Dominance

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Read some science articles about dominance a few minutes ago. The perfessers seem to be clueless about what real dominance is. But if you consider how dominance expresses itself it seems simple and obvious.

Dominants act, submissives react. The dominant is confident of the outcome, the submissive isnt. The dominant knows how, the submissive doesnt. In a crisis submissives always defer to dominants.

That said, antithetical people are always submissive; though their opposition and defiance seems alpha, it isnt, its reactionary.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

When I imagine dominant men I naturally think of Robert E.Lee or Napoleon, not some fat body in tights and a cape who delivers bottled water the rest of the week.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Apples and oranges, jimmy.

It's one of those places were a word has been pressed into service for lack of a better one-- and chosen based on some superficial similarities with something some guy said about someone famous.

The dominance you admire is social dominance. Dominance in the bedroom is only important to the people in the bed-- although, like yourself, many of those bedroom dominants also admire the socially dominant, and want to be like them.

That's a very very good gloss though. is it yours?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Apples and oranges, jimmy.

It's one of those places were a word has been pressed into service for lack of a better one-- and chosen based on some superficial similarities with something some guy said about someone famous.

The dominance you admire is social dominance. Dominance in the bedroom is only important to the people in the bed-- although, like yourself, many of those bedroom dominants also admire the socially dominant, and want to be like them.

That's a very very good gloss though. is it yours?

Oh! I tried it in the bedroom. If a gal wants her ass smacked I got a nice belt for the work. Every gal is different. And I pay attention to their clues. I simply dont buy the proposition that real dominance has anything to do with dressing like the Village People. Like Mr. Miyagi sez, I GOT BELT. CANVAS BELT. FOUR NINETY EIGHT AT J.C.PENNY.

 

[slyc_willie]

Dominants act, submissives react. The dominant is confident of the outcome, the submissive isnt. The dominant knows how, the submissive doesnt. In a crisis submissives always defer to dominants.

Consider this: the dominant follows a pattern of assumed control and outcome. The submissive has the upper hand in being able to dictate what actually happens. The dominant has only the illusion of control, while the submissive is able to allocate the actual outcome. If the sub plays along, the dom stays within the fantasy. If the sub alters the outcome, the dom struggles to compensate.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Consider this: the dominant follows a pattern of assumed control and outcome. The submissive has the upper hand in being able to dictate what actually happens. The dominant has only the illusion of control, while the submissive is able to allocate the actual outcome. If the sub plays along, the dom stays within the fantasy. If the sub alters the outcome, the dom struggles to compensate.

I ran into what you say, recently. Boring. But I fooled her.

 

[slyc_willie]

I don't think there really is such a thing as a truly D/s relationship. Not beyond the short term, anyway. It's a common fantasy that's sort of like the fairy tale "happily ever after." It sounds good on paper, but doesn't endure the long run.

A truly dominant person, in my opinion, is someone with a problematic inferiority complex. Likewise, a truly submissive person is someone with control issues. They may placate one another for a while, but it'll never last. A real relationship is built on either constant compromise (the norm), or mutual consent and understanding (the rarity).

Show me a truly D/s relationship that has lasted forty years and I'll show you a couple in denial.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I don't think there really is such a thing as a truly D/s relationship. Not beyond the short term, anyway. It's a common fantasy that's sort of like the fairy tale "happily ever after." It sounds good on paper, but doesn't endure the long run.

A truly dominant person, in my opinion, is someone with a problematic inferiority complex. Likewise, a truly submissive person is someone with control issues. They may placate one another for a while, but it'll never last. A real relationship is built on either constant compromise (the norm), or mutual consent and understanding (the rarity).

Show me a truly D/s relationship that has lasted forty years and I'll show you a couple in denial.

I cant agree with you, becuz I know naturally dominant people, and they always attract naturally submissive people who trust them to do the right thing. That said, there are women in positions of authority who act tough but arent. I know this after several sessions before the mast where they were forced to cave when I was right, and refused to defer to them. There are real princes in the world.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oh! I tried it in the bedroom. If a gal wants her ass smacked I got a nice belt for the work. Every gal is different. And I pay attention to their clues.

Like so many other people, you're talking about 'topping' and calling it 'dominance.'

I simply dont buy the proposition that real dominance has anything to do with dressing like the Village People. Like Mr. Miyagi sez, I GOT BELT. CANVAS BELT. FOUR NINETY EIGHT AT J.C.PENNY.

And you're right. The clothing is peripheral.

Dressing up doesn't mean someone is dominant, but it is one way to signal to other people that you and them are part of the same tribe.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Like so many other people, you're talking about 'topping' and calling it 'dominance.'
And you're right. The clothing is peripheral.

Dressing up doesn't mean someone is dominant, but it is one way to signal to other people that you and them are part of the same tribe.

But dont you 'know' when someone is dominant or submissive? I guess what I have trouble getting are the secret handshakes and decoder rings.

Now! I'm not beautiful or young but some women put their hands all over me the first time we meet...I open the door and hands are upon me. It happened yesterday. To be fair, plenty of women have no idea I exist (but thats why I think birds of a feather recognize each other).

 

[MichaelWest]

“Those people who recognise that imagination is reality's master, we call sages, and those who act upon it, we call artists.” ― Tom Robbins

Dominance is as much illusion and imagination as anything else in our reality. Looking in from the outside it may seem to be about the fiction, the wardrobe or some wink-wink nudge-nudge conceit for purposes of role-playing. Yet all that matters is how the people involved view it. If it is their reality than "true" Dominance exists with "true" Submission. Enjoy the art or not.

 

[TE999]

In any society there are leaders and there are followers, shepherds and sheep; most people are, by nature, sheep. Left to their own devices they plod along like a plow horse leaving naught but a furrow behind to show where they've been which is subsequently washed away in the rain. It is those who metaphorically kick over the traces who act as the dynamic to move a society forward. Without them you have societal stagnation and entropy.

So it is with human relationships. There may be a relatively equal division of earnings, labor or responsibilities, yet in the bedroom there is always dominance and submissiveness. It may be overt or covert, but it is always there; adventure versus acceptance. Each partner craves it for their own sexual and emotional fulfillment. It may very well have to do with the fact that unlike most other creatures we're in a perpetual state of rut and it eases, theoretically, the concept of perpetual mating.

 

[Stella_Omega]

But dont you 'know' when someone is dominant or submissive? I guess what I have trouble getting are the secret handshakes and decoder rings.

Well, yeah, socially. But in a sexual context, sometimes, you have to ask. And that's just so embarrassing, you know, if you get it wrong and also if someone say OMIGOD YOU PERVERT! which is not so much anymore, but in the 80's and 90's honestly felt dangerous.

Mostly, you know because you met them in a place where they wouldn't go if they weren't a perv like you. The internet has made everything easier.

Now! I'm not beautiful or young but some women put their hands all over me the first time we meet...I open the door and hands are upon me. It happened yesterday. To be fair, plenty of women have no idea I exist (but thats why I think birds of a feather recognize each other).

What I don't get is all the birds that hate it when birds of a different feather get together.

 

[MichaelWest]

Well, yeah, socially. But in a sexual context, sometimes, you have to ask. And that's just so embarrassing, you know, if you get it wrong and also if someone say OMIGOD YOU PERVERT!

I worried over that when I was younger. Although I am not obnoxious about it, everyone who knows me knows that I am the "pervert". I simply be honest, no decoder rings, no secret handshakes, no unspoken signs, just plain language and no shame.

 

[TxRad]

I worried over that when I was younger. Although I am not obnoxious about it, everyone who knows me knows that I am the "pervert". I simply be honest, no decoder rings, no secret handshakes, no unspoken signs, just plain language and no shame.

Years ago I went pro, so I'm a provert.

I'm not The Dirty Old Man for nothing.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

“Those people who recognise that imagination is reality's master, we call sages, and those who act upon it, we call artists.” ― Tom Robbins

Dominance is as much illusion and imagination as anything else in our reality. Looking in from the outside it may seem to be about the fiction, the wardrobe or some wink-wink nudge-nudge conceit for purposes of role-playing. Yet all that matters is how the people involved view it. If it is their reality than "true" Dominance exists with "true" Submission. Enjoy the art or not.

I differ with you because I had some experiences that stunned me when they happened. You think youre David Banner? till one day The Hulk breaks out, and folks who's normally step on you say, YOUR WAY RIGHT AWAY. Its an Arthur/Excalibur Moment when the sword comes out of the rock, and you had no idea ahead of time.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Well, yeah, socially. But in a sexual context, sometimes, you have to ask. And that's just so embarrassing, you know, if you get it wrong and also if someone say OMIGOD YOU PERVERT! which is not so much anymore, but in the 80's and 90's honestly felt dangerous.

Mostly, you know because you met them in a place where they wouldn't go if they weren't a perv like you. The internet has made everything easier. What I don't get is all the birds that hate it when birds of a different feather get together.

I feel your pain. Back in 1964 I supported Barry Goldwater, and almost everyone I knew didnt take it kindly; by 1968 the same people were glad to be rid of LBJ. Most of the time it takes people a spell to come around to your way of thinking, if youre on to something.

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't think there really is such a thing as a truly D/s relationship. Not beyond the short term, anyway. It's a common fantasy that's sort of like the fairy tale "happily ever after." It sounds good on paper, but doesn't endure the long run.

A truly dominant person, in my opinion, is someone with a problematic inferiority complex. Likewise, a truly submissive person is someone with control issues. They may placate one another for a while, but it'll never last. A real relationship is built on either constant compromise (the norm), or mutual consent and understanding (the rarity).

Show me a truly D/s relationship that has lasted forty years and I'll show you a couple in denial.

If you're talking 24/7 TPE type relationship I agree with all said.

But I know couples who are D/S but more along the lines of weekends or anytime in the bedroom and can "put it on hold" during part of their lives and they have lasted a long time.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If you're talking 24/7 TPE type relationship I agree with all said.

But I know couples who are D/S but more along the lines of weekends or anytime in the bedroom and can "put it on hold" during part of their lives and they have lasted a long time.

I know of one relationship that claims to be 24/7 TPE, -- that I believe, anyway. And the Mistress in that relationship has pretty much destroyed her standing within the larger community by being a crazy obnoxious selfish and did I say obnoxious? spoiled brat. Hardly an adult at all.

 

[lovecraft68]

I know of one relationship that claims to be 24/7 TPE, -- that I believe, anyway. And the Mistress in that relationship has pretty much destroyed her standing within the larger community by being a crazy obnoxious selfish and did I say obnoxious? spoiled brat. Hardly an adult at all.

I know a person here who was leaving her husband because he was not "into" d/s and she was going to move to another state to live with the guy who cyber collared her and was going to live in a TPE relationship.

Yup, I have high hopes on that one.

 

[slyc_willie]

I cant agree with you, becuz I know naturally dominant people, and they always attract naturally submissive people who trust them to do the right thing. That said, there are women in positions of authority who act tough but arent. I know this after several sessions before the mast where they were forced to cave when I was right, and refused to defer to them. There are real princes in the world.

But dominant people don't always have D/s lifestyles. We all know of people, either personally or through the media, who live or have lived with dominant people. Unfortunately, often that sense of dominance is expressed as an abusive relationship. It's one person controlling another through intimidation, compromising their personal economics, or repeated physical abuse. It's not a relationship in which both people agree that one is always in control and the other is always submissive, and they prefer it that way.

And I agree that there are numerous naturally dominant people in the world, and many more naturally submissive people. But most don't cross the line into actually engaging in the D/s lifestyle. The former have a natural ability to lead, the latter are content to follow.

If you're talking 24/7 TPE type relationship I agree with all said.

But I know couples who are D/S but more along the lines of weekends or anytime in the bedroom and can "put it on hold" during part of their lives and they have lasted a long time.

I know several couples like that, most whom I've met through Lit. In all cases but one, the woman plays the dominant role, but it is not something that is ongoing in their daily lives. Most of the time, they have rather "typical" relationships.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

But dominant people don't always have D/s lifestyles. We all know of people, either personally or through the media, who live or have lived with dominant people. Unfortunately, often that sense of dominance is expressed as an abusive relationship. It's one person controlling another through intimidation, compromising their personal economics, or repeated physical abuse. It's not a relationship in which both people agree that one is always in control and the other is always submissive, and they prefer it that way.

And I agree that there are numerous naturally dominant people in the world, and many more naturally submissive people. But most don't cross the line into actually engaging in the D/s lifestyle. The former have a natural ability to lead, the latter are content to follow.



I know several couples like that, most whom I've met through Lit. In all cases but one, the woman plays the dominant role, but it is not something that is ongoing in their daily lives. Most of the time, they have rather "typical" relationships.

Dont knock intimidation till youve tried it. My ER usta see assholes come thru every shift, and I hadda take them down and humiliate them the instant they touched a nurse or an orderly or other persons. I know how to do it, and it takes seconds to put a large man on the floor. Women and teens are another story! Theyll hurt you! I've known old women I wouldnt fuck with, and I was 30 years old!

Many of us IRL dominants also come with a lil bit of smarts and good sense, and we're not psychotic or outta control assholes. Because I'm dominant I'm not crushed by humiliation or embarrassment. Men like Geronimo and R.E.Lee are my ideals. There are stories of Lee accepting humiliation and embarrassment when he erred. Its right to do it.

I say real dominance is having competence, confidence, and caring.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I went over to the BDSM stories, looked at a few, and left.

Once again the tops are crap. I love the names these people use, most begin with SIR or MISTRESS. I bet I'm the only person at LIT who has a pedigree superior to Queen ELIZABETH's.

At my last intercourse with a BDSM chatroom I stole the Dom's sub and spent the weekend fucking her at a motel. By some accident of fate she happened to be in Florida, 100 miles away, so I drove over to see her. I love doing that to Caped Capons.

 

[Erosa007]

Lumping all relationships beneath one umbrella is unrealistic. Some vanilla relationships don't last 40 years, yet they are still vanilla. There are D/s relationships that are solid and have been in-tact for years. I have friends on who live nearby and on FetLife who have been living the D/s Lifestyle in real time. All types of relationships have challenges, abusers and abuses. D/s is not special in that regard. I think it is because people confuse "play time" with "daily living" or the TPE aspect. Control can be implemented in simple ways on a daily basis. Simple protocols remind a person of the relationship. Like every morning saying a particular mantra. Or performing a task before leaving home.
I have friends in TPE relationships who aren't into the pain elements and focus on the D/s aspects. BDSM is a wide umbrella with lots of components, and lots of people take what they need to fashion relationships that work for them.
Some men and women have lived beneath dominant influence for years, and flourished. Why is it so difficult to believe that a healthy, loving relationship actually occurs today?

 

[D_Lynn]

I would go as far as to say that D/s relationships can and are, often vanilla. My brother and his wife have been married for over 35 years now. Their relationship is as close to a TPE as you can get without all the leather, whips, and cages.

And if you happen to stumble on the Taken in Hand site, you realize that this is a group that is structured around the goal of real life D/s without the kink. This group believes that spankings are a vital part of maintaining that balance.

I see D/s relationships in staunchly religious households as well. A few weeks ago my husband had to stop me from gawking at a large family sitting at the next table. This was a family-style restaurant where the meat and vegetables are shared. The man at the head of the table was so obviously dominating over the wife and children, he stood up and served each one of them what he thought they should eat. Then led them in prayer (rather loudly) before sitting and taking the first bite which signaled that they were allowed to eat.
(God bless Texas and the big blingy bible belt it dons.)

Anyway, you get my point. D/s isn't just part of BDSM.