Dom Punishment

[cloud_leopard]

I have a friend who is in a training contract with a domme. He had some specific goals he wanted to work on, and they both agreed on a contract that included those goals, discussed contingencies for mistakes, and was limited in time.

The contract is a month and a half into a possible three months. So far, the domme has not worked on any of the goals my friend requested assistance with, refused to clarify things in the contract, has outright neglected any training at all, and when mistakes have been made on his part, she jumps on him, tears him down, and withholds punishment until she feels like giving it, even though the contract stated punishment would be immediate, and then the transgression forgiven.

Recently, at a party, he made some mistakes, following an intense session and a few drinks. The domme in question left the party and left him to his own devices, even though he was altered from both the session and the drink. After the party, he confessed his transgressions and she has chosen to wait four days before giving a punishment, and has only related a portion of what the punishment will be. Furthermore, she doesn't recognize that as the domme, she had a responsibility to take care of him and make sure he was ok to be on his own, and if she determined him not to be, she could have directed him to go home.

It seems she has set him up for failure, and this is not the first time. As soon as he mentions his concerns in that area, she goes to an extreme, makes herself into a victim and basically guilts him into saying things she wants to hear.

My question is, why are submissives the only ones subject to punishment? Why are dom/mes immune? They are just as capable of making mistakes, but are not held accountable for their own transgressions. This is a really painful thing for me to watch with my friend, and it is becoming nearly impossible for me to simply stand by in support of his continued upholding of the contract that the domme has broken on any number of occasions. I realize that just because she has broken the contract, and is a poor domme, does not mean that he should break the contract or be a poor sub, which he is not.

But, how are dom/mes held responsible and accountable for their actions?

Thanks, in advance, for any words of wisdom.

 

[rosco rathbone]

They definitely have ways of punishing us.

 

[Netzach]

You're getting one side of this story. Having had plenty of absurd levels of attention demanded of me, there are two sides to most.

That said, a crap Dominant loses submissives and reputation. You don't need to get hit with a stick or sent to bed without dinner for the concept of consequences to hold.

 

[cloud_leopard]

If I didn't know this woman, I would agree with only having one side. However, having spent a great deal of time with her, and calling her a close friend until about a month ago, I know only too well how her brain operates.

I can say confidently that the sub in question has not demanded anything absurd from her. He is lucky if he gets 15 minutes of face to face time with her each week. All of their communications are conducted via instant message while she is at work, and they only live about 10 minutes apart. She just never makes any time to spend with him. She's basically wanting a ready-made sub, willing to cater to her need for drama, and he isn't that kind of person. She isn't willing to put in the effort necessary to train him, even though that was the agreement.

 

[subish2009]

If I didn't know this woman, I would agree with only having one side. However, having spent a great deal of time with her, and calling her a close friend until about a month ago, I know only too well how her brain operates.

I can say confidently that the sub in question has not demanded anything absurd from her. He is lucky if he gets 15 minutes of face to face time with her each week. All of their communications are conducted via instant message while she is at work, and they only live about 10 minutes apart. She just never makes any time to spend with him. She's basically wanting a ready-made sub, willing to cater to her need for drama, and he isn't that kind of person. She isn't willing to put in the effort necessary to train him, even though that was the agreement.

I don't understand. Why is this an issue? Why is he still with her? She's broken the contract. This is no reflection of him. I'd think losing a sub, and reputation, would be punishment for her. Why is he not ending the relationship? He may be a sub, but that doesn't make him powerless. Am I missing something here?

 

[cloud_leopard]

He feels that since he has signed his name to the contract, despite her actions, he has a responsibility to carry through his end of the contract. He told me he has his reasons, and even though he hasn't shared all of them with me, I respect him, and his decision, although it doesn't make sense to me, either.

 

[ultramarineblue]

They definitely have ways of punishing us.

So I'm trying to think of all the ways subs can punish a dom and all I can come up with is being a smartass.

 

[Rayne_Clowd]

After reading this a couple of times my response is A) why is he still in the relationship/contract if it has been broken? B) a submissive is not powerless we choose who we give control to, if she is not someone worth giving his control to or that he can trust......why is he doing it?

 

[Rayne_Clowd]

He feels that since he has signed his name to the contract, despite her actions, he has a responsibility to carry through his end of the contract. He told me he has his reasons, and even though he hasn't shared all of them with me, I respect him, and his decision, although it doesn't make sense to me, either.

If he has his reasons, and feels he must stay regardless of her actions.......then there is simply nothing I can think of that he can do, you say he has talked to her about how he feels but that has not helped. So if he can not leave then his only option really is to put up with the outcome....he can not have his cake and eat it too.

Maybe someone else will have some insight or options but complaining about a situation and doing nothing to change it....just leaves you feeling continually unhappy no matter the situation.

 

[FurryFury]

Let's see if I have this right, he refuses to leave even though he is unhappy and unloading that on you.

You want to know why Dom/mes don't get punished? They do at times, perhaps not in ways someone who is unhappy and complaining can see. Or their good friend / shoulder can see.

 

[rosco rathbone]

So I'm trying to think of all the ways subs can punish a dom and all I can come up with is being a smartass.

I've never known a BDSM relationship to strip a female of her basic god-given ability to make a man's life hell if she wants to.

 

[Dearelliot]

Let me get this straight...this domme is a volunteer...not being paid...she volunteers her time without any compensation other than she gets to Dom him..is that correct?
Well if there is no compensation and she volunteers her time, I guess she gets to Dom him anyway she wants or not at all..if thats her decision. I dont see a problem here...you ask for something for nothing and complain that what you get isnt right?
Im no lawyer but I always believed in order for a contract to exist..the parties involved have to each offer something in return.

 

[cloud_leopard]

After reading this a couple of times my response is A) why is he still in the relationship/contract if it has been broken? B) a submissive is not powerless we choose who we give control to, if she is not someone worth giving his control to or that he can trust......why is he doing it?

He hasn't given me all of the reasons, but has assured me he has them. I suppose that's an opportunity for me to trust him.

Let's see if I have this right, he refuses to leave even though he is unhappy and unloading that on you.

You want to know why Dom/mes don't get punished? They do at times, perhaps not in ways someone who is unhappy and complaining can see. Or their good friend / shoulder can see.

He isn't unloading on me, and all he complains about is having his communication misunderstood. But, he and I are in an intimate relationship and I get to see firsthand the results of her mind games.

Let me get this straight...this domme is a volunteer...not being paid...she volunteers her time without any compensation other than she gets to Dom him..is that correct?
Well if there is no compensation and she volunteers her time, I guess she gets to Dom him anyway she wants or not at all..if thats her decision. I dont see a problem here...you ask for something for nothing and complain that what you get isnt right?
Im no lawyer but I always believed in order for a contract to exist..the parties involved have to each offer something in return.

She isn't a pro-domme. She offered to train him. The mutual exchange is that he is supposed to be dominated and she gets to do the dominating. What other compensation should there be? She doesn't even spend her time, though. She uses her work time to do whatever she wants to do, aside from the occasional social event, of which there has been two since the beginning of February. She more or less ignores him until he does something she feels is wrong. She has said she is the type of domme to tear someone down and then build them up. She has certainly done a good job of tearing him down, but has yet to engage in any building up.

 

[cloud_leopard]

More generally, though, I'm asking in what ways are dom/mes held accountable and responsibile for their actions. They punish their subs, but what happens to them when they mess up? What "punishments" do they get? It seems so one-sided, when both parties are capable of making mistakes. If there is no way for the dominant to be held accountable, how do they correct their mistakes? Seems like dominants would need just as much help correcting problems as a sub.

 

[Dearelliot]

Interesting...He is getting something from her, to be trained, for giving nothing in return other than "his desire" to be trained? and isnt happy, Well thats easy very simple my friend why doesnt he find another woman, this time a good woman, a woman willing to train him for free? ...Im wondering why she even talks to him?
Guys pay in excess of 200 bucks an hour to be trained...but then they get to have it their way....you know the golden rule..the one with the gold makes the rules. In this case the gold is between her legs...rather than in his pocket.

 

[chy_girl]

So I'm trying to think of all the ways subs can punish a dom and all I can come up with is being a smartass.

Or behave absolutely perfect with every Dom/me in the room except the one in contract with you.

Not saying it would be the best idea ever, but it would defiantly send the message.

Let me get this straight...this domme is a volunteer...not being paid...she volunteers her time without any compensation other than she gets to Dom him..is that correct?
Well if there is no compensation and she volunteers her time, I guess she gets to Dom him anyway she wants or not at all..if thats her decision. I dont see a problem here...you ask for something for nothing and complain that what you get isnt right?
Im no lawyer but I always believed in order for a contract to exist..the parties involved have to each offer something in return.

I'm sorry, why should he have to pay her for her to conduct herself with integrity as a PYL? I don't pay my PYL's and they conduct themselves with integrity, as do almost all of the PYL's I've met.

And the concept that her compensation can only be money and that she's volunteering... PYL's are getting an itch scratched too, even if it is a training contract.

 

[Dearelliot]

Please re read I never mentioned he should have to pay...but ... when someone volunteers to do somerthing it isnt a contractal agreement ...it isnt binding so the choice of behavior is hers and is his..The problem is he isnt satisfied, she seems quite happy...Read what others are saying...if your not happy find another woman.. but c'mon .the world isnt going to punish a woman for failing to meet some guys standards...if she has any desire to continue the relationship she either meets his standards or she understands he will walk away...so Why is he still there??? what planet do you people live on? My wife is rolling on the floor laughing...she thinks it has to be a joke...

 

[00Syd]

More generally, though, I'm asking in what ways are dom/mes held accountable and responsibile for their actions. They punish their subs, but what happens to them when they mess up? What "punishments" do they get? It seems so one-sided, when both parties are capable of making mistakes. If there is no way for the dominant to be held accountable, how do they correct their mistakes? Seems like dominants would need just as much help correcting problems as a sub.

What happens to anyone who treats their partner cruelly or unfairly, or is selfish in their relationship, or who refuses to compromise, or any other relationship-specific misdeed? Generally, nothing. Why should BDSM relationships be any different?

If there is any "punishment" it usually comes in the form of the wronged party leaving the relationship, but unfortunately, in this case, they are unwilling to do so for whatever reason. Specific to BDSM, as has been stated before, if someone acts badly within a relationship, it usually affects their reputation, which, within the scene, is pretty important.

But just like the rest of life, there is no judge and jury for relationship party fouls. Nobody is going haul anyone into court, and then punish them, for failing to keep up the agreed upon dish washing schedule in a marriage, and the same is true for BDSM. There is no BDSM court that doles out punishment to bad doms.

If you think that this woman needs to be punished for acting badly within this relationship, then advise your friend to leave her. That's really it. If he still refuses, then why continue being involved? It's their affair.

 

[cloud_leopard]

Please re read I never mentioned he should have to pay...but ... when someone volunteers to do somerthing it isnt a contractal agreement ...it isnt binding so the choice of behavior is hers and is his..The problem is he isnt satisfied, she seems quite happy...Read what others are saying...if your not happy find another woman.. but c'mon .the world isnt going to punish a woman for failing to meet some guys standards...if she has any desire to continue the relationship she either meets his standards or she understands he will walk away...so Why is he still there??? what planet do you people live on? My wife is rolling on the floor laughing...she thinks it has to be a joke...

I'm thrilled that someone is getting a laugh out of someone's discomfort. Why would this be a joke?

They are actually in a negotiated contract. They have both signed the contract, which is not uncommon in a D/s relationship. It's not that she is failing to meet his standards. She is failing to fulfill the terms of the contract. He is still there because he does have a sense of integrity and is hoping that some positive lessons will result out of this.

 

[cloud_leopard]

What happens to anyone who treats their partner cruelly or unfairly, or is selfish in their relationship, or who refuses to compromise, or any other relationship-specific misdeed? Generally, nothing. Why should BDSM relationships be any different?

If there is any "punishment" it usually comes in the form of the wronged party leaving the relationship, but unfortunately, in this case, they are unwilling to do so for whatever reason. Specific to BDSM, as has been stated before, if someone acts badly within a relationship, it usually affects their reputation, which, within the scene, is pretty important.

But just like the rest of life, there is no judge and jury for relationship party fouls. Nobody is going haul anyone into court, and then punish them, for failing to keep up the agreed upon dish washing schedule in a marriage, and the same is true for BDSM. There is no BDSM court that doles out punishment to bad doms.

If you think that this woman needs to be punished for acting badly within this relationship, then advise your friend to leave her. That's really it. If he still refuses, then why continue being involved? It's their affair.

This isn't really the same as a normal, vanilla relationship. This is a purely D/s situation.

And, as I stated before, my actual question revolved around what happens to dom/mes in terms of punishment. Subs are expected (when it has been negotiated) to accept punishments for their mistakes. It could be anything from a written assignment, to something physical, or privileges being denied, or whatever. Within the confines of the relationship, when the dominant makes a mistake, what are the consequences for them? I'm not talking about their status outside of the D/s relationship. I mean in it.

I guess I'm just being unclear about things.

Why do I continue being involved? As I stated before, I'm in an intimate relationship with the sub. I'm not going to walk away from him because he's having trouble with the dominant. I was looking for information about how the dominants take responsibility and accept accountability for their mistakes in the way that a sub accepts the same for his. That's all.

 

[cloud_leopard]

Interesting...He is getting something from her, to be trained, for giving nothing in return other than "his desire" to be trained? and isnt happy, Well thats easy very simple my friend why doesnt he find another woman, this time a good woman, a woman willing to train him for free? ...Im wondering why she even talks to him?
Guys pay in excess of 200 bucks an hour to be trained...but then they get to have it their way....you know the golden rule..the one with the gold makes the rules. In this case the gold is between her legs...rather than in his pocket.

Why would you assume that their D/s relationship involves sex? There is actually none involved in what they do.

 

[00Syd]

This isn't really the same as a normal, vanilla relationship. This is a purely D/s situation.

And, as I stated before, my actual question revolved around what happens to dom/mes in terms of punishment. Subs are expected (when it has been negotiated) to accept punishments for their mistakes. It could be anything from a written assignment, to something physical, or privileges being denied, or whatever. Within the confines of the relationship, when the dominant makes a mistake, what are the consequences for them? I'm not talking about their status outside of the D/s relationship. I mean in it.

I guess I'm just being unclear about things.

Why do I continue being involved? As I stated before, I'm in an intimate relationship with the sub. I'm not going to walk away from him because he's having trouble with the dominant. I was looking for information about how the dominants take responsibility and accept accountability for their mistakes in the way that a sub accepts the same for his. That's all.

Whether D/s or vanilla, a relationship is a relationship. They only play, with no romance? Still a relationship between two people, and one that has issues just like any other relationship. Many of the same rules still apply.

I don't think you understand the responses that you are getting here, and I'm not sure how I can put it any clearer.

When you say punishment, are you thinking of something equivalent to a punishment that a submissive might receive from their dominant? Like, the dom messes up and gets a spanking? Okay. So then, who would give them that spanking? Their submissive? Another dominant? Their mother?

You say that you are looking "for information about how the dominants take responsibility and accept accountability for their mistakes in the way that a sub accepts the same for his." How do you think that a sub accepts responsibility and accountability for their mistakes? Do you think that it is purely through physical punishment? Because, if so, I think that's why you would probably be confused.

The only way that anyone (doms, as well as subs, included) take responsibility for their mistakes is through personal reflection and acceptance. Do you think that that is something that is unique to submissives? Doms go through the same process, and it's a process that happens internally, no external force can make it happen.

And, of course, there are people who don't know how to do this at all, and who never take responsibility for their actions. These people can be submissive, dominant, vanilla, or anything in between. D/s roles have nothing to do with ones ability to be a responsible human being.

Does any of that make sense?

I think you are looking for some D/s specific way for a person to recognize their shortcomings and own up to them, but unfortunately, there is no such thing.

And if, after this, you are still looking for some sort of dom-specific punishment for fucking up in a relationship, then I don't think there is any helping you, because you need to understand that there isn't one.

 

[eastern sun]

They are actually in a negotiated contract. They have both signed the contract, which is not uncommon in a D/s relationship. It's not that she is failing to meet his standards. She is failing to fulfill the terms of the contract. He is still there because he does have a sense of integrity and is hoping that some positive lessons will result out of this.

If the contract actually includes written clauses on specific activities that she will provide for him, then he should take the contract to her and show it to her. If she refuses to honor the contract she signed, then he has a right (with integrity still in place) to refuse to honor the contract as well.

If there aren't specific clauses she is violating, and he wants to stay in the relationship, then he has to accept that she gets to define the interactions. Most submissives find fault in their first few relationships. I think that's because the reality usually doesn't match the fantasy. Instead of recognizing that fact, a lot of us complain about the treatment we're getting at the hands of our supposed-to-be fantasy dom/mes.

Nobody is mentioning the few drinks that the submissive had at the party which could mean he was too drunk to be of use to anyone. He has to take responsibility for his own actions.

 

[Dearelliot]

I apologize for assuming there may be sex involved in a D/s contract issue posted in a BDSM site. I didnt reread ..but if I mentioned sex my misatake.

 

[6PERV]

I have a friend who is in a training contract with a domme. He had some specific goals he wanted to work on, and they both agreed on a contract that included those goals, discussed contingencies for mistakes, and was limited in time.

The contract is a month and a half into a possible three months. So far, the domme has not worked on any of the goals my friend requested assistance with, refused to clarify things in the contract, has outright neglected any training at all, and when mistakes have been made on his part, she jumps on him, tears him down, and withholds punishment until she feels like giving it, even though the contract stated punishment would be immediate, and then the transgression forgiven.

Recently, at a party, he made some mistakes, following an intense session and a few drinks. The domme in question left the party and left him to his own devices, even though he was altered from both the session and the drink. After the party, he confessed his transgressions and she has chosen to wait four days before giving a punishment, and has only related a portion of what the punishment will be. Furthermore, she doesn't recognize that as the domme, she had a responsibility to take care of him and make sure he was ok to be on his own, and if she determined him not to be, she could have directed him to go home.

It seems she has set him up for failure, and this is not the first time. As soon as he mentions his concerns in that area, she goes to an extreme, makes herself into a victim and basically guilts him into saying things she wants to hear.

My question is, why are submissives the only ones subject to punishment? Why are dom/mes immune? They are just as capable of making mistakes, but are not held accountable for their own transgressions. This is a really painful thing for me to watch with my friend, and it is becoming nearly impossible for me to simply stand by in support of his continued upholding of the contract that the domme has broken on any number of occasions. I realize that just because she has broken the contract, and is a poor domme, does not mean that he should break the contract or be a poor sub, which he is not.

But, how are dom/mes held responsible and accountable for their actions?

Thanks, in advance, for any words of wisdom.

First, I'm new here, and this thread is my first post. But, I've bolded the areas I want to speak to. In the Purple area, at the top of the post, it seems there was a signed contract between the two parties. A contract that both agreed to means they both have a job to fulfill or they are breaking the contract.

Unless there is something submitted by each party to lose if they voided the contract, the only option for the other party to do is rightfully separate from the contract, because the other party has already voided their responsibility to it.

If your friend has decided not to separate, then he has no choice other than to take what the Domme gives him. Look at it from her side. Surely she knows that she's not fulfilled her side of the contract, and he's still hanging around. So, she knows she can pretty much do whatever she wants. She might be laughing to herself, thinking she's got him under her thumb. Although she's not doing what she signed up to do, he's still taking what she's giving him.

OK, for the part of the post I bolded and put into red, this is what I say to that. Doms and Dommes are not punished because they are always the top in the relationship. Just by their very name, Dom, Domme, Top or Master, you give them the power of control.

The submissive is the one being trained, or the one submitting to what the Dom decides. Yes, ultimately the submissive is in charge, and that person decides how much he/she will take of what the Dom is doing. But once that decision is made and the submissive decides the Dom is OK, the Dom really takes over control.

But, there is always an unwritten contract between two people in a D/s relationship or even in a scene. With safe words and common sense, the submissive still has the control for anything to stop, but if the relationship is to continue, the submissive gives control over to the Dom. And in this situation, there was a written contract.

If the Dom fails to fulfill his/her job as the submissive sees it, the only recourse for the submissive is to find another Dom. There is no other punishment for the Dom. It might seem strange, but that's just how it is. Unless someone more dominant comes along and picks a fight with the Dom, but most Doms aren't submissive, so someone else trying to dominate them won't affect them in the same way as it would a submissive. And when you look at it, even submissives will only submit to certain people. Just because someone is a Dom doesn't mean all submissives will cower to their demands. Maybe you should have a talk with your friend. Is he just infatuated with this Domme, or what? She's broken the contract. He should have no problem just walking away and finding someone more credible.