Does size matter

[iadoremywife]

First off I would like to appolagize for the fact that this post is not erotic, and probably not story worthy. I know that there are a lot of very intellegent people on Literotica that could probably give me some good feedback on the issue.

This question has plauged humans for quite some time, does size matter to women. The only attempt I can find to answer this question is survey of women directly asking the question. Now, I know most women (not all) have been taught at an early age that the male ego is very fragile. Thus, effecting their response. "OH NO honey your small cock is all I ever need"

I believe that rather than asking women the question, we should consult the works of Charles Darwin. If size does really matter wouldn't women select a mate based on his ability to please her. That being the case, wouldn't the genome reponsible for a small penis come to it's natural eveloutionary demise? If most offspring are concieved with men of larger size, the male human with a larger penis would naturally become the dominate trate.

Now, I realize that pre-marital sex has only become prominate in the last 50 years or so. Before then women didn't know what they were getting till their wedding night. Kinda of a grab bag scenerio. However, today most women know the exact endowment of thier mate.

Having said that, I predict that in about 4 or 5 generations from now all men will have a large penis. Sorry women, you were just born in the wrong time.

Taking this eveloution thing one step further, males with African decent are said to be larger. Going back before the 19th century, in the African heat men wore very few cloths, thus allowing the woman to know what she was getting. Did eveloution already wipe out the "small penis genome" in the African race?

These are all just thoughts I decided to write down. PM me if you would like to discuss. Again, sorry for the lack of erotica.

 

[Carnevil9]

How do we know this didn't already happen?

Think about it: back in antiquity, maybe penis lengths averaged around one inch. A few lucky guys had three or four inches, and a very rare one might have had seven or eight inches.

Naturally, the one-inchers were bad at pleasing women, or at least bad at impregnating them, and their stock died off, leaving us with a super-race of five-inch or more mega-cocks on nearly every man on the planet.

 

[MagicFingers]

Yes, but

The latest studies show that women prefer men who are better looking and have symetrical features to ones that aren't or don't. And they have more orgasms with better looking men. AND, those female orgasms actualy cause contractions that rush the sperm up into the fallopian tubes, and even can select which tube is more likely to contain an egg, and send more sperm up that one.

Furthermore, the clitoris wraps around the vagina like a band, so that firm stroking in there by a proficient-sized penis is more likely to help her have an orgasm. It doesn't have to be big, just big enough. A one inch one can get her pregnant as well as a 7" one, though it is thought the longer one may deposit the sperm further up and give it more chance to reach it's goal.
If you ask women, I'm sure most would prefer 7" to 4", 2" to 1" radius if they are having sex for fun. But 10" MC's? Most would not like the pain or discomfort.

This has been beat to death here on Lit but I wanted to add my 2 cents.
Remember porn from the 60's or 70's? (No, I don't either ) Few guys were more than 6 or 7". Now there are thousands that are 8, 9, 10". So maybe Carnevil is right, we've already selectively engineered the bigher ones.

Cheers, and MC - Merry Christmas

 

[shesnotcheating]

How do we know this didn't already happen?

Think about it: back in antiquity, maybe penis lengths averaged around one inch. A few lucky guys had three or four inches, and a very rare one might have had seven or eight inches.

Naturally, the one-inchers were bad at pleasing women, or at least bad at impregnating them, and their stock died off, leaving us with a super-race of five-inch or more mega-cocks on nearly every man on the planet.

This is theorized to be true, but not for the reasons Carny gives. Pre-historic human females are believed to have been very promiscuous. The glans of the human penis serves as a scoop, removing the sperm of previous mates from the vagina. Therefore, having a longer penis both allowed the well endowed male to deposit his sperm deeper, where it would be safe from "scooping" by future lovers, and also allowed him to "scoop out" most of the sperm of previous lovers. Kinda gross, but that's the theory.

As far as the mega-cock statement, this is also true. Humans have by far the largest penises in the great ape family. In fact, gorilla penises are so small, that had King Kong actually existed, Fay Wray may actually have been able to "accomodate" him.

 

[JRaven]

SO many thoughts!

As I read this, so many thoughts come to mind that I'm not sure I can really do them justice. Keep in mind, these are my thoughts. Not all women are as perverted as I am. And, there are a much greater percentage of open minded women on Lit than in the general population.

If I can't tell you're in me, you're too short. My lips are sensitive. The friction on my lips gets me going. If you can't stick it in far enough to get past my lips, you're too short.

Friction... Take two six foot sticks and rub them together. The friction is over such a large area, you'll never build up any heat. Take two six inch sticks and rub them together, you've lit my fire.

Speakiing of six inch sticks, quantity does matter! I'll take two six inch dicks over one twelve inch dick any day, or night, or morning, or afternoon...

I've read stories here where the guy sticks his dick in so far, he pushes into the ueterus. Ouch, Fuck you! That's like giving birth. Not erotic at all!

A dick as fat as a soda can. Yeah, see the one above. Every thrust is like giving birth.

Remember guys, it's the friction between your dick and my pussy that makes up both feel good. If Joe has small hands and a big dick, and Bill has big hands and a small dick, is the mess any different?

No, it's the friction, the rubbing, the nibbles on my ear that set me off.

There's more, but everything is running together in my head. I'm just going to go get fucked and not worry about how small. I only worry about too fucking big.

Jenny

 

[Etaski]

Ohhh, my head...

Christ....Well, since this isn't a story idea or an erotic matter, I guess it's open debate!

I believe that rather than asking women the question, we should consult the works of Charles Darwin. If size does really matter wouldn't women select a mate based on his ability to please her. That being the case, wouldn't the genome reponsible for a small penis come to it's natural eveloutionary demise? If most offspring are concieved with men of larger size, the male human with a larger penis would naturally become the dominate trate.

Not bad, but far too broad. You're overlooking that the huge majority of human history is pre-globalization, and like any species, you've got isolated sample groups. Humans have traveled far and wide for most of our history, but most people still put down roots and stay put. Natural selection and survival of the species actually depends more on the diversity of features over the entire species, and there is no "goal" in mind for what traits are desirable.

That's wasn't misleading about the word "evolution." It implies progress, a direction. Guess what? It's not necessarily going anywhere, it's responding to the environment, and even then a mass of species can *still* get wiped out by an environmental catastrophe.

Now, I realize that pre-marital sex has only become prominate in the last 50 years or so. Before then women didn't know what they were getting till their wedding night. Kinda of a grab bag scenerio. However, today most women know the exact endowment of thier mate.

Not even remotely true. You're assuming your norm is the world-wide norm. There are STILL cultures where it's a "grab bag" and there were many, many more promiscuous cultures long before this one. The statement does not stand on its own and has no merit except, again, in "isolated samples groups."

Taking this eveloution thing one step further, males with African decent are said to be larger. Going back before the 19th century, in the African heat men wore very few cloths, thus allowing the woman to know what she was getting. Did eveloution already wipe out the "small penis genome" in the African race?

And I've read in more reputable sources that there's not as much difference as the white male mind fears there is.

"Evolution" (and Darwin really *hated* that name, by the way, because it was misleading---but European minds liked the feeling of "knowing" and superiority it gave them so it stuck) does not occur at a slow, regular pace among individuals and certainly not in any way that you can see. Remember, we're talking about "relative continuums" in a species---even giraffe have neck lengths that vary.

Evolution occurs in a "herky-jerky" movement only during times of great upheaval that will significantly change the genome pool. I.e. a couple traits help the species survive better than some others, so those that don't have them die out quickly, leaving the others to propagate. The species is suddenly changed, as a whole, not as an individual, then settles into a stable equilibrium again with the new dominant genes. Then they don't change, except as gene mutate to, again, favor gene diversity (because that's what life does, for whatever reason).

During times of stability and relative plenty for a species? The diversity in the genome pool remains as it ever was. It won't change hardly at all (excepting mutations) until something significant happens to the humans race.

 

[Etaski]

This is theorized to be true, but not for the reasons Carny gives. Pre-historic human females are believed to have been very promiscuous. The glans of the human penis serves as a scoop, removing the sperm of previous mates from the vagina. Therefore, having a longer penis both allowed the well endowed male to deposit his sperm deeper, where it would be safe from "scooping" by future lovers, and also allowed him to "scoop out" most of the sperm of previous lovers. Kinda gross, but that's the theory.

That's a new one. Bear in mind there are a LOT of theories out there along these lines. (You should read some of the older ones for why there's such a thing as female orgasm. Take it with a grain of salt.

As far as the mega-cock statement, this is also true. Humans have by far the largest penises in the great ape family. In fact, gorilla penises are so small, that had King Kong actually existed, Fay Wray may actually have been able to "accomodate" him.

Now that's true. The relative size of the human male penis compared to his body is actually a freakish size compared to other primates. (Even a scrawny 4"-long human guy has a cock much bigger than a silverback gorilla. )

More than that, the human penis has lost its "os penis" (its penis bone) that allows for instant erections in the general animal kingdom. It requires more time and care to even be able to penetrate, again, compared to other primates.

Why might this be? Well, it did have the social benefit of encouraging longer mating and therefore stronger bonding between mated pairs, increasing the chances of the survival of the offspring if the couple worked together to raise them....but that's just one theory.

So yes, you could actually say that humans have evolved to have larger-than-proportion penises compared to the other primates. BUT...that's still larger in ratio for the entire race, not individual men. Individual men just represent the continuum of traits available in the gene pool right now...until the next big disaster.

 

[shesnotcheating]

More than that, the human penis has lost its "os penis" (its penis bone) that allows for instant erections in the general animal kingdom. It requires more time and care to even be able to penetrate, again, compared to other primates.

Why might this be? Well, it did have the social benefit of encouraging longer mating and therefore stronger bonding between mated pairs, increasing the chances of the survival of the offspring if the couple worked together to raise them....but that's just one theory.

The "scoop" theory actually addresses this as well. The wedge shape of the head of the human penis allows it to push through already deposited semen. On the outstrokes, the coronal ridge then "scoops out" some of that semen on the out strokes. The more strokes, the more competing sperm is removed. This explains why humans participate in this thrusting in and out behavior, as opposed to other primates who simply enter and ejaculate.

But, of course, as you point out, this is just one theory amongst a number of them. Thanks for doing so, I should have done so myself.

Now we just need to figure out the evolutionary reason I'm obsessed with seeing my wife involved with one or more hugely hung guys.

 

[Etaski]

The "scoop" theory actually addresses this as well. The wedge shape of the head of the human penis allows it to push through already deposited semen. On the outstrokes, the coronal ridge then "scoops out" some of that semen on the out strokes. The more strokes, the more competing sperm is removed. This explains why humans participate in this thrusting in and out behavior, as opposed to other primates who simply enter and ejaculate.

*ponders* Hmm. I can see that, and it would marry up fairly nicely with the description I read about competing sperm cells (from 2 or more males) actually do try to stop/disable each other...

I'm serious. Tails wrapping around each other to create a wall or blockage, and types of attacks that disable sperm.

Another tidbit about that: a man's ejaculate volume increases significantly if he's been away from his mate for a period of at least 3 days. Not just because he might be horny, but to literally try to "flush out" any "foreign" sperm that might be present.

How the sperm can tell between each other I'm not sure, but this was a fun conversation with a professor in class.

But, of course, as you point out, this is just one theory amongst a number of them. Thanks for doing so, I should have done so myself.

I've run into some even in scientific sources where I think, "mmm...nahhhhh, wishful thinking."

But..."form equals function" does really play a big part. And I always sort of wondered about the mushroom shape of the glans; it's a good point.

Now we just need to figure out the evolutionary reason I'm obsessed with seeing my wife involved with one or more hugely hung guys.

Perhaps not evolutionarily speaking, but almost certainly behavioral/social biology. If I may have your opinion on something.

One theory I read (but can't explain very well) was that the group sex was sort of the opposite of "a mate paid bonding": "male/pack bonding" The female is sort of the vessel but the main point is the males bonding, reaffirming their group masculinity with each other by sharing a woman.

Buuuut...I'm not sure if that's really anything to do with your fantasy here. Thoughts?

 

[dutchsmurf]

I think I read somewhere that size does matter. Size of the guy's wallet to be exact. I believe it was some kind of research that showed that women with a rich partner had more orgasms. I will try to dig it up.

[EDIT] Found it, but it is in Dutch so you will have to use google translate to make sense out of it. Link

Or an English version.

 

[silverwhisper]

this question is discussed very often on the how to subforum.

the general consensus among the female litsters there: provided a man's penis is within the normal range of 5-7" in length, it isn't making much difference and yes, some women prefer to avoid the gigantic 12" cock as it's virtually impossible to do certain things (e.g., anal) with such a massively endowed partner. further, the men attached to these very large penises are often (although certainly not always) not very proficient in their usage.

again, in the consensus over there, the man's skill, both in use of his manhood as well as other skills, far overshadows the contribution of his cock size to their pleasure.

this isn't however to say that there aren't some who really love super-sized cocks--when it's gay man, he's called a size queen.

i guess my point in all of this is that you can write whatever you want in your stories, but if they don't jibe with the reader's experiences, you'll have lost your reader.

ed

 

[CWatson]

we should consult the works of Charles Darwin. If size does really matter wouldn't women select a mate based on his ability to please her. That being the case, wouldn't the genome reponsible for a small penis come to it's natural eveloutionary demise? If most offspring are concieved with men of larger size, the male human with a larger penis would naturally become the dominate trate.

True... But in your very next sentence, you sink your own theory:

Now, I realize that pre-marital sex has only become prominate in the last 50 years or so. Before then women didn't know what they were getting till their wedding night.

By your own admittance, of course, which you get points for. But, if your theory is correct, then people should be walking around today with small sizes. I dunno about you, but my 5-incher has not disappointed anybody yet.

The vagina is an extremely elastic organ. It expands to accomodate a baby's head during birth, but under normal circumstances it's pretty small. So size is in the eye of the beholder. My understanding, furthermore, is that, as such, girth is more important to a woman's pleasure than length, since a wider penis will provide stronger and more direct stimulation to the woman's nerve endings than a long one. (I wouldn't know, owning neither a very-wide penis nor a vagina, but this is what I have heard.)

(Also, you're completely wrong about pre-marital sex not being predominant. According to the historical records we have, the Puritans--yeah, those crazy repressive types we all hear about--had a pregnant-during-the-wedding likelihood of one-third. And while the Victorians didn't talk much about sex in public, their porn was so intense that most sex workers today would probably decline to film it. Human nature is human nature: we want sex; this is an evolutionary positive. Which is more likely: that humans only started wanting sex-before-marriage in the last 50 years? Or that humans only started admitting, and talking about, sex-before-marriage in the last 50 years?)

Two closing points: the standard deviation for penis length is quite low. About 95% of men have penes between the length of 5 and 7 inches. It's extremely unusual, in other words, to have a "pornstar-length" penis. Secondly, it might not be a positive evolutionary trait. Furthermore, a fair proportion of the female population find very-deep penetration, or direct cervical stimulation during sex, to be painful, at least if it's not worked up to properly. Jondalar, the male lead in Jean Auel's historical-romance series Earth's Children, suffers from a particularly heavy-handed variety: he is so well-endowed that he always has to hold back during intercourse, for fear of causing his partner pain. His musings on the subject tend to come across as rather whiny, but it would suck to have to hold back from full commitment to a sexual act for most of your life.

 

[iadoremywife]

I would like to thank everyone for their response. I truely believe that this subject could be debated till the end of time.

A comment on the "scoop theory". Wouldn't that only apply to orgy scenerios. How long would the spern stay "scoopable" after ejaculation?

 

[JRaven]

I would like to thank everyone for their response. I truely believe that this subject could be debated till the end of time.

A comment on the "scoop theory". Wouldn't that only apply to orgy scenerios. How long would the spern stay "scoopable" after ejaculation?

Only circumsized dicks have a scoop. The natural ones don't. So the whole "scoop out the other guy's cum" only works in a loving wives story (real or fictional).

 

[iadoremywife]

Yeah, but wouldn't the scoop have to take place before the first mans sperm is processed, for lack of a better word? The next day is too late, right?

 

[rthnck]

Only circumsized dicks have a scoop. The natural ones don't. So the whole "scoop out the other guy's cum" only works in a loving wives story (real or fictional).

Well that's wrong. Erect, uncircumcised penises look and act just like circumcised penises so the "scoop" theory is not invalidated. The head of a penis (scoop and all) is the same whether it's cut or uncut.

 

[shesnotcheating]

Well that's wrong. Erect, uncircumcised penises look and act just like circumcised penises so the "scoop" theory is not invalidated. The head of a penis (scoop and all) is the same whether it's cut or uncut.

Thank you. I thought that was the case, but being "cut" myself, I wasn't entirely sure.

 

[jeninflorida]

size is such a funny topic here on literotica. no matter what you say in a story, you will get flamed.

I'm thinking if a guy loves to watch...loves to be second....maybe he's a little bi? not that it matters. I think its funny how men love to watch porn and lets face reality, what's the star of porn movies? hehe

As I read this, so many thoughts come to mind that I'm not sure I can really do them justice. Keep in mind, these are my thoughts. Not all women are as perverted as I am. And, there are a much greater percentage of open minded women on Lit than in the general population.

If I can't tell you're in me, you're too short. My lips are sensitive. The friction on my lips gets me going. If you can't stick it in far enough to get past my lips, you're too short.

Friction... Take two six foot sticks and rub them together. The friction is over such a large area, you'll never build up any heat. Take two six inch sticks and rub them together, you've lit my fire.

Speakiing of six inch sticks, quantity does matter! I'll take two six inch dicks over one twelve inch dick any day, or night, or morning, or afternoon...

I've read stories here where the guy sticks his dick in so far, he pushes into the ueterus. Ouch, Fuck you! That's like giving birth. Not erotic at all!

A dick as fat as a soda can. Yeah, see the one above. Every thrust is like giving birth.

Remember guys, it's the friction between your dick and my pussy that makes up both feel good. If Joe has small hands and a big dick, and Bill has big hands and a small dick, is the mess any different?

No, it's the friction, the rubbing, the nibbles on my ear that set me off.

There's more, but everything is running together in my head. I'm just going to go get fucked and not worry about how small. I only worry about too fucking big.

Jenny

 

[CWatson]

Well that's wrong. Erect, uncircumcised penises look and act just like circumcised penises so the "scoop" theory is not invalidated. The head of a penis (scoop and all) is the same whether it's cut or uncut.

I'm not sure that's true. What would be doing the scooping, the corona? (The ridge around the bottom of the glans.) Because, while I too am cut--and even if I wasn't, it would be quite difficult to verify this--my understanding is that the corona is sometimes still covered by the foreskin during intercourse.

As a caveat, though, it should be pointed out that there's not a lot of understanding of why human genitals have evolved the way they have whatsoever. Hell, there's still question as to whether female orgasm is beneficial or vestigial.

 

[rthnck]

I'm not sure that's true. What would be doing the scooping, the corona? (The ridge around the bottom of the glans.) Because, while I too am cut--and even if I wasn't, it would be quite difficult to verify this--my understanding is that the corona is sometimes still covered by the foreskin during intercourse.

As a caveat, though, it should be pointed out that there's not a lot of understanding of why human genitals have evolved the way they have whatsoever. Hell, there's still question as to whether female orgasm is beneficial or vestigial.

I don't subscribe to the scoop theory but the point I was trying to make is that the anatomy in question is the same cut/uncut. The action of the uncut foreskin may aid or hinder the scoop theory during thrusting. I don't have an opinion on that at all.

 

[sexililkitti]

Really Big Cocks

have two real uses......erotic stories and winning bar bets. Give me six relatively thick inches and a guy who can use it and I am a happy girl