Don't take ratings to heart

[Swilly]

It's nice to have your stories highly rated. You get that awesome red H, and possibly positioning that will get you more reads. The reality, however, is that the rating is not always a reliable indicator of how good a story is. For starters, what is a good story? Some might judge how well written and thought out a story is. Others may judge it entirely on how turned on they get while reading it. Others still may judge it on how much they like or dislike a character or ending. Of course, pick one of the incendiary categories like LW, and anything can happen.

My FAWC 4 submission illustrates this perfectly. When the story was originally published, it flirted with winning the FAWC, and ended up with a 4.6 rating. After the FAWC, the story was removed (because I didn't follow instructions), and I ended up reposting it with a different ending. I removed a single paragraph and added several new ones, modifying the ending from a HEA to a tragedy.

What I ended up with was several commenters that felt quite strongly that this was an improved ending, and a couple that wished it had remained HEA. The overall rating is sitting at a 3.77, significantly lower than the original (on four to five times the votes and views).

I guess if you write well and always play it safe, you can put up some ratings. If you want to draw outside the lines, go ahead and do it, but don't let the ratings drive you nuts.

In other news, my stories have accumulated over a million views. I know that's peanuts compared to many other authors, but I think it's pretty cool. Years ago, I had an erotica blog and I managed about 100 views a day. It would have taken a hell of a long time to pull in a million views at that rate.

 

[patientlee]

It's the category. Romance likes HEA. Maybe EC would have given a better result? Trust me. It's a better story with this ending. I thought the HEA was kind of a jolt from the flow of the story.

I read a lot. I know a good story when I read it.

It's nice to have your stories highly rated. You get that awesome red H, and possibly positioning that will get you more reads. The reality, however, is that the rating is not always a reliable indicator of how good a story is. For starters, what is a good story? Some might judge how well written and thought out a story is. Others may judge it entirely on how turned on they get while reading it. Others still may judge it on how much they like or dislike a character or ending. Of course, pick one of the incendiary categories like LW, and anything can happen.

My FAWC 4 submission illustrates this perfectly. When the story was originally published, it flirted with winning the FAWC, and ended up with a 4.6 rating. After the FAWC, the story was removed (because I didn't follow instructions), and I ended up reposting it with a different ending. I removed a single paragraph and added several new ones, modifying the ending from a HEA to a tragedy.

What I ended up with was several commenters that felt quite strongly that this was an improved ending, and a couple that wished it had remained HEA. The overall rating is sitting at a 3.77, significantly lower than the original (on four to five times the votes and views).

I guess if you write well and always play it safe, you can put up some ratings. If you want to draw outside the lines, go ahead and do it, but don't let the ratings drive you nuts.

In other news, my stories have accumulated over a million views. I know that's peanuts compared to many other authors, but I think it's pretty cool. Years ago, I had an erotica blog and I managed about 100 views a day. It would have taken a hell of a long time to pull in a million views at that rate.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LIT readers are notorious for going to steak houses and demanding vegan, then one-bombing when there's no fried chicken in the story.

I read and scribble noir. That is, a nasty sort of business where all are corrupt and unscrupulous in every facet of their lives. Most people hate it. Yet LIT readers look at it and one-bomb it, knowing whats in store. Jesus! Stick to PRETTY WOMAN DOES THE BRADY BUNCH.

 

[Serafina1210]

I haven't been posting stories here for long, but I've noticed that one with an upbeat ending will almost always get a better rating than one that ends on a sad note. In a series, I now try to end chapters on an upbeat (if I can), but it wouldn't be good to let considerations like that influence the larger plot.

Kink, it seems to me, often brings down ratings, but I like certain kinks, so I just take the hit. Gay and Bi sex seems to bring down ratings if the story isn't in the Gay category.

Beyond those things, though, most readers seem to reward good characters and good storytelling.

 

[Swilly]

All true. Writing to ratings will decrease quality and creativity. That doesn't mean a story can't go there if it's the right thing to do. Better to let the story do what it needs to do and let the chips fall where they may.

Both Ellie and I toyed with some tragedy at the end of The Rhythm Method. Mine in particular would have been a bit of a bloodbath. I didn't have the heart after 17 lit pages to do it, and it really didn't need to be done.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

It's a much better ending, Swilly. When I originally read the piece, I thought it was well-written, compelling, but ultimately a little unsatisfiying. That is not to say it wasn't very good. It was. But I felt as if it could be more. It's more this way--ratings be damned.

I try to never play it safe. I'm here to push myself, to experiment. I have a job that demands that I color in the lines. I'm here to scribble my heart out.

 

[Swilly]

Thanks to all for the good words.

The revised ending surely did elicit stronger feelings in the readers. That's even better than a high rating if you ask me.

 

[patientlee]

Thanks to all for the good words.

The revised ending surely did elicit stronger feelings in the readers. That's even better than a high rating if you ask me.

That's the goal. That's why you're a good writer. You get it.

 

[Hypoxia]

I roughly classify tales as 'pandering' or 'challenging'. My challenging pieces get lower ratings but more insightful comments. A good pandering story has vivid hot sex, the tragic death of a leading sympathetic character (or relationship), and an HEA ending where H is preferably 'happy' but at least 'hopeful'. This formula stimulates 1) gonads, 2) tears, and 3) euphoria, successively. Leave out any of those elements, and ratings will be lower. (Which means I ended my latest BOOK OF RUTH chapter on the wrong note, dammit. Gotta write happier teases.)

 

[TamLin01]

Simple facts:

1. Not every story is going to be popular.

2. Readers are not always the fairest judges of any given story, but the author is never the fairest judge of his/her own story.

3. People will vote however they like regardless of what anyone else says or does.

4. Disappointment, be it occasional or regular, is the cost of being read. The only effective proof against it is not to publicly express yourself at all.

 

[FantasyXY]

I almost never write a story with a HEA ending. They just seem a little too "made for TV" to me. I also don't care to read stories that are all HEA and junk either. They seem kind of "flat" to me. Oddly, I am okay with HEA endings in movies. I have no idea why I have such a double standard.

Endings aside, when I vote, my rating almost always is a reflection of how easily I could follow the story, if there is actually a story in there. The postings that I find hardest to rate are the ones that are well written, but are only about one aspect of a sexual encounter and do not have a story wrapped around the sex. (I am sooo friggin guilty of writing these sorts of stories. Please make me stop!! )

 

[PennLady]

I write HEAs, but I like them, and if my story needed something else, I'd write something else. I also often put in what I call "happy for now" (HFN), because I often end my stories on an "I love you" note, but not a marriage, engagement, etc. The implication of the HFN is HEA, I realize, but still.

I don't think an HEA is required for Romance -- witness stories like Love Story, et al -- but it tends to go over well.

 

[DirtyAllie]

I believe it is as simple as a site like lit being escapism. People come here to get away from all their real life drama so when a story has a not so happy ending I think the knee jerk reaction is to be upset.

I think especially in the case of a story moving along happily and a sudden death at the end or other depressing event then it really gets hit because it came from nowhere. At least if a story is grim all the way through people get the chance to click off.

On the other hand I credit authors who will give darker endings or material because I feel they are writing more for the story than the rating. Mostly anyway as I have run into authors whose 'dark' seems too forced and seems like a bad act.

Some of my favorite authors are those who mix it up. A writer who can give me a feel good HEA, but then make me cringe in their next story.

 

[Machu_Gamesmas]

I believe it is as simple as a site like lit being escapism. People come here to get away from all their real life drama so when a story has a not so happy ending I think the knee jerk reaction is to be upset.

I think especially in the case of a story moving along happily and a sudden death at the end or other depressing event then it really gets hit because it came from nowhere. At least if a story is grim all the way through people get the chance to click off.

On the other hand I credit authors who will give darker endings or material because I feel they are writing more for the story than the rating. Mostly anyway as I have run into authors whose 'dark' seems too forced and seems like a bad act.

Some of my favorite authors are those who mix it up. A writer who can give me a feel good HEA, but then make me cringe in their next story.

I am really glad to have found this thread as it hold quite a few valid points. I am totally new to having people read my erotic fiction, and think I'm doing better than when I wrote in my youth. When I tried to first figure out the voting system on the site, I thought that some of the lower votes were placed there intentionally, even vindictively, regardless of how good or bad the story was, just to bring down that rating and that suspicion remains.
I was offended by a some of the more vulgar, one-line commentary. Things like 'What a piece of dog shit! you should stop writing.' and the like. I decided, very recently, that I would just keep plugging away, banging the keys so to speak, and let the story go where it wanted. In essence, I don't plan on changing my writing style and those who don't like it can just move on, whether they plunge my rating down or not.
I have to write the way I feel I must, dark, happy, sexy, intricate, or a combination there of. The story just can't be contained or led it seems. I am the one who is taking the journey when I write, the story leading me, not the other way around.

Machu

 

[49greg]

I believe it is as simple as a site like lit being escapism. People come here to get away from all their real life drama so when a story has a not so happy ending I think the knee jerk reaction is to be upset.

I think especially in the case of a story moving along happily and a sudden death at the end or other depressing event then it really gets hit because it came from nowhere. At least if a story is grim all the way through people get the chance to click off.

On the other hand I credit authors who will give darker endings or material because I feel they are writing more for the story than the rating. Mostly anyway as I have run into authors whose 'dark' seems too forced and seems like a bad act.

Some of my favorite authors are those who mix it up. A writer who can give me a feel good HEA, but then make me cringe in their next story.

Well, I've got to admit that Escapism is why I first started reading here on Lit. It took a couple of years before I started to write. Sometimes when I'm writing a story a really really dark me comes out and when I look at the screen I wonder what happened. And sure enough when I post a tamed down dark story or chapter I get lower ratings.

Personally I like happy endings, mainly because I identify very very deeply with the main character in a well written story. When it ends badly for him or her I ... feel bad. So when a writer gets to me that way I have to admit that it must have been a good story to get me that sucked into it. But the little boy in me sometimes surfaces and I hit the lower stars as if to say "nooooo waaaaah." and shake my rattle and throw my blankey across the crib, before curling into a miserable ball. When I get rational I realize then how good the writing must have been.

 

[jomar]

Also, awhile back they changed the voting labels which seemed to have the effect of making it harder to get higher ratings.

 

[Machu_Gamesmas]

Well, I've got to admit that Escapism is why I first started reading here on Lit. It took a couple of years before I started to write. Sometimes when I'm writing a story a really really dark me comes out and when I look at the screen I wonder what happened. And sure enough when I post a tamed down dark story or chapter I get lower ratings.

Personally I like happy endings, mainly because I identify very very deeply with the main character in a well written story. When it ends badly for him or her I ... feel bad. So when a writer gets to me that way I have to admit that it must have been a good story to get me that sucked into it. But the little boy in me sometimes surfaces and I hit the lower stars as if to say "nooooo waaaaah." and shake my rattle and throw my blankey across the crib, before curling into a miserable ball. When I get rational I realize then how good the writing must have been.

And that is why the negative comments I have gotten should not bother me. At least I was able to get the reader to a point where some emotion showed.

 

[xelliebabex]

All true. Writing to ratings will decrease quality and creativity. That doesn't mean a story can't go there if it's the right thing to do. Better to let the story do what it needs to do and let the chips fall where they may.

Both Ellie and I toyed with some tragedy at the end of The Rhythm Method. Mine in particular would have been a bit of a bloodbath. I didn't have the heart after 17 lit pages to do it, and it really didn't need to be done.

I laughed when i read the above but I am not sure the ending we left was entirely HEA more one of LadyPenn's HFNs.

I find that an authors accent can also affect ratings, I have odd little quirks that i didn't even realise I have and when we wrote together Swilly and i often had to translate for each other. Some of the foods and normal things were really terribly foreign to me and i am sure vice versa.

Not a week goes by without a friendly feedback email pointing out that i have spelled realise wrong all through my story or something similar like colour and if i actually give a character a colloquial Australian accent or use idioms that the rest of the word may not be familiar with then i get a lot of helpful people emailing me, and in the main they really do believe they are just being helpful, not many are over mean about that.

I gave up worrying about ratings when i killed off one the main character's of one of my series and the comments made me have visions of them coming for me with pitch forks and torches, lol.

I like to write, I admit i suck at grammar and editing, but I am not asking anyone to pay for my work here, so people who complain just make me roll my eyes these days. Admittedly more than half of my stories have done well here, I am not sure i would have written as much if the majority had have tanked badly. At the end of the day though, I like it, its a great hobby that i can indulge in anytime the mood takes me unlike many other hobbies.

You're a great writer Swilly, I agree that ratings shouldn't be the only barometer by which we judge good stories.

 

[Gunnlaug]

It's nice to have your stories highly rated. You get that awesome red H, and possibly positioning that will get you more reads.

Whilst I agree with the general point of Swilly's OP I can't get past the first sentence. Here we have the real issue - lower rating = fewer views. I have limited time and if I feel like reading a story instead of, say, watching some sport, or having a chat with Mrs Gunnlaug, or getting on with some scripting for the amateur film-makers I work with, then I will immediately look for something with a higher rating. My reason for this is simple; there are tens of thousands of stories on this site and the only way to differentiate then is by rating. In short, if it is rated less than 4 I don't bother, purely because there are a ton of stories rated lass than 4 and fewer rated above. I suspect pretty much every other reader makes the same shallow, arbitrary choices as I do.

So, when I get a low rating from a reader it feels like a personal attack. Now, I am not so arrogant to feel that the only reason they have given me a 1 is something personal (and why should it be? I am pretty much unknown on Lit, being a new author, and I can't see any particular reason I would attract any grudges). I am well aware that I am light years away from the quality of the best authors here, and a low rating can be justified, reflecting the feeling of a reader. But whether it is a true reflection of a reader's dislike or something personal that 1 rating, particularly if it hits early in the voting, can torpedo an overall rating. And therefore views.

A case in point; late last week I had a story accepted and posted in Humour and Satire. The first two votes were clearly a 5 and a 4. Cool, I thought, this means lots of reads (the only thing other than personal satisfaction for a job well done that we can hope for). And then the next vote was a 1. The story rating dropped to 3.33. Now, in H&S I don't expect the same level of reads as LW or NC/Rel but when a new story only has about 800 reads after six days it is hard to escape the conclusion that the reader (or grudge-holder) who dropped a 1 has stuck a very effective spanner in the works.

I am not suggesting that everything should change to accommodate my fragile feelings. But thank fuck we have the Author's Hangout to come to and grumble!

 

[Hypoxia]

So, when I get a low rating from a reader it feels like a personal attack.

A couple of what I consider well-written pieces have scores just above 2.0 but many views, one in LW at 20k, the other in IT at 70k. IMHO the drivers of views are 1) category and 2) enticing title and description.

Why my low scores? Those pieces are challenging, not pandering -- and too many readers just don't like to be challenged. They want to get what they expect. I like to write the unexpected. So, low scores come with the territory. And one of my 'challenging' pieces DOES score well. Thus, I retain hope.

But personal attacks suck. Especially from those who haven't even the stuff.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Especially from those who haven't even read the stuff.

(See - I read it )

 

[SecondCircle]

So I won't necessarily give the usual most obvious advice here. The "write what YOU like" and "just have fun" and all that. Those snippets are already in the Lit Handbook and have been well documented in the AH many times. We know there are trolls that for some reason vote crazy and bomb, we know readers have the right to vote as they see fit. We know there is an incredible amount of diversity here in readers and writers. We know that there are stories with low scores that are actually awesome, and stories with Red H's that are kinda WTF.

What I can offer is a general idea of how I personally look at ratings and how I approach them. I think Swilly has the right idea just with the title of this thread.

The way I examine my writing quality and story reception is by stepping back and looking at the big picture. For one thing HONESTY plays a big role. I complete a story and submit it, knowing that I'm human. I probably botched something. I probably could have done this better or that better. I have a general sense of how I think I did with the story, and it's never "I fucking wrote a masterpiece there." I know what I think its strong points were, and what I really enjoyed. For those elements I have high hopes. I also look back at what I could have done better, or where I think I came up short. In a way, I am my first critic.

Then comes the reader reception. The rating of stories (or of anything) isn't an exact science. I've had stories start in the 2's that a year later sit in the 4's. I've had a lot of mixed feedback on a story ranging from "this wasn't good or didn't make sense" to "wow really great job with this or that". I've had stories start out strong, way up close to a five that rotted away to threes and back up again.

How can I possibly gauge with any accuracy what most readers think of any story?

By looking at the big picture. Conceding that there are things wrong with every story I post that I strive to make better next time. By understanding that just because some readers don't like something, and others do, none of them are "right or wrong". I can take in how I think I honestly did with a story, then consider how the voters seemed to think and get an overall picture of how things are working out.

I can't take most things at simple face value. I'm the type to watch the patterns, consider the variables, learn from the good and the bad, and always try to write something awesome and better than before. I don't say, "well this did well I'll keep doing that", nor do I say, "this had bad votes but I'm writing in a niche or votes don't really matter." Ratings are just general guidelines.

Votes do matter, and they don't matter. It just depends on HOW you let them matter. As Swilly said "don't take ratings to heart." The way I phrase it is "don't take ratings at face value." Don't take things too seriously. Don't view things through one lense, use many lenses.

You can choose to define your work by a simple number. But if we all did that we'd never get anywhere. We'd just be chasing numbers.

 

[Hypoxia]

(See - I read it )

But don't comment or fave, alas. Not on mine anyway.

 

[DiminutiveDame]

While I completely agree that the rating shouldn't be taken to heart and that there are a range of variable affecting them; for someone like me who doesn't get a lot of attention to their stories a high rating bring a smile.

It does feel kind of cool to get the swanky red H and be on the higher end of a rating, encourages one to continue to write what they themselves enjoy and hopefully improve.

 

[Machu_Gamesmas]

Great thread

Thank you Swilly for starting this thread. The posts have provided me encouragement, as well as a number of reasons for not taking the ratings so personally. I have, what I believe, is a pretty common style, just writing what comes to mind more than having an actual plot planned out. I have also been a bit more open minded in reading the comments, taking to heart the advice of those who bother to leave any.

I hope that what I take from this thread, along with the revelations it has allowed me, is a measure of confidence to can be a better writer. With practice, and a lot more research to keep a story believable, I plan on continuing to pound the keys.

Thanks again for all of the thought provoking advice from all who have posted.


Machu