Doms, issues, etc..

[Homburg]

So I was talking with this really brilliant, attractive lady (red hair, well read, calls herself a prude on occasion), and I somehow managed to dreary, introspective, and dull. She upbraided me a bit for it, and made some useful noise about a Dom Support thread that someone started awhile back. Couldn't find it, oh well.

Still, I'd made a comment about being more willing to admit to my occassional fantasies involving Shank and semisoft cheese than to admit to some of the emotional issues I have with various domly things. It got me to thinking that other Domly types may have issues as well. I went hunting for that thread, and, true to form, the search function proved too obtuse for me to make good use of it.

So, here I am. Found my balls, and decided to just post and talk about some things, and see if anyone else was in the boat, or if Marquis and Francisco were going to knock on my door and pull my Dom Card for being too much of a wuss to be a Dom.

The issue that I am mulling over right now centers around the desire to be used. I've had more than one woman, hell, every woman I've played with recently, want to be "used". I have issues with that, plain and simple.

For me, sex has to be mutual, or I'm not going to get as much out of it. If I just hammer away like a drunken sailor then pull out and blow a load all over her (which to my mind is a worthwhile example of "use me" as I can think of right now), I'm really, well, not doing the whole sex thing right. See, I like it when she orgasms. I like teasing them out, fucking them out, licking them out, rubbing them out, and beating them out. I like em orgasms. Yet, conceptually, and this is how I have had the "use me" concept explained by one of the ladies that wanted to be used, the whole idea is to simply get my wad off and not care about her pleasure.

Dull. Boring.

Unfortunately, it seems to be a recurring theme with the women I've been with. It is so prevalent that I've wound up deciding it is a mini-scene in itself. I put myself in a given mindset, put her in some uncomfortable position, growl "I don't fucking care if you come or not" and just hammer away. I tell myself that she wants it this way, and she is getting something from it, so it isn't reeeeally using her. But I still feel a bit bad about it. Yeah, I know, I'm a wuss.

It gets worse though. Haven't really orgnaised my thoughts well enough in that direction, but it ties into the theme of not wanting to use people. Part of it comes down to worrying about not being willing to do this, and thus feeling less than Domly. The next part is worrying what an asshole I'll turn into if I somehow stop worrying about using people. Ugh, circular and fucked up. Can't freakin win.


(As an aside, one time, and one time only did I "use" someone for my own pleasure, denying hers, and enjoyed it. I wanted a particular gal to be exceedingly horny for an event we were attending, so I proceed to touch, rub, tease, and fuck her riiiight to the edge of orgasm multiple times over the course of about 45 minutes. Then, after being exceedingly hard and heavy, I finally pulled and blew the aforementioned load all over her. Her little scream of pure frustration really just wound my sadistic, evil self up good. So while I am not going to be sexually satisfied by using someone, if it is really nasty and vicious, I'm sadistic enough to enjoy it. Go figure.)

 

[somberReality]

I want orgasms too. Since when do women ever know what they want? Pfft.

 

[Netzach]

Are you worried that they want a steady diet of sex you don't particularly care for, or do you chafe at being a fulfiller of fantasy, or is this just like, one of those things that you can do periodically purely because she thinks it's hot and you'll totally be the best thing that walks for a while afterward and she knows that, like cheesecake, she's not going to get it every day?

Cause the last seems kinda win-win.

Yeah I know that's very vanilla sexpert Dan Savage of me, but I'm clocking in there a lot lately.

 

[CutieMouse]

Ahhh... but grasshopper, what if you wrap your mind around this?

You enjoy driving her insane with lust and climaxing so often that she's lost count because that brings you pleasure, but she envisions being "used" as not involving any sort of orgasm at all... isn't the fact that you're taking your pleasure when, how, and where you want (regardless of her opinion on the orgasm thing) a perfect example of using her?

*raises eyebrow and waits for it to sink in*

 

[Netzach]

Ahhh... but grasshopper, what if you wrap your mind around this?

You enjoy driving her insane with lust and climaxing so often that she's lost count because that brings you pleasure, but she envisions being "used" as not involving any sort of orgasm at all... isn't the fact that you're taking your pleasure when, how, and where you want (regardless of her opinion on the orgasm thing) a perfect example of using her?

*raises eyebrow and waits for it to sink in*

score 10 for dominance and lesson learned score 5 for pushing compatibility into the sexual death stage.

Just my experience.

 

[Homburg]

Are you worried that they want a steady diet of sex you don't particularly care for, or do you chafe at being a fulfiller of fantasy, or is this just like, one of those things that you can do periodically purely because she thinks it's hot and you'll totally be the best thing that walks for a while afterward and she knows that, like cheesecake, she's not going to get it every day?

Cause the last seems kinda win-win.

As usual, your spin on things is attractive.To an extent, that is what I am currently doing.

I'm bothered for a couple of reasons, and, as I said before, still trying to get a mental handle on it. One is, yeah, I simply dislike the idea of sex that I do not care for. I actively dig being a fulfiller of fantasy though. It is honestly a hot-button for me, thus the reason why I am willing to do this (amongst other things).

I think it is a bit deeper than that for me, and revolves around just not wanting to use people purely for my own pleasure in this manner because that is not how my pleasure works. In short, I'm not excited by drunken sailor sex. If I wanted to use her, I'd beat the dickens out of her and not let her come. that would be using her in a fashion that suits me and feels like I'm using her from my viewpoint. In this case, what they are defining as "use me", I see as just bad sex. The more I think about this, the more I am tempted to simple redefine the concept of "use me". "You want me to use you? Let me grab the cane..."

It gets deeper than that though. Gets into such things as my hunt for a rope bunny, for example, and realising that I might have issues with having someone in my life purely for the purpose of tying them up and taking pictures. I begin to wonder if I will define that as "use" and thus be unhappy with it...

 

[h_i_s]

I don't know as I get nothing out of being the one in control (the PYL)... so...
Is that the issue? Meaning, if you are being TOLD or ASKED to be used.. is it really the same thing as you WANTING to do what you want purely for your own pleasure....... or are you just doing what they want and in that effect..... you are really pleasing them and not your own domly selfish needs/wants/desires etc?

Topping from the bottom? I don't know.. but I know that as much as IYM gets no pleasure from it..... it wouldn't rock my world either.

I love being used. But if it is my idea and I need to ask for it, makes me wonder exactly who the user is and who is being used. That doesn't do it for me, at all.

Just food for thought... and maybe too obvious at that. ??

 

[CutieMouse]

Oh I'm not saying steady diet of it... more of a head-space thing to mix up with the "using" the way the other person expects it - that the submissive type never knows which to expect, and along the way the dominant type might start feeling a bit more balanced about the subject...

 

[Netzach]

As usual, your spin on things is attractive.To an extent, that is what I am currently doing.

I'm bothered for a couple of reasons, and, as I said before, still trying to get a mental handle on it. One is, yeah, I simply dislike the idea of sex that I do not care for. I actively dig being a fulfiller of fantasy though. It is honestly a hot-button for me, thus the reason why I am willing to do this (amongst other things).

I think it is a bit deeper than that for me, and revolves around just not wanting to use people purely for my own pleasure in this manner because that is not how my pleasure works. In short, I'm not excited by drunken sailor sex. If I wanted to use her, I'd beat the dickens out of her and not let her come. that would be using her in a fashion that suits me and feels like I'm using her from my viewpoint. In this case, what they are defining as "use me", I see as just bad sex. The more I think about this, the more I am tempted to simple redefine the concept of "use me". "You want me to use you? Let me grab the cane..."

It gets deeper than that though. Gets into such things as my hunt for a rope bunny, for example, and realising that I might have issues with having someone in my life purely for the purpose of tying them up and taking pictures. I begin to wonder if I will define that as "use" and thus be unhappy with it...

Oh. I want someone in my life purely to tie and dress up and photo too, but I never had any Barbies.

I guess as for sex I'm omniverous enough that the only bad sex I can think of is dispassionate and clumsy. Honestly, sex wherein the boy is passive-receptive-tied down may be my favorite, but it's not something I want to be limited to solely for the rest of my life.

 

[Netzach]

Oh I'm not saying steady diet of it... more of a head-space thing to mix up with the "using" the way the other person expects it - that the submissive type never knows which to expect, and along the way the dominant type might start feeling a bit more balanced about the subject...

Oh yes, entirely valid - if someone can second guess me every time, I'm not doing my job.

 

[Homburg]

Ahhh... but grasshopper, what if you wrap your mind around this?

You enjoy driving her insane with lust and climaxing so often that she's lost count because that brings you pleasure, but she envisions being "used" as not involving any sort of orgasm at all... isn't the fact that you're taking your pleasure when, how, and where you want (regardless of her opinion on the orgasm thing) a perfect example of using her?

*raises eyebrow and waits for it to sink in*

I'm with you. Yeah, been thinking about that too, and it is another reason why I go ahead and do drunken sailor sex on occassion. Same with other things, consensual non-consent, public play, etc.

And, dammit, I'm the Dom. It's okay for me to use her how I want to use her. Really...

 

[graceanne]

Out of curiousity sake could you fill both your fantasy's? I mean you say that she doesn't want you to care if she cums, but wouldn't that in reverse means you don't care if she cums? Am I making sense? I mean that she wants to not cum and have you not care, but truelly not caring means that you don't care if she DOES, too.

 

[Netzach]

I don't know as I get nothing out of being the one in control (the PYL)... so...
Is that the issue? Meaning, if you are being TOLD or ASKED to be used.. is it really the same thing as you WANTING to do what you want purely for your own pleasure....... or are you just doing what they want and in that effect..... you are really pleasing them and not your own domly selfish needs/wants/desires etc?

Topping from the bottom? I don't know.. but I know that as much as IYM gets no pleasure from it..... it wouldn't rock my world either.

I love being used. But if it is my idea and I need to ask for it, makes me wonder exactly who the user is and who is being used. That doesn't do it for me, at all.

Just food for thought... and maybe too obvious at that. ??

I get hung up on this a lot lately. I don't like to feel like I am strongarming or manipulating what I want to have done to me -- too much, that is.

But my Bull really likes when I ask for things, it dawned on me this week while I was struggling with this issue. When I let him know that, yes, I DO want him to cum all over my panty hose, slather it around and pull up my skirt and take me out to lunch like that (I know that's pretty 101 juvenile for a lot of people, but for me it's edge) that's kind of an erection-producer for him.

More so than just quietly being willing to let him do that, but of course.

And I had a self-slapping no fucking DUH moment when I realized that, I too, am wired thus. I'm all about the asking/begging/admitting thing.

So maybe if you make her tell you in a long litany just what the hell she MEANS when she says "use me" and get all red in the face doing it, that might make the bad sex less bad.

 

[doveofserenity]

For me, sex has to be mutual, or I'm not going to get as much out of it. If I just hammer away like a drunken sailor then pull out and blow a load all over her (which to my mind is a worthwhile example of "use me" as I can think of right now), I'm really, well, not doing the whole sex thing right. See, I like it when she orgasms. I like teasing them out, fucking them out, licking them out, rubbing them out, and beating them out. I like em orgasms. Yet, conceptually, and this is how I have had the "use me" concept explained by one of the ladies that wanted to be used, the whole idea is to simply get my wad off and not care about her pleasure.

Sir, from this subs POV; when she says "use me"; that is saying to Him; do what YOU wish. Not just "blow Your load", but whatever it is You wish to do to her. Whether that be, as You stated above; teasing, fucking, licking, rubbing, beating..whatever pleases You.

Because have You ever seen a sub that couldn't get off by one of the things You wish to do to her? In my mind, when she says "use me"; she knows You are diverse in Your ways. And she would never know what way You decided to be at that time. The anticipation of what is to come is a big turn at that point.

Hope that helps You see within some subs minds.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think it depends on the person you interact with as to what they mean by 'use me' and where that takes them and you individually and together. I know for a fact some women who ask for it do so simply because they do not want to have to be bothered doing anything but lay there with their legs spread...laziness IOW...and something they mistakenly think is every man's dream and then some.

Others want to be used in a way which makes them feel a variety of things including humiliated, degraded, soiled, and this may be with or without a need for them to have input in what happens, even be told it is expected they will orgasm to give the user the pleasure they desire...which can also give them pleasure just for the sheer mental aspects of being used, being treated in a way they have never been given the freedom to before, with or without orgasm.

While I agree it is sometimes verging on topping from the bottom to voice this need, it is also true we keep telling people over and over that communication is paramount, and expressing your needs/wants instead of expecting the other to be a mind reader is the way to go. It usually takes a lot of courage to be able to voice such deep needs as being used if it is based on feelings of being humiliated etc., and to be treated to that experience can be the ultimate in pleasure for them contrary to the view it is to be a one sided experience as in the PYL being the only one to receive pleasure. This is the mindfuck so often. I can enjoy a night of passion wherein he plays my body to perfection, gains pleasure from my pleasure and controls that pleasure for his own....but I can also derive great pleasure from being taken roughly, often unexpectedly as in woken from sleep by him dragging me into position by my hair and the whole act resulting in an orgasm or not.

I think most men put too much emphasis on a woman orgasming as a sign they have given her pleasure and been the perfect lover...sometimes there is more pleasure in not orgasming, sometimes there is just as much pleasure but for one reason or another orgasm does not occur, and sometimes it is necessary to visit the darker realms of our mind, desires and bedrooms to find the ultimate pleasure that some will never know and we have often denied was real because it was what we were taught to believe in mainstream circles was wrong. I guess what I am trying to say is pleasure comes in many forms, not just the standard ways we have been educated to believe are real and good.

Catalina

 

[Homburg]

Lots of posts to reply to here. Lots of action on this thread. Thanks everyone.

--

sinn0cent - Not topping from the bottom, really. I make it a point to know the fantasies of whomever I play with, and that one keeps popping up.

I do so both because I like to know what makes a given woman tick sexually, and because I really get a thrill out of the obvious discomfort and embarassment that comes out when she tells me her fantasies. Rawr.

--

Oh. I want someone in my life purely to tie and dress up and photo too, but I never had any Barbies.

I don't know whether to laugh at this or not.

I guess as for sex I'm omniverous enough that the only bad sex I can think of is dispassionate and clumsy. Honestly, sex wherein the boy is passive-receptive-tied down may be my favorite, but it's not something I want to be limited to solely for the rest of my life.

Well, and this addresses those asking about this as a part-time thing, I do it. I don't do it a lot. As you said, Netzach, I don't want her to be able to second-guess me.

I bring it up because it is a recurring theme with a range of women, and it is something I dislike. It would be like saying that I don't like touching breasts, and every women I've met liked having her breasts touched. In short, there seems to be a fundamental disconnect between myself and this particular, and common, fantasy, and I am trying to figure out how to bridge the gap so as to not find the idea so blah.

But my Bull really likes when I ask for things, it dawned on me this week while I was struggling with this issue. When I let him know that, yes, I DO want him to cum all over my panty hose, slather it around and pull up my skirt and take me out to lunch like that (I know that's pretty 101 juvenile for a lot of people, but for me it's edge) that's kind of an erection-producer for him.

Yes, I like to know these things too, because I like to know that I am... How to explain this... Hmm, by knowing what she likes, and using that knowledge, I don't just pull her strings, I play them like I would play a harp.

So maybe if you make her tell you in a long litany just what the hell she MEANS when she says "use me" and get all red in the face doing it, that might make the bad sex less bad.

Well slap me and call me Susan. Netzach, I think I'll join the FungiUg Club of Men Shamelessly in Love with Netzach.

I'm squirming just reading this, because I can imagine how red-faced at least one particular gal will get when I make her do this.

 

[Homburg]

This thread is a perfect example of why I post here.

doveofserenity, Catalina, thank you both. I need to mull over this some more before I make any more detailed responses.

 

[graceanne]

I get hung up on this a lot lately. I don't like to feel like I am strongarming or manipulating what I want to have done to me -- too much, that is.

But my Bull really likes when I ask for things, it dawned on me this week while I was struggling with this issue. When I let him know that, yes, I DO want him to cum all over my panty hose, slather it around and pull up my skirt and take me out to lunch like that (I know that's pretty 101 juvenile for a lot of people, but for me it's edge) that's kind of an erection-producer for him.

More so than just quietly being willing to let him do that, but of course.

And I had a self-slapping no fucking DUH moment when I realized that, I too, am wired thus. I'm all about the asking/begging/admitting thing.

So maybe if you make her tell you in a long litany just what the hell she MEANS when she says "use me" and get all red in the face doing it, that might make the bad sex less bad.

Actually this is a problem me and K have. He wants me to tell him, and to initiate sex and all that. And I really struggle to be that pushy. lol

 

[unfoundiamond]

so why don't you want to call it that...

You know the realist inside me makes me tell you everyone uses everyone. Everyone has an agenda... the question is: is the using malicious?

I have been with girls and stayed virtually dressed completely the whole time, making them cum, after I undressed, washed, and sometimes shaved them. Never taking off even my tshirt... I didn't even cum that's why to me it seems like I was using them, it was a power thing I got off on. It was sober and consentual, and we both enjoyed it... everytime... I still see these girls all the time, ran into one at the bar even, Hugs and smiles and telling her childs father what a great girlfriend I was, while I laugh and remember what her nipples look like, LOL, seriously....

So was it wrong of me to use them if they wanted me to??

I don't think its always wrong, If you are doing something to please someone, is that wrong?? Can't be... right??

I have also heard men(Doms too...) call it using a woman when he is fucking her... If we are made to procreate then when we have sex with someone isn't it using them... using them for what they are made for... to fuck and have babies... ah the circle of life... how it makes me sentimental....

 

[DeservingBitch]

My take on it is this:

If by 'use me' these women are asking for a 'tie-me-up-and-do-me' experience, where they are basically asking you to do all the work while they just passively lay there having their fantasies and sexual pleasures fullfiled without having to bring in any input, I'm totally with you on the blah feeling toward it.

But if by 'use me' they mean take control away from me, make me do stuff for you that i am too embarassed to initiate, make me beg to do that stuff to you, tell me what a dirty cunt i am while i do it, etc., that is a completely different scenario, and one which I like a lot. You want me to 'use you'? Well get on your knees boy, beg me to let you massage and suck on my toes, and once i let you touch my feet, you better put some enthusiasm and skills in it. Now, that's the kind of 'use me' that I'm all for.

 

[Netzach]

--



I don't know whether to laugh at this or not.

Laugh. Although I may be an argument for mattel - see what happens if you don't get your daughter a barbie?

 

[DeservingBitch]

I never had a barbie either... coincidence???

 

[Homburg]

My take on it is this:

If by 'use me' these women are asking for a 'tie-me-up-and-do-me' experience, where they are basically asking you to do all the work while they just passively lay there having their fantasies and sexual pleasures fullfiled without having to bring in any input, I'm totally with you on the blah feeling toward it.

But if by 'use me' they mean take control away from me, make me do stuff for you that i am too embarassed to initiate, make me beg to do that stuff to you, tell me what a dirty cunt i am while i do it, etc., that is a completely different scenario, and one which I like a lot. You want me to 'use you'? Well get on your knees boy, beg me to let you massage and suck on my toes, and once i let you touch my feet, you better put some enthusiasm and skills in it. Now, that's the kind of 'use me' that I'm all for.

It's somewher ebetween those. More of the former, not enough of the latter. Much like yourself, I want more of the latter. Probably time for me to take a bit Netzach's idea, sprinkle it with your choice offerings, and come up with something that will make me happy, and make her feel properly nasty.

There have been moments. I once 'paid' my gal for sex. After we were done, I tossed some pocket change at her, told her it was what the sex was worth. She positively melted. I don't get it, but she was happy, and it suited my twisted inner bastard. The infamous bed-wrecking incident occured during an "I don't care if you fucking come" moment. Sometimes I can find the proper headspace to balance the two impulses. Oddly enough, it is FAR easier to do with my gal than with play partners. Infinitely easier.

--

Laugh. Although I may be an argument for mattel - see what happens if you don't get your daughter a barbie?

Wait, this is- *head asplodes*

 

[nh23]

I agree with dove and DB here. I guess it all depends on what they mean when they say use me. To ME use me means do with me what you wish. I want you to take total control over my body. I don't need to worry over what I want, I want what you want of me. If that means having multiple orgasms while singing the national anthem, or not having an orgasm at all. Whatever pleases my Sir is what will give me pleasure.

 

[myinnerslut]

i've had a similiar conversatio with A when he asked me what i wanted and i replied "use me"

he said "i AM using you, just how I want to use you, not how You want to be used"