Double 0-7

[CharleyH]

I love spies and spy films, maybe not James Bond, but ...

Last night (Taking off on Ami's movie threads) I watched Breach The film was slow moving, which is something I liked about it, but fascinating. For those who have not seen it, it's a story about Robert Hanssen (sorry for the wiki).

I wanted to stop watching it a couple of times because I was yawning, yet it was engaging somehow, more real (not real, though) than most spy flicks.

There's a certain allure and excitement in the concept of "SPY" and yet after this film I was left with a sense of 'how could anyone live with themselves?' I had that feeling because I can't imagine having to walk around anxiety-ridden about who was also spying on me ... worried about getting caught or killed, or how many people I was actually betraying or killing. The loneliness of the lifestyle would be too much for me to handle. The film also had me thinking that patriotism wasn't much more than being a team player sometimes, but that's an aside (and more indepth a thought than I am presenting).

What intrigued me were the reasons that the film presented for this great American betrayal by Hanssen, and those reasons didn't seem much different than that of the disgruntled postal worker or a serial killer blaming their parents.

I guess the question I want to get at is why do we idealize spies in fiction when in reality we detest them so much that we'd put them to death (not that Hanssen was in reality)?

 

[cloudy]

James Bond is probably much of the reason that spies are fascinating to a lot of people.

He's surrounded by beautiful women, always has the coolest car, has all those techno toys/weapons to play with, and gets to travel the world in a style only a few people get to do. What's not to idolize?

That it isn't that way in reality (I am assuming) doesn't matter. It's the way that books and films have depicted it to be. By it's very nature, the spy business remains an unknown to most, so it can be whatever we imagine it to be, and our collective imagination makes it into a glamorous business.

 

[slyc_willie]

I think it's the whole intricacy of the 'spy business.' Being privy to what's REALLY going on, knowing what others don't know, or only guess at. We all love it when we know a secret that eludes others, don't we?

And, by the very fact that spies hold secrets, that makes them dangerous. And being viewed as dangerous is very attractive to the male ego (I can't speak for women, but I suspect much the same thing). Add to that their military training, which makes them physically formidable (at least to a point), and you have the picture of someone who is smart, deadly, tricky, and suave.

What's not to love?

And, by the same token, such a person is intimidating to the layman. We sure would like to be the guy in the trenchcoat and dark glasses, but we sure as hell wouldn't want to find him standing on the street below our window.

 

[gauchecritic]

You've no doubt seen 'The Conversation' with Gene Hackman, which is what I always associate with spying: Generally dull but intricate.

When he apparently reprised that role in 'Enemy of the State' the most fascinating parts in that film were about Gene Hackman's "spyness"

In much the same manner as 'Ipcress Files', 'Funeral in Berlin' or 'Billion Dollar Brain' or even 'Get Carter' (Micheal Cain) to a certain extent even 'The Italian Job' and particularly in the Brit series 'Callan' (Edward Woodward.. wood... would) it was always the 'spyness' that caught me up.

 

[Guest]

Breach was intriging because it was true. It never really answered why he did it. It apparently wasn't for money or politics - the two most common reasons. It appears he wanted to prove to his colleagues that he was smarter then they.

The Falcon and the Snowman is an interesting true life story too.

James Bond stories were the fantasies of a real intelligence officer, written in the heat of the day, in a vodka induced cloud after a three martini lunch, and before dinner, while his family relaxed on the Jamaican beaches. Something, apparently, to wile away the time on vacation with nice fantasies. Thinking back on them, how did Dr. No, or Blofeld ever get the vast sums of money those hideouts would have required?

I've been reliably told that "The Company" is the best protrayal of what real life intelligence is like. It will be a mini-series later this summer, but the book is very readable.

 

[slyc_willie]

The Falcon and the Snowman is an interesting true life story too.


I've been reliably told that "The Company" is the best protrayal of what real life intelligence is like. It will be a mini-series later this summer, but the book is very readable.

I'm looking out for that one.

Aside from the whole nanotech angle, "Jake 2.0" was a pretty good look at espionage. The show delved as much into the sci-fi realm as they did the internal workings of an intelligence agency and how much politics plays into it. Morality was often addressed, as well as the lack thereof.

 

[gauchecritic]

I forget, what's that film with Robert Redford. When he goes to lunch and everyone in his office has been killed?

 

[slyc_willie]

I forget, what's that film with Robert Redford. When he goes to lunch and everyone in his office has been killed?

That was 'Spy Game.'

Came out around 2000-2001, I think. Brad Pitt was in it, too. Pretty good film.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I forget, what's that film with Robert Redford. When he goes to lunch and everyone in his office has been killed?

That doesn't sound familiar to me at all...

 

[Guest]

I forget, what's that film with Robert Redford. When he goes to lunch and everyone in his office has been killed?

It was Three Days of the Condor , wasn't it?

 

[slyc_willie]

It was Three Days of the Condor , wasn't it?

Ya know, you're right . . .

I should have been tipped off, since I didn't remember a bunch of dead colleagues from 'Spy Game.'

 

[gauchecritic]

Yep, spy Game I enjoyed, the intricacies again which did have Bradd Pitt. Three Days of the Condor, was the one I was thinking of. The ordinaryness of the spy business.

 

[slyc_willie]

Day of the Jackal was pretty good, too, with Stephen Rea. NOT to be confused with that flash-or-trash 'Jackal' with Bruce Willis and Richard Gere (doing a God-awful Irish accent).

 

[Grushenka]

I'm surprised no one, especially a Brit, has mentioned John Le Carre. No glamour, no gadgets. One of his best known protagonists, George Smiley, has been called a Chekhovian spy. Not a Smiley book, but I think "The Spy Who Came in from the Cold" is as popular a spy novel as one might name, not to mention brilliantly written.

Alas, no one's mentioned the voyeuristic appeal of spying. Perhaps too obvious?

And, it's all about betrayal. To king and/or country, of colleagues, friends, lovers, etc.

The Cold War, voyeurism and betrayal--what more could a storyteller want.

 

[snake307]

I think the reason we like to spy stories

Is in the stories we see from Hollywood, the hero is doing the "right thing" while the stories we read from the NY Times, the focus of the story is trying to destroy the world, or invade our privacy, or whatever evil is going on this week.

 

[neonlyte]

I'm surprised no one, especially a Brit, has mentioned John Le Carre. No glamour, no gadgets. One of his best known protagonists, George Smiley, has been called a Chekhovian spy. Not a Smiley book, but I think "The Spy Who Came in from the Cold" is as popular a spy novel as one might name, not to mention brilliantly written.

Alas, no one's mentioned the voyeuristic appeal of spying. Perhaps too obvious?

And, it's all about betrayal. To king and/or country, of colleagues, friends, lovers, etc.

The Cold War, voyeurism and betrayal--what more could a storyteller want.

Le Carre's books are superb and some of the work translated excellently both to film and TV series though I watched Tinked Tailor Soldier Spy recently on dvd and was surprised how dated it appeared. Of all his books, I think I've enjoyed The Little Drummer Girl the most, a gripping story of political and personal betrayal.

 

[jomar]

The Good Shepard with Matt damon, Angelina Jolie and Robert Di Niro was a decent low key spy movie (CIA).

 

[Grushenka]

Le Carre's books are superb and some of the work translated excellently both to film and TV series though I watched Tinked Tailor Soldier Spy recently on dvd and was surprised how dated it appeared. Of all his books, I think I've enjoyed The Little Drummer Girl the most, a gripping story of political and personal betrayal.

Interesting. I wonder if the the books would seem dated too. I think not, though I do not plan to reread Le Carre. Then again, I'd like to see what I think now of Alec Guiness and Richard Burton in their grim roles.

 

[neonlyte]

Interesting. I wonder if the the books would seem dated too. I think not, though I do not plan to reread Le Carre. Then again, I'd like to see what I think now of Alec Guiness and Richard Burton in their grim roles.

Alec Guinness de Cuffe had the unique quality of agelessness. Peerless in his generation. It was the style of filming and production, rather than the acting, that struck me as dated. John Le Carre has an apartment across the river from me near the old Lisbon main market. Scenes from Tinker Tailor were filmed in an old monastry in the Arrabbida Mountains just south of Lisbon, I assume Le Carre had a hand in the decision making process, when it came to the TV series.

 

[Grushenka]

Alec Guinness de Cuffe had the unique quality of agelessness. Peerless in his generation. It was the style of filming and production, rather than the acting, that struck me as dated.

Yes, I agree about Guinness; I do still watch his earlier work (Kind Hearts & Coronets a fave). You've assuaged my anxiety.

 

[kendo1]

Anyone remember Bird of Prey with Richard Griffiths? BBC drama in the early 80's.

http://www.screenonline.org.uk/tv/id/1044237/index.html

 

[CharleyH]

You've no doubt seen 'The Conversation' with Gene Hackman, which is what I always associate with spying: Generally dull but intricate.

When he apparently reprised that role in 'Enemy of the State' the most fascinating parts in that film were about Gene Hackman's "spyness"

In much the same manner as 'Ipcress Files', 'Funeral in Berlin' or 'Billion Dollar Brain' or even 'Get Carter' (Micheal Cain) to a certain extent even 'The Italian Job' and particularly in the Brit series 'Callan' (Edward Woodward.. wood... would) it was always the 'spyness' that caught me up.

You know? I am trying to think of THE best spy film, and I am sure Gene Hackman is in it.

I was curious also ... as writers? How might we write our "PERFECT" spy protagonist? Personally, I will have to think on this (busy - sorry) but what attributes real or imagined make a spy protag we'd all just die (or switch sides) to read about, fantasize about or anything in between?

 

[kendo1]

You know? I am trying to think of THE best spy film, and I am sure Gene Hackman is in it.

I was curious also ... as writers? How might we write our "PERFECT" spy protagonist? Personally, I will have to think on this (busy - sorry) but what attributes real or imagined make a spy protag we'd all just die (or switch sides) to read about, fantasize about or anything in between?

Boobies. Big Boobies.