Dom Denial

[Earthgoddess]

I am curious, as a long time submissive,about folks who claim not to be dominant, despite clear indicators to the contrary. I have a dear friend, who clearly is a Daddy/Dom, acts like it, has the attitude, evokes the gut level responses,and is one of the sexiest men I have ever spent time with, who simply acts bemused when I tag him as a Dominant. It makes me crazy, and I am not sure why,maybe projecting my own acute want since he triggers a gut level response that makes my pupils dilate. And then I can't be sure he isn't enjoying my bemusement and confusion as he is always so calm and controlled and I am in many ways champing at the bit. I think perhaps he may be a Stealth Dom'er, and since we can not scene he just enjoys my wants and desires being so clearly displayed. I am seriously finding myself teetering around this guy, and have for years.
So I thought I just ask you all, is it possible for me to have a core meltdown reaction as a submissive to someone who isn't a Dom? I have a terrible crush on this guy, and would be throwing myself at him if I were allowed, and he simply makes me insane. So he smiles, and then there is this tone, slightly patronizing as he denies it, only admitting to seeing it as possible, but not intended.
Even typing this is making me a little weak in the knees, ok, so I have it bad.
And so I ask you all, has this ever happened to you? Met someone in Dom Denial or Sub Denial???

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Some of us who are dom have no appetite for subs. Subs arent appealing.

I have no idea what's going on with your guy, but were it me I'd likely act as he does.

 

[Earthgoddess]

hmmm

James,
What about a sub is not appealing? I am just curious how the dynamic works if the play partner is not submissive?
Thanks!
eg

 

[firefly03k64]

huh?

Maybe James is teasing you, like your friend it seems, who enjoys your frustration perhaps? Or maybe he finds other D's appealing.....I dunno, that statement confused me a bit too.

Yes, I have met similar men who trigger that in me. But fortunately for me, I have never had to have *daily* contact with someone who evokes such a response. At least no one who wouldn't spank me, if asked politely.

 

[Earthgoddess]

firefly

I am spending way too much time fantasizing about this man, and it doesn't help that we have lots of mundane regular contact. He can innocently chuckle or just give me a look and I become a stammering ninny. I truly feel like I am 17 all over again, and with our age difference(12 years) I keep hearing the Police song, "Don't Stand So Close To Me." It echoes in my bain and makes me wear a loopy grin at times.
He is a bit of a flirt and that makes it all better/worse since he'll discuss these topics and calmly lean forward as he gently innocently(yeah right) touches my skin..and deny his dominance up one side and down the other.

Oh my GOD adult crushes are the worst!!!
I am hoping james was teasing or maybe I simply misread it...who knows. I loved your comment about the spanking.

Thanks!

 

[firefly03k64]

oh how I know

I really, really, really sympathize. And personally I can't hear that song and its' driving movements, without nearly wrecking my car.

I have kind of been in your situation except that I didn't have to see the person regularly, which was my only saving grace.

But after contact or conversations(in which my brain would sort of short circuit) I'd go about my day bumping into, and dropping things, like a ninny.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

EARTHGODDESS

Dont get me wrong. I'm not saying subs are bad. Or ugly. Or any other pegorative. They simply dont appeal to me. I dont care for the obsessively devoted personality. I dont care for doormats. I get no thrill from hitting a woman. I couldnt care less about taming a woman. And I dont want to deal with anyone who thinks 'bitch' is their role.

Dom is how I am naturally. My partners tend to be very smart and competent and self sufficient. And they tend to be inhibited and anxious and dissatisfied sexually. They make excuses and mind-fuck themselves and lie their asses off about what they want. I take them to where they really want to go. But its not a game, no one wears leather, and we dont negotiate anything.

It's real simple: This is where I'm going, and you can come along or you can sit on the porch.

 

[chris0329]

I think what he's saying is that some people who are dominant, i.e. strong, confident, natural-born leaders, are attracted to people who can meet them head-on as equals.

 

[firefly03k64]

Yes.

Understood.

Thank you both, for clarifying.

 

[Recidiva]

I think the most under-recognized person is the emotional masochist. The woman or man who get off in some way by being a victim, being abused. They don't want to admit it though. It'd totally harsh their buzz to have to be responsible for the deal.

 

[Earthgoddess]

James

I identify as a sub, but outgrew the "woo woo"crap um, hmm at least a decade ago. I am strong willed, overly intelligent and outspoken as all hell. But I love to be taught to pleasure, to be allowed to open, and I do have a thing for Daddy play. My interest in this was not in the stylized Dom/sub roles but more in accepting oneself as a Dominant personality. This man is masculine, outspoken and very much a dominant although he does not see himself as such. In a way his refusal to identify as such makes me more curious.

This man makes me insane, so totally heavy into this crush its almost tangible. I would be writing his name in my binder if I sat behind him in chemistry class, oh my God, now I have that delicious image of him being the chemistry teacher and now I am all fluttery!

This is what I am talking about, his slow easy smile if I would reveal this, and his carefully controlled and modulated response. His easy chuckle and that eye contact, the soul piercing eye contact, that makes me weak.

I want so badly to have him teach me all sorts of things, teach me my new limits for pleasure, re-educate me on my ability to cum repeatedly.
Nutsy, clearly nutsy.

 

[FurryFury]

I am curious, as a long time submissive,about folks who claim not to be dominant, despite clear indicators to the contrary. I have a dear friend, who clearly is a Daddy/Dom, acts like it, has the attitude, evokes the gut level responses,and is one of the sexiest men I have ever spent time with, who simply acts bemused when I tag him as a Dominant. It makes me crazy, and I am not sure why,maybe projecting my own acute want since he triggers a gut level response that makes my pupils dilate.

And then I can't be sure he isn't enjoying my bemusement and confusion as he is always so calm and controlled and I am in many ways champing at the bit. I think perhaps he may be a Stealth Dom'er, and since we can not scene he just enjoys my wants and desires being so clearly displayed. I am seriously finding myself teetering around this guy, and have for years.

So I thought I just ask you all, is it possible for me to have a core meltdown reaction as a submissive to someone who isn't a Dom? I have a terrible crush on this guy, and would be throwing myself at him if I were allowed, and he simply makes me insane. So he smiles, and then there is this tone, slightly patronizing as he denies it, only admitting to seeing it as possible, but not intended.

Even typing this is making me a little weak in the knees, ok, so I have it bad.
And so I ask you all, has this ever happened to you? Met someone in Dom Denial or Sub Denial???

Of course it's possible to be attracted to someone who A) Is either enjoying playing you this way, B) Does not see themselves as a Dom or C) Is not a Dom at all.

I see my husband as a Dom but does that make HIM feel like he is one, nope.

As for self titled "Dom's" not being attracted to subs because they are doormats, the description doormat is not one I'd use for any of the subs I know in RL. This shows a fundamental lack of real world knowledge in both D/s and BDSM.

People who want to be called Doms but are not attracted to subs are likely to be abusers rather than Doms. You see with a sub things are consensual. With abusers and rapists things are not.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

EARTHGODDESS

Some men dont think of themselves as dominant because its how they are naturally. I never thought of me that way until a few years ago. I had some strange experiences happen, especially in Vietnam, where leadership was required immediately (rank means shit when the world is going to hell all around you...men want a leader).

He sounds like a real dom. My guess is he doesnt know it.

A piece of advice. Sometimes you have to stick their nose in it to stimulate the appetite. Set it up. Bewitch, bother, and bewilder him. And pull his nose right in to where it needs to be.

Doms are like Seabiscuit was in the beginning. Its there in their blood, but you just gotta guide them a little.

 

[firefly03k64]

As for self titled "Dom's" not being attracted to subs because they are doormats, the description doormat is not one I'd use for any of the subs I know in RL. This shows a fundamental lack of real world knowledge in both D/s and BDSM

Yes, I agree. Nor would I.

I think there are plenty of threads to be read on the "sub does not equal doormat," (I'd like to think this wasn't an issue at all) debate on the bdsm board for gooodness sake. And as always opinions are personal.

Maybe, eg, you want to post on bdsm talk?

 

[Earthgoddess]

Seabiscuit

Oh yes I like that idea!
I posted it here to get a more balanced view, I felt there are folks who may never post there over in BDSM world who might have insight here.

But I do like the insight, now I just wish I could act on this, but I am not cleared to play like this. Hubby would not approve of any more than the flirting I am doing.
Long drawn out sigh, very long and drawn out.

 

[thebarber69]

Hello Earthgoddess, well maybe can put my 2 cents worth in here, and maybe it will be just the ranting of a loon. But being a doormat is not one of the things that should be done by a sub. The Master depending on his type of style will usually protect his sub, and be one to push her limits, but to do it in a way that she will get to her higher limits as well.

Did you ever think that maybe he is messing with your mind a bit, he might know what he is doing, just so to put you off guard a bit. And the age doesn’t matter, heck it’s only a number. Some do take on younger subs, heck being in my mid fifties I have had many 20ish ones to train, and have done well at it, it’s the respect, and honor that you give you Master that will make him proud of him. Now if he is one, maybe you just got to do that push, but maybe you need to look deeper in you, if it’s just a crush that you have or is it something else?

There has been much wise thought put in here both from JAMESBJOHNSON, FurryFury, and firefly03k64, have made all good points, but maybe you have to isolate that wanting that you have rolling threw your body and think with the big head on your shoulders, and not the little head in the man in the boat. And never think of yourself as that doormat, your way more than that. I will take my leave, and head back to my halls to lurk. Have a good one.

 

[JMohegan]

Hubby would not approve of any more than the flirting I am doing.

This could be your answer right here.

I've had married women come on to me, and I rebuff them every time.

From both an ethical standpoint and as a practical matter (recognizing the limitations on what a married woman could provide), I am simply not interested.

 

[FurryFury]

I know a Dom who is constantly being flirted with and pressured by a married woman. Does he want to come out to them as a Dom? No.

Does he want to ruin his friendship with this couple by Dom-ing the wife? No.

I think she is quite a brat and very unwise but hey, people are people. Some night it could lead to a very lovely moment that everyone soon regrets.

 

[Earthgoddess]

Doormat

I never,ever said anything about a doormat, I don't think I would ever consent to that type of treatment at all either. I think the doormat comment has been misapplied to me, I am way too bossy to allow that BS. I am also a victim of sexual assault so I do not play those victim games. Nor am I comfortable with anyone who does, again outgrew the damage inflicters and pain seekers long,long ago.
Now wench and milord that's another story, and that is a fun roleplay, not a lifestyle choice.

I think also that maybe I am safe for him, since I am married and he knows my hubby considers himself to be my Dom, so perhaps he is stretching his own wings with that knowledge. He is not coming into me,this is a major crush on my part and he is reveling in it a tad, maybe a scoosh. I am not seeking an affair without my hubby's consent, my hubby knows I am suffering a massive crush attack. And flirting is allowed, actually with this individual it has been encouraged.

But all that is secondary, my intention was to explore the title of Dom, and why some who clearly could take and claim it do not, depsite their actions, words and deeds.

I thank all who have replied so far, it is fascinating to me to see so many different opinions.

 

[Chicklet]

Most people peg me as a Top because of my attitude and personality, but in the bedroom I am submissive, and I identify as submissive.

What we see on the outside does not always coincide with how we identify inside. Maybe his personality fits what you typically associate with a daddy dom, but he just doesn't swing that way?

 

[Quint]

The difference between

"I am a person who is most satisfied in a position of power over another"

v.

"I am a Dominant"

is huge. From my personal experience, slapping a label like "I am a Dominant/submissive" on a person is an invitation to roleplay and a shutdown on self-actualization. The sexiest men I know are dominant, but they do not call themselves Dominants. They know their sum is more than that part. It may be that the male in question is the same and is happy with who he is without needing to define (and limit) himself.

 

[priapiscean]

Most people peg me as a Top because of my attitude and personality, but in the bedroom I am submissive, and I identify as submissive.

What we see on the outside does not always coincide with how we identify inside. Maybe his personality fits what you typically associate with a daddy dom, but he just doesn't swing that way?

In fact, Chicklet, your "outside the bedroom" personality is totally in keeping with how submissives I know behave. Read "The Acid Test" (http://www.bdsmcentral.com/bdsm/acidtest.htm ) which describes loosely the reasons subs may be subs. Surrender in the bedroom is the sweet surrender that is the marked difference to your usual pattern of operation (which is why those who observe you casually may assume you're a Top in the boudoir).

This is, of course, my $0.02

 

[Chicklet]

The difference between

"I am a person who is most satisfied in a position of power over another"

v.

"I am a Dominant"

is huge. From my personal experience, slapping a label like "I am a Dominant/submissive" on a person is an invitation to roleplay and a shutdown on self-actualization. The sexiest men I know are dominant, but they do not call themselves Dominants. They know their sum is more than that part. It may be that the male in question is the same and is happy with who he is without needing to define (and limit) himself.

beautiful = )

 

[Earthgoddess]

Yes

Chicklet and Quint, many thanks for your insight.

That is what I am looking for, especially as this man has begun to challenge my definition of submissive self, since he sees a level of dominance within my urge to submit. He sees that as a way to control, and maintain control and thinks submission might be too easy for me. Not a true challenge, not truly asking me to give. So now he has me questioning a trait I have acknowledged and accepted for almost 25 years.

Interestingly enough most folks see me as a Top, and the Doms who I have subbed to all found me very difficult(bossy,sassy,etc.) My own beloved husband even finds me overly difficult at times, outside of the bedroom. I feel as though my purest submission is with him, my husband, and it is easy but only in the bedroom. I rarely submit, give an inch or let it go outside of those bedroom doors.

This man, my crush, makes me reel, makes me question all and everything, and heis sweet, gentle,and so kind. Yet sometimes he'll push me, push me to re-consider, push me to address something in the most subtle ways. When he sees my frustration, my verbal submission hovering he always has the most definite smile.

So perhaps this man does not want a label, maybe he does not see the world in terms of submission/domination.
Maybe through defining him I thought I could explain this intense and almost un-manageable crush. I am so shocked at the fact that at 40 I actually giggle like a maniac and blush around him. All the time, like I was a 14 year old, I even stammer.

So the crush continues unabated and my need to define him has only made me question all I had accepted. but this is a journey, a voyage and my need to know is getting me nowhere fast. I know there is a reason my crush is so deep, so intense. I just would love to have a nice definition so then I could let go,i.e. if he's a dom and I am a sub of course it would explain some of it.

If I am woozy and blushing and hoping he's watching me then I am simply a goofus. if I stammer and lose focus when he stares at me as I fumble for the correct words, then I am a ninny.
And if I gasp a tiny bit when he stands behind me, then I am a woo-woo.
I liked being a highly responsive sub better...just terminology wise at least.

The crush has been bad for years but with his admitted intrigue at my crush it got worse, much worse. Maybe confession of crush only works when the other party lets you down easily instead of being delighted.
Arrrggghhhhh!!!

I guess at my age, with my life stressers, it is a fine and delicious thing to lose myself in a situation that does not impact my marriage in any negative way, but makes me feel more sensual, more sexy and younger!
All this is made a bit nicer since my hubby has a major crush of his own in Iraq, so he too is enjoying the gentle push and pull of a crush. And we have the ability to talk about it and keep an open dialogue. In a way this crush makes the deployment easier, actually I should say the crushes make it easier to be so far apart.

So perhaps I'll just,for once, enjoy this like riding a wave. And instead of struggling to define, manage and compartmentalize I shall enjoy, relax and stop analyzing. And then I shall write his name with a sharpie in my chemistry binder...over and over and over again. In big curly girly letters, during study hall, or maybe in the lunch room-ahhhh to be a ninth grader again in so many way,my thanks again to all!

 

[Recidiva]

The difference between

"I am a person who is most satisfied in a position of power over another"

v.

"I am a Dominant"

is huge. From my personal experience, slapping a label like "I am a Dominant/submissive" on a person is an invitation to roleplay and a shutdown on self-actualization. The sexiest men I know are dominant, but they do not call themselves Dominants. They know their sum is more than that part. It may be that the male in question is the same and is happy with who he is without needing to define (and limit) himself.

Exactly. Preferring to not suit a category, suits this personality.