Dog training and obeidience

[lost5pints]

Well I have a dilemma brewing at home.....as you all know we have a 10 day old baby and a 4yo at home......we also have a black lab/pitbull mix that is about 1yo......over the last couple of weeks(since just before the kid was born) the dog has gotten really teritorial with my 4yo.....he has started snapping at him.....My 4yo is still learning the things hes not supposed to due with the dog(i.e. pull his tail, use as a step stool.etc).....the last couple of snaps have been unprovoked though.....up until now we have not had any problems......he is a really smart dog but due to work and pregnancy issues we havn't been able to get him into training......my question is it too late to train him......otherwise i am going to have to find a new owner with no small children around......I can't in good conscience go overseas for a year with a dog that could be a danger to my family.......any info would help....im going to call the base animal warden to find out some info from an experienced professional......

 

[Weird Harold]

we also have a black lab/pitbull mix that is about 1yo... my question is it too late to train him......otherwise i am going to have to find a new owner with no small children around...

I don't think it's to late to train your dog, but I don't think you have time before your deplyoment to complete the traning.

Untrained Pitbulls and Pitbull mixes can be unpredictable. I think your best option is to find this dog a new home and wait until you get back to replace it.

 

[woodcarverII]

Well I have a dilemma brewing at home.....as you all know we have a 10 day old baby and a 4yo at home......we also have a black lab/pitbull mix that is about 1yo......over the last couple of weeks(since just before the kid was born) the dog has gotten really teritorial with my 4yo.....he has started snapping at him.....My 4yo is still learning the things hes not supposed to due with the dog(i.e. pull his tail, use as a step stool.etc).....the last couple of snaps have been unprovoked though.....up until now we have not had any problems......he is a really smart dog but due to work and pregnancy issues we havn't been able to get him into training......my question is it too late to train him......otherwise i am going to have to find a new owner with no small children around......I can't in good conscience go overseas for a year with a dog that could be a danger to my family.......any info would help....im going to call the base animal warden to find out some info from an experienced professional......

you need to try crate training. It will give the dog a time out while observing the family dynamics. Be sure and put the crate in a igh traffic area and continuously talk to the dog.

PetSmart has some great information on this.

 

[warrior queen]

get rid of the dog, right now.

there is absolutely no question as to which is more important, and your son will have NO CHANCE against a dog that size if the dog decides to go serious....

if you have EVER seen the results of a dog attack on a small child, this would never have been a question!
(i've been unfortunate enough to see a few, as i volunteer on the ambulances, and believe me, the damage that can be done is absolutely horrendous!)

there will come a moment - and that's all it takes - when your attention is not there, and then you, and your child, will forever have the scars to remember that moment.

get rid of the dog.

 

[turboguy]

We own 4 dogs.....as of now.....Our kids......Great companions, love them all dearly.

We are, in a few months, going to attempt having a child.

One of our dogs is a Lab. He is great, and great with "older' kids.....7-8 range. He has yet to be around younger, "babies".

As for the Pit bull in your dog.....I will have to agree, knowing a few friends that have Pits.......They can be unpredictable. I would try your hardest to find a new home for the dog.

I say this fromt he bottom of my heart....and do not mean to sound heartless or un-emotinal........Our dogs are our life. However, If we do have a kid......The kid will be our life, and if the dogs can not adjust.....they will be gone. I would never hurt my dogs, or just abandon them.....but a human being is much more precious then a dog.

If you can not find a new home, or for some reason can not get rid of it without doing a "shelter"..........Please, Please.......look into a "no Kill" facility. Check their background, and such. I know of one great facility in Utah....called "Best Friends"......A sure fire 'no Kill" facitlity.

You owe it to your kids...to get rid of the dog.....but on the same hand.....you owe it to your previous best friend.....the dog.......to secure it in life for a happy life til it passes of age/health.

Hope it helps ya out....I hope and pray that we do not have to deal with this...as our "dogs/kids" are family....and I would like it to stay that way.


T

 

[Spenser41]

GOOD LORD!

Man,
You need to get rid of that dog ASAP!
The first sign that is was snapping for no reason at all should have told you this is not a safe animal to have around.
I know labs very well as I am a breeder for Golden Retrievers and the dogs are very simular in temperment.
However a pit bull, no matter how sweet it is as a pup, as it gets older, can be very dangerous. Your family comes first and your childs safety.
I would take it to the pound TODAY!

 

[Missingmeds]

Lost, first understand that the Pitbull is not unpredictable. What he is doing is establishing the order of his pack as a new member,(who's health and well being are of the upper most importance) has arrived.

I agree that the dog needs to find a new home as he now acting as the alpha male in his pack. Normally that should be you and your wife. He needs a home that understands pitbulls and the way that they differ from most other breeds.

Look in your area for a pit bull rescue. Or if you will pm me your location, I will try to find one for you.

Okay edited to do a duh. The following link will give you some options on finding the dog a new home. There are several in your area and the website itself is very informative. Just scroll down the page to your state and then check out the different places.

Click here

 

[Bobmi357]

Its not too late to train the dog. BUT until the dog is trained you run the risk of bite injuries to your 4yr old.

I'm not a dog person, so I'd dump it. There are dog lovers here that will tell you to keep it and get it trained etc. Thats probably good advice from someone that can't see the advantages of cats. Me however, I'd give it away, put it in a shelter etc. The 4yr old is by far more important than any dog no matter what you feel for the dog. And given a choice between the two the dog loses everytime.

 

[Odin55]

I have trained dogs for the last 15 years and for the last 6 years full time proffesional, and this is the type of problem that I get called out for on a regular basis. First I want to say the the advice that I can give you is of a general nature and that every situtation and every dog is different. First of all you can still train a dog of this age, I have train dogs 11 years old. Second the breed of the dog is not the main factor for aggression, Pitbull are no more likely to be aggressive than Toy Poodles(I can't remember having to train a pitbull for aggression). Granted however if a Pitbull does attack someone it is capable of doing a lot more damage then a toy poodle.

Dogs with this problem can be trained out of it, but I want to say that there is no quick fix. You are going to have to spend time training the dog. You are going to have to keep the dog under supervision at all times when it is around your children and make sure that the kids can not get near the dog when an adult is not arround. I know that these things can be difficult to do with a young family, time not being plentiful with a small baby arround.

If you want to go ahead with trianing let me know and I can point you in the right direction to find a good dog trainer in your area that can show you what to do.

 

[Mskey]

Please, please, please get rid of that dog ASAP!!


I want to preface what I am about to say by stating that I in no way shape or form advocate the abuse of any animal, and I deeply regret the actions that I took but my child was in danger....
that said-

My mother in law adopted a mixed breed dog from the pound a few years back. While the animal had never really been " friendly" with anyone other then my MIL I had never seen any hostility from it. It simply steered clear of my oldest daughter. When our middle child was born she was used to dealing with our family dog, a sturdy sweet old greyhoundmix who slept under her crib and woke me up if she whimpered. As she reached crawling age we began to notice that when she was at my MIL's the dog would snap or growl at her. We assumed like you that she was simply doing something wrong to the animal. OUR dog didn't care if she used his tail to " pull up", or if she picked up bits of dog food out of his bowl, but she had yet to learn that all dogs were not so easy going. I watched her around the dog and began to notice that he would snap at her for no reason whatsoever, a few times those snaps connected and he nipped at her hands. We reprimanded the dog at set to training him but the snapping and growling continued, in fact they got even worse. Finally one day our middle child was totering through the house, minding her own business, not even near the dog and as she walked past my MIL the dog knocked her down and lunged at her teeth bared and grabbed hold of her arm.
I quickly planted my foot in the animals side and kicked at it until he let her go. Thankfully he didn't hurt her beyond a few cuts and bite marks but the point is that if we had not been in the exact same room he could have done some serious damage. I would hate to think of your little one getting hurt for doing nothing more then walking thru his own house.
A vet told us that there was simply something about our daughter that made the dog feel threatened and as such he would be totally unpredictable around her. My MIL refused to get rid of it, but now we have to lock it up whenever the kids are over.

Better to get rid of the animal, then risk the safety of your children.

 

[SnoopDog]

Though not all dogs are mean (look a bit to the left, you'll se an avatar....) I would also recommend to lose the dog. I love dogs and I know for a fact that usually even pitbulls can be the most lovely creatures on earth, but I also know that they might behave well 364 days of the year and then this one day, be pretty unpredictable. And this is a thing that might not be too suitable for small babies or children. So as hard as this might be I'd say with your off-spring you couldn't be too careful. Then again, with some professional help by people who know dogs for a living you might pull it off. Better go and ask some dog-trainers or whatever if you're not sure
Snoopy, arf, arf

 

[deaflepperd]

I will completely agree with the below post. My gf is an EMT and has seen the damage, and has heard the same words echo in each case from the parents "We never thought the dog would do that!!"
In one instance, the child died of blood loss before they reached him.
Please find a childless home for the animal!! Snapping could only be the tip of the iceberg.
Seriously sit down and think of what life will be like when your child is dead.
Please.

get rid of the dog, right now.

there is absolutely no question as to which is more important, and your son will have NO CHANCE against a dog that size if the dog decides to go serious....

if you have EVER seen the results of a dog attack on a small child, this would never have been a question!
(i've been unfortunate enough to see a few, as i volunteer on the ambulances, and believe me, the damage that can be done is absolutely horrendous!)

there will come a moment - and that's all it takes - when your attention is not there, and then you, and your child, will forever have the scars to remember that moment.

get rid of the dog.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

I'm trying really hard to restrain myself here and not flame.

This REALLY burns me up. How can you even Consider keeping this dog? And what made you decide to get a dog like this when you had a 3 year old? (This size, breed, etc.) And then not Train it? You knew what 3 year olds were like. What were you Thinking?

Turboguy referred to the dog as your previous best friend. You've had the dog for a Year. You've had your son for 4 years. Where are your loyalties, man?

I am not a dog person. And do you know why? Because my parents got a dog when I was 3 and kept it despite its snapping at me. They didn't get rid of it until it bit my dad.
You wouldn't have been able to tell at the time but I'd already developed a dog phobia. To Little dogs, like that one. Big dogs don't scare me as much because I wasn't terrorized by one as a small helpless child.

As to predictability, a long time ago, I bought my bf (with whom I lived -- see Im not a dog-hater, so no flaming me on that one) the german shepherd pup he wanted for his birthday. A sweet dog. Then one day, I came home from work and opened the front door. Snarling, she lunged for my throat. That is the first and last time I ever tried to hurt an animal. If I'd been a small child, I'd be badly scarred or dead now. What the hell are you thinking?

Snoopdog said: "Then again, with some professional help by people who know dogs for a living you might pull it off." MIGHT. Is that a Might you can live with? How about your child's mother?

All I can say is, and here comes the flame, if you can live with taking that chance and don't get lucky, I'd like to speak as a witness at your trial when you try to stand there and say to the judge, 'I didn't know, I never thought... I'm innocent of these child endangerment charges.' phooey. Take a chance on your own neck, not your kids. He (they) doesn't have a choice. You do.

 

[SnoopDog]

I'm trying really hard to restrain myself here and not flame.

This REALLY burns me up. How can you even Consider keeping this dog? And what made you decide to get a dog like this when you had a 3 year old? (This size, breed, etc.) And then not Train it? You knew what 3 year olds were like. What were you Thinking?

Turboguy referred to the dog as your previous best friend. You've had the dog for a Year. You've had your son for 4 years. Where are your loyalties, man?

I am not a dog person. And do you know why? Because my idiot parents got a dog when I was 3 and kept it despite its snapping at me. They didn't get rid of it until it bit my dad.
You wouldn't have been able to tell at the time but I'd already developed a dog phobia. To Little dogs, like that one. Big dogs don't scare me as much because I wasn't terrorized by one as a small helpless child.

As to predictability, a long time ago, I bought my bf (with whom I lived -- see Im not a dog-hater, so no flaming me on that one) the german shepherd pup he wanted for his birthday. A sweet dog. Then one day, I came home from work and opened the front door. Snarling, she lunged for my throat. That is the first and last time I ever tried to hurt an animal. If I'd been a small child, I'd be badly scarred or dead now. What the hell are you thinking?

Snoopdog said: "Then again, with some professional help by people who know dogs for a living you might pull it off." MIGHT. Is that a Might you can live with? How about your child's mother?

All I can say is, and here comes the flame, if you can live with taking that chance and don't get lucky, I'd like to speak as a witness at your trial when you try to stand there and say to the judge, 'I didn't know, I never thought... I'm innocent of these child endangerment charges.' phooey. Take a chance on your own neck, not your kids. He (they) doesn't have a choice. You do.

Well I just didn't want to be the one to say 'Get rid of the dog.' Becuase I know some people really bond with their pets in a big way. So didn't want to be that cruel. But I totally agree with you. I for myself wouldn't keep the dog.
(In the end there's only place for one dog in my kennel and I have gotten used to it, lol)
Snoopy

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Oh sweetie (or should that be sweet Pup?) I really wasn't meaning to attack you, or your post. I could tell you were advising him to be careful and wouldn't have kept the dog yourself. That word Might was just so clearly evident in so many of the 'Maybe you can keep the dog' posts, that i wanted to highlight it so he would have to recognize a maybe when he saw one and think about what it really means. Sorry if I stepped on your paws Not intended that way at all.

As to being cruel, though, i really am of the school that says that sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

 

[SnoopDog]

Oh sweetie (or should that be sweet Pup?) I really wasn't meaning to attack you, or your post. I could tell you were advising him to be careful and wouldn't have kept the dog yourself. That word Might was just so clearly evident in so many of the 'Maybe you can keep the dog' posts, that i wanted to highlight it so he would have to recognize a maybe when he saw one and think about what it really means. Sorry if I stepped on your paws Not intended that way at all.

As to being cruel, though, i really am of the school that says that sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

Well, no offense taken. You missed the paws by some inches.
Snoopy, woof-woof

 

[SexyChele]

I am a "dog person." I haven't met a breed of dog that I didn't like, and have gotten along with every dog I've met. And I understand the pain if one is bonded to a dog and, for whatever reason, the animal needs to go. It can rip your heart out.

That being said...

You can train a dog at any age. They are smart that way. However, training takes a lot of effort and time. You absolutely have to set times to work with the dog on a consistent basis. I doubt most families with young children have that time and energy. And if you are to be deployed shortly, I am almost certain your wife will not have anywhere near the time or energy to exert in this endeavor.

Dogs are pack animals, and subscribe to a certain hierarchy within the pack. While the dog may have no problems accepting you or or wife as "alpha" and "beta" dogs, when it comes to the kidlets, the dog is trying to place itself above them to acheive higher rank within the pack, and thereby get "closer" to the "alpha" and "beta" dogs. Yeah, ya gotta think like a dog when you have them. This is why young children are often the object of unprovoked attacks. It really isn't the dog's fault - they are an animal and it is their nature.

My suggestion? Find a some one who is willing to take the dog. If none are available, please do not just dump it at the pound. Large dogs seldom find homes, and a dog with a pitbull mix is even more assured of being put down. Take to a rescue organization who will try to place it. Just because this dog is displaying agressive behavior towards your child, doesn't mean its a bad dog overall. With the right person or family, this dog may very well thrive. He's just not a good fit for your family at this time.

Oh, and even though I mentioned I was a dog lover? The only breed that scares the beejezus out of me are.......pitbulls. Or mixes thereof. They are simply not predictable, and that makes me nervous. And a nervous person can provoke an attack. Just a couple of weeks ago there was a woman not far from where I live who was feeding her grandson's dog - a pitbull. The dog lived with her, and had for quite some time. Never showed agression towards her. Then, one day as she was feeding him, he attacked her. She's 91 years old, and suffered lacerations to her face and upper body. She also had to have both arms amputated below the elbow. The dog was destroyed. A child of 4? Would never stand a chance.

Do yourself, your family, and the dog a favor: find it a new home.

 

[Missingmeds]

In any case, lost5pints, I would like to know what you do.

 

[peachykeen]

I love dogs. But your first responsibility is to your children.

Think about it: could you live with yourself if anything happened to your children that you know you could have prevented?

 

[lost5pints]

okay a little bit moe background information.....we have only had the dog since september......We rescued him from the base kennel a few days before he was going to ship of to a kill shelter where he would have been put down if they did not find an owner.....We obtained the dog for security purposes and companionship.....I work long hours for the security and my wife isn't compfortable with weapons(me either until my children are old enough to be taught).....My love is a sufferer of an anxioty disorder and having the dog help's her get over alot of her fears while im away.....we have a relative in mind with property that we will give the pup too if we decide that he needs to go.....until we figure out what were going to due he will spend alot more time in his crate.....Ill be able to talk to the animal warden in the morning......plus my wife has a friend in CA who trains dogs for a living.....either way im going to take care of my family first.....just have to find the wife another dog before I leave......have a good day and thank you all for your opinions.....L5P's

 

[millieteases]

Tough call, lots of opinions. Having animal trainers in the family and a close friend who breeds pit bulls I have lots of mixed emotions about this.

For you, this dog needs to be placed with a family with the time and patience to train it properly. Well-bred pits tend to be very loyal to their families - but have to be very well trained. The aren't always tolerant of outsiders. Pit mixes add uncertainty - many labs may be goofy friendly dogs, but you never know.

With this dog showing aggression, and small children, it's just not worth the risk. Older dogs can be trained, but like many things, its just as much training yourself as it is training the animal - and its sounds like you've got lots more stuff on your plate than learning to train and supervise this dog right now.

I'm also friends with someone with an anxiety disorder who has used her dogs for many years for companionship and protection - not quite service animals - (and there are psychiatric service dogs these days for people with anxiety disorders - you just have to find a therapist who is open to the idea or experienced with it) - but pretty close. She's had good luck with boxers and with terrier crosses. The boxers tend to be very lively and need space and time to get their energies out. They are also big enough to get people's attention as far as protection goes. The terrier crosses have been lively and intelligent - her latest is most likely a dachshund -Cairn terrier cross - looks like a long-legged wire haired miniature dachshund. Since they're smaller they're easier for the cuddle, sit-next-to-you-on-sofa stuff. Since she grew up with animals, she's frequently had both a boxer and a terrier at the same time, as well as a cat or two, and she takes the boxer with her most places for the companionship and the protection. In all cases, one of the first things she does when she gets a new dog is to go to an obedience class or two with the dog. There are lots of good classes out there. She swears by Petsmart, but she really likes the trainer at our local one. She says the he classes aren't too expensive, the people in them are usually pretty nice, and the system they use works pretty well.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

 

[sunfox]

okay a little bit moe background information.....we have only had the dog since september......We rescued him from the base kennel a few days before he was going to ship of to a kill shelter where he would have been put down if they did not find an owner.....We obtained the dog for security purposes and companionship.....I work long hours for the security and my wife isn't compfortable with weapons(me either until my children are old enough to be taught).....My love is a sufferer of an anxioty disorder and having the dog help's her get over alot of her fears while im away.....we have a relative in mind with property that we will give the pup too if we decide that he needs to go.....until we figure out what were going to due he will spend alot more time in his crate.....Ill be able to talk to the animal warden in the morning......plus my wife has a friend in CA who trains dogs for a living.....either way im going to take care of my family first.....just have to find the wife another dog before I leave......have a good day and thank you all for your opinions.....L5P's

I am a dog trainer, educated in obedience, agility, tracking, breeding, conformation, and protection. I have a german shepherd that is protection trained, and just brought home a new puppy... because I'm insane, but that's a story for another time. But I also have a 16 month old, and not only is the shepherd immensely patient with her, he protects her.

A well raised and socialized dog can be such a huge asset to a family with children. But a shelter dog often has issues from its previous life that you can't be aware of, and so they can be a poor choice for a home with kids. Particularly dogs of the breeds that are most often used for fighting and attack work. (I say attack instead of protection because there is a huge difference between a junkyard dog on a chain, and a highly trained protection dog.)

This dog could have been abused, mistreated, not socialized, and who knows what else before you got him, and while that's not his fault, it renders him unsuitable for a companion to a child. At this point, with the time frame you're looking at for behavior modification on the dog, I would have to say the best solution is to send him to your family member. Believe me, I know how hard it is to find a new home for a pet.. I have three dogs, a cat, a parrot, the list goes on. I can't say no to any animal. But you have to consider the dog's capability, and in this case, I'd have to say that you don't know what happened to him in his youth, so you can't adequately make a safe decision to keep him around your child.

I wish you luck, though, in whatever choice you make.

(And for the record, pitbulls when properly raised are incredible kids' dogs.. the high pain tolerance makes them far better than most breeds for taking stomped on paws and yanked ears. There are news stories on record of a pomeranian killing a child, so honestly... breed is not a consideration. Background and temperament are the real concerns when assessing a dog.)

 

[shelleb4]

Your in some doubt that the dog wont bite and do damage in the future. Youve not had the time required to truly observe her triggers. The last two attacks have seemed unprovoked. Stop in your tracks and ask yourself, 'how will i feel if my child gets a facial wound from a 'warning' nip from the dog gone wrong?
I have in the past trained dogs of specific breeds, eg german shepherds and rottweilers, they were the trendy breeds of the day. They all walked a fine line. I would always advocate safety. Muzzle your dog while you think things over. Consult your local verinarian, they may advocate chemical castration as a first base. They can simulate what your dog would be like without the testorone dog equivalent, running through his veines. If it seems to work, then you can decide on a surgical castration. This dog is not safe. Safe in a dog means that you can depend on it NOT biting a child 100%. Clearly, this is not the case for you at the moment.
There are options available before considering rehousing, perhaps in a working environment, or in a very active family home, where the dog will be too exhausted to think about aggression. A huge pack if you will.

But muzzle it while you think

 

[Mskey]

A well raised and socialized dog can be such a huge asset to a family with children. But a shelter dog often has issues from its previous life that you can't be aware of, and so they can be a poor choice for a home with kids. Particularly dogs of the breeds that are most often used for fighting and attack work. (I say attack instead of protection because there is a huge difference between a junkyard dog on a chain, and a highly trained protection dog.)

Very well said!!
Our sweet "ol man" Freckles is a mixture of breeds that have somewhat inconsitent track records with kids, Greyhound and Australian Shepard and people always wonder why he's so incredible with kids. Well we brought him home at around the same time as our first child and raised him from a 6 week old pup with kids and all their noises and crazy behaviors. Freckles has never known a home where he didn't have a munchkin crawling around his food dish or trying to ride his back, or competing for the choice spot on the couch. He is so attached to our girls now that when they spend the night with grandma he paces the floor in their room and whines. He has been used for a pony, a pollow and stylists practice head and never even once snapped, nipped or bitten. If the kids get to rough he simply nudges them away and finds somewhere else to be. But....we have always had him around kids, he's very socialized to them, very used to their noise and such.
As Freckles got older and we weren't home as much we decided to get a companion dog for him and chose a very sweet natured border collie who had virtually no experience with kids but was due to be put down having overstayed his time at the pound. The two dogs were like night and day with the kids. The collie growled every time the kids approched me, he snapped if you walked to close to his feeding dish, and heaven forbid a sleepy little head fell asleep on his big furry body! We soon realized he needed the one on one time and quiet that our house couldn't give and we found him a new home where he's now very happy and spoiled rotten.
I know it's hard to get rid of the animal if you have a good bond with it, and YOU may never have a moment of trouble out of this dog, but there is something about your child it just doesn't like. Better to find it a new home then take the risk.

 

[cremebrulee]

Originally posted by lost5pints
okay a little bit moe background information.....we have only had the dog since september......We rescued him from the base kennel a few days before he was going to ship of to a kill shelter where he would have been put down if they did not find an owner.....We obtained the dog for security purposes and companionship.....I work long hours for the security and my wife isn't compfortable with weapons(me either until my children are old enough to be taught).....My love is a sufferer of an anxioty disorder and having the dog help's her get over alot of her fears while im away.....we have a relative in mind with property that we will give the pup too if we decide that he needs to go.....until we figure out what were going to due he will spend alot more time in his crate.....Ill be able to talk to the animal warden in the morning......plus my wife has a friend in CA who trains dogs for a living.....either way im going to take care of my family first.....just have to find the wife another dog before I leave......have a good day and thank you all for your opinions.....L5P's

Pit Bull Rescue
That's a link to resources to help you find a good home for your friend. My experiences with rescues have been beyond wonderful ~ you'll have help finding a good home where someone has the time to train and spen with your dog as well as not being judged for your situation.

Best wishes and a safe TOD.

~Creme