whispers and moans entreat me​

I've also switched around whispers and moans. It just sounds better to me in that order.

I'd drop the comma after 'life' and 'swells'. I second the nomination for a comma after 'breath held'.

I have never felt so much heat, as that which beats
a drummers thump,
a heart beat
bumpbump, bumpbump

This stanza reads a bit awkwardly for me, so I monkeyed with it a bit and came up with this:
I have never felt such heat
the pulse of a heart
a drummer's beat
bumpbump bumpbump​

"Such" reads better, to me, than "too much" in the first line, generally. Messed a bit with the rhyme scheme, because I liked the heat/beat rhyme, but wanted to suggest an alternative to the repeated use of 'beat'.

In the original, I'd drop the comma after thump.

I want to kneel naked in the sand
where the ocean meets the land
let the rain wash away
the last of the day
cleanse me
let me feel
take me into your depth
hold me there suspended in sensation
and take it all

I want to break this one up.

I want to kneel naked in the sand
where ocean meets the land
let the rain wash away
the last of the day
cleanse me

I like this on its own, and I dropped one 'the' from the second line, so that it descends in steps. A bit of a washing away. It just appeals to me.

let me feel
take me into your depth
hold me there suspended in sensation
and take it all

I'd drop the 'there' and change 'depth' to 'depths'.
 
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Ahab

Call me Levi, short for Leviathan
Commander of Lucifer's Legions
Prince of the Southern Ocean
Destroyer of Kraken

Cast from Gaia's warmth
plunged into this cold and briny sea
to forever delve its fathomless depths
never again to bask in the sun.

Immersed within this aqueous firmament
the cradle of life and death
from surface to deepest abyss
such was our dominion.

Gliding weightless through the water
rising to grab a breath of air before
diving, till under water's weight
lungs collapse, then deeper still.

Each breath feeding the flame
that burned within each of us
preserving our light in the dark
with Lucifer burning brightest

Enveloped within ocean's din
the songs of loved ones far and near
the crash of wave on distant shores
sorting all to find our savage prey.

The tentacled horde, great and small,
from common cuttlefish to great Kraken
such were the source of our strength
but also our mortal enemy.

And so we'd forage, our task
to limit their unfettered increase
and paramount to keep the Kraken
forever in the deepest trenches.

Though in the end, was not squid
but land based man ape that
filled the air with noxious vapours
turning the sweet sea to vinegar.

Yet such is my condition,
not my tale for now I must
speak of a time when fate
was balanced with hope
Ahab

Call me Levi, short for Leviathan
Commander of Lucifer's Legions
Prince of the Southern Ocean
Destroyer of Kraken

Cast from Gaia's warmth
plunged into this cold and briny sea
to forever delve its fathomless depths
never again to bask in the sun.


Your title held some confusion for me given the context of the piece, but then I concluded it alluded more to the monomaniacal nature of the beast rather than my first impression it was alluding to Captain Ahab.

Do you need all of L1? I think Call me Levi OR Call me Leviathon would both work as well, my preference being to use Leviathon, as the whole 'short for' bit detracts from the power in the wording. The listing is powerful and imposes that sense of monomania. I also get why you used capitals for listing the titles to call the beast, but not the capital used in Cast, L1 V2. The phrasing is ongoing. Unless you subtly alter the wording of V2. Simply, as it currently reads, the Cast ought not be capitalised. Hmmn, re-reading through, I see you used caps to start each verse so that explains that. However, it was something that tripped me up as a reader, since it looks like a continuation of the listing. Just something to bear in mind.

The language relies on overblown rhetoric, but given the oratory voice of the narrator I find that appropriate.

Call me Leviathon
Commander of Legions
Prince of the Southern Ocean
Destroyer of Kraken

Cast from Gaia's warmth
plunged into this cold and briny sea
to forever delve its fathomless depths
never again to bask in the sun.

Immersed within this aqueous firmament
the cradle of life and death
from surface to deepest abyss
such was our dominion.


Okay, the voice is consistent and I feel I'm being fed the introduction of a story I'm willing to listen to.

Gliding weightless through the water
rising to grab a breath of air before
diving, till under water's weight
lungs collapse, then deeper still.


Right, sense of tension, pressure, like the 'then deeper still.'

Each breath feeding the flame
that burned within each of us
preserving our light in the dark
with Lucifer burning brightest


You ended the previous verse with a period, which makes this verse grammatically out of sorts: you could drop the period after 'still', or, preferably, change 'feeding' to 'fed' for continuity.

Enveloped within ocean's din
the songs of loved ones far and near
the crash of wave on distant shores
sorting all to find our savage prey.


Liking 'savage prey' but by now I'm kind of wanting this to get a move on. My opinions only, someone else might have an entirely different sense of it all.

The tentacled horde, great and small,
from common cuttlefish to great Kraken
such were the source of our strength
but also our mortal enemy.

And so we'd forage, our task
to limit their unfettered increase
and paramount to keep the Kraken
forever in the deepest trenches.


I think you could combine these two verses into one, stronger, hit. It's starting to lose me here to be honest. If this was the orator, by now I'd be glancing at my watch and looking for an escape route in case.

Though in the end, was not squid
but land based man ape that
filled the air with noxious vapours
turning the sweet sea to vinegar.


The voice has lost its fire-in-the-belly come-listen vibe and has started to feel a bit prim and preachy, reminding me of a fire-and-brimstone priest flinging scalding words at his congregation then running out of steam half way through, wiping the sweat from his brow and leaving his audience a bit confused.

Yet such is my condition,
not my tale for now I must
speak of a time when fate
was balanced with hope


Hmmn. This ending is weak when compared to how the piece started off. I feel the write would benefit from being cut back; concentrate on the whole whale v kraken vibe to make it a stronger poem. If you must introduce the whole man-poisoning-our habitat theme, then maybe allude to it as another war to be won when ape takes to water or some such conceit. I feel you allowed this whole powerful monomaniacal voice to get diluted by tepid shallows.

Just my observations as one reader. Thanks to whomever put their poem up for feedback. :rose:
 
summer storm

such viscosity
living liquid melts against the walls
of life
gravity pulls
it trickles a trail
down
and nestles wet and beautiful
on the palm of my hand


Wouldn't change a thing. Has the author's voice stamped clearly across every word and image. Really liking the subtlety of sound running throughout.

soft moans and whispers
entreat the beast in me
as she demands more
slide my whispering over skin raised to life,
swells, that rival an ocean squall
forked lightning rends the air
I feel the rain, eyes closed
breath held I dive in to taste
fresh water salted in life
lap from the valley's stream
savour it, before it is lost
in the storm


I have no problem with the beauty/beast tension thing. I do, however, find I stumble a bit with the differences between entreat and demand. It is the fluidity implied within the water, the 'soft' moans, and 'whispers' that don't sit right with 'demands' to my senses. And, by the way, author (I know whose this is as well) 'whisper/whispering' needs looking at: maybe something more like 'whimpers' to replace that first 'whispers'. A whimper is (in a beastly scenario) as likely to be a seductive entreaty to a beast as a whisper. IMHO :halo: Perhaps exchange demands more for pleads more or pleads ''more'', to keep a sound-link with 'entreats'?

soft moans and whimpers
entreat the beast in me
as she pleads more

anyway, ditto about the comma following 'swells'; having said that, I like how the comma makes the line sound – emphasising the rolling fluidity of the word in one's mouth. You have to either leave that one up to reader-interpretation or drop 'that rival an ocean squall' to the next line. In this instance, it's my opinion that you can safely leave it up to the diversity of readership to take that sensation on board. Fingers crossed, anyway.

I have never felt so much heat, as that which beats
a drummers thump,
a heart beat
bumpbump, bumpbump


There's a change of pace here, driven by the rapid beat of heart. The author's attempting to tattoo the beat into the reader's mind. Do you need ' heart beat'? Don't think so. It's surely implied as the pulsing, and pulse is the reflection of heartbeat. Nor does it require that comma after 'heat', but an apostrophe IS needed in drummer's. :)

I've never felt so much heat
as that which beats a drummer's thump
bumpbump, bumpbump


each flash of light
and touch of liquid
drives me toward the edge


Here, I'd suggest looking at exchanging 'the edge' to 'her edge', and possibly 'drives me to her edge'.

I want to kneel naked in the sand
where the ocean meets the land
let the rain wash away
the last of the day
cleanse me
let me feel
take me into your depth
hold me there suspended in sensation
and take it all


I don't have a problem with how the pace changes yet again, this time driven by sound over rhythm but I would, however, drop 'let me feel, tinker about with those final lines something like this:

I want to kneel naked in the sand
where the ocean meets the land
feel the rain cleanse
the last of day from me
as you take me to your depths
hold me
suspended in sensation
take it all


Overall I love this piece. There's a consistent fluidity/solidity running throughout and eroticism over porn. Nice writing.
 
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I think this could even go a step further if participants submitted what they thought was their best work, operating with the assumption that it is already flawless ...... only to perhaps discover not so much in the eyes of others.

I don't think anyone here would end up with a shattered ego. We're not that full of ourselves like others in other forums that we may or may not attend.

http://gfy.com/images/smilies/2twocents.gif

Interesting concept. Maybe a future challenge. Although none come to mind right now, I recall several times reading how new poems by then unknown but later famous poets were often panned by the critics.
 
OK, sounds therapeutic. Count me in.
therapeutic was not my first descriptive thought
Headcount is only 5 thus far. If there are procastinators out there, let me know.
Local 314
Ahab

Call me Levi, short for Leviathan
Commander of Lucifer's Legions
Prince of the Southern Ocean
Destroyer of Kraken
love this 1st stanza, Levi is a kick ass guy cant wait to meet him
Cast from Gaia's warmth
plunged into this cold and briny sea
to forever delve its fathomless depths
never again to bask in the sun.

Immersed within this aqueous firmament I don't like aqueous, would suggest 'Liquefied' instead
the cradle of life and death
from surface to deepest abyss
such was our dominion.

Gliding weightless through the water
rising to grab a breath of air before
diving, till under water's weight Until, 'til
lungs collapse, then deeper still.,

Each breath feeding the flame
that burned within each of us
preserving our light in the dark
with Lucifer burning brightest

Enveloped within ocean's din
the songs of loved ones far and near
the crash of wave on distant shores
sorting all to find our savage prey.

The tentacled horde, great and small,
from common cuttlefish to great Kraken
such were the source of our strength
but also our mortal enemy.

And so we'd forage, our task
to limit their unfettered increase
and paramount to keep the Kraken
forever in the deepest trenches.

Though in the end, was not squid
but land based man ape that
filled the air with noxious vapours
turning the sweet sea to vinegar.

Yet such is my condition,
not my tale
for now I must Eh?
speak of a time when fate
was balanced with hope

So Levi ended up with the vapours? brave soul to use this for challenge *sigh* commenting not my stick all unfocused seeking to grandiosely expound on some unknown event
 
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summer storm

such viscosity <<< strange way to start,, don't know if I like it
living liquid melts against the walls
of life
gravity pulls
it trickles a trail << yep, tods
down
and nestles wet and beautiful
on the palm of my hand

soft moans and whispers
entreat the beast in me
as she demands more
slide my whispering over skin raised to life,
swells, that rival an ocean squall
forked lightning rends the air
I feel the rain, eyes closed
breath held I dive in to taste
fresh water salted in life
lap from the valley's stream
savour it, before it is lost
in the storm

I have never felt so much heat, as that which beats
a drummers thump,
a heart beat
bumpbump, bumpbump Don't do that, lol no sfx, try a word or words creating/suggesting the sound

each flash of light
and touch of liquid
drives me toward the edge

I want to kneel naked in the sand
where the ocean meets the land
let the rain wash away
the last of the day
Nom!
cleanse me
let me feel
take me into your depth
hold me there suspended in sensation
and take it all

.. has a strong feel of Tods to me
 
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