Does great art come from great suffering?

[freescorfr]

From Kotori's Doom thread. We were talking about whether Oscar Wilde would have produced so marvellously had he not been persecuted for his homosexuality.

 

[T.H. Oughts]

So my art comes from the relaxation of my muse...... Maybe if I told the world I was bi-sexual it would get even better

 

[freescorfr]

So my art comes from the relaxation of my muse...... Maybe if I told the world I was bi-sexual it would get even better

Would you suffer if you told the world you are bi, TH?

 

[Starfish]

It sounds like you may have something, but what I am trying to figure out is how relative the concept is to all artists.

I can only speak on behalf of myself, and I must answer yes, in my case. Even though I've tried to banish my personal suffering, and not acknowledge it because it holds me back, I fail at it many times, so with art I am trying to give the suffering new life within something else.

It can and does feed the soul of the art as it pours out of me... in release.

 

[T.H. Oughts]

Would you suffer if you told the world you are bi, TH?

I would be sad becasue it would make my parents sad because I'm married, they would not understand that it is ok to be married and bi. Though my husband would not mind he is cool about it.

I don't suffer through my art I've never been one to make flames coming out my ears or ugly faces.... I'm more the bright vibrant artist with colours when it comes to my personal work.......

I work better when happy and not depressed...

 

[freescorfr]

It sounds like you may have something, but what I am trying to figure out is how relative the concept is to all artists.

I can only speak on behalf of myself, and I must answer yes, in my case. Even though I've tried to banish my personal suffering, and not acknowledge it because it holds me back, I fail at it many times, so with art I am trying to give the suffering new life within something else.

It can and does feed the soul of the art as it pours out of me... in release.

I suppose its not the suffering itself that produces good art, otherwise we'd be swamped with it. Maybe its repressing the suffering and allowing the energies of repression to find their expression in painting, music and writing that lead to great art.

 

[T.H. Oughts]

It can and does feed the soul of the art as it pours out of me... in release.

Yes, art does feed the soul for sure.... if I could not express my creativity I would then be a sad person jumping around in my own skin.....

So being able to create makes me happy.... I'm not one of those dark moody artists.... I do get pissed off, but deal with it quickly...

 

[freescorfr]

I would be sad becasue it would make my parents sad because I'm married, they would not understand that it is ok to be married and bi. Though my husband would not mind he is cool about it.

I don't suffer through my art I've never been one to make flames coming out my ears or ugly faces.... I'm more the bright vibrant artist with colours when it comes to my personal work.......

I work better when happy and not depressed...

Ah! TH our parents voices in our heads, they last so long and ring so loud.

I think depression is different from suffering. It is possible to suffer without being depressed. It is possible to suffer and remain serene and peaceful.

What do you think your vibrant colours are saying?

 

[Starfish]

Yes, art does feed the soul for sure....

Not to be noxiously picky, but that isn't what I was saying. I was saying that my pain gives my artwork soul. I don't really see myself as an angry, moody artists. I am actually very cheerful and try to be happy outwardly, if not inwardly.

However I do understand what you mean and agree.

For me, it is like the act of making art then frees me of my attachment to the pain and stress that I harbor, as I think about it when I am doing the art, and then I am freed of it to a degree (the weight of it).... thus making my soul lifted.

 

[Guest]

From Kotori's Doom thread. We were talking about whether Oscar Wilde would have produced so marvellously had he not been persecuted for his homosexuality.

I would have to say, that a lot of great art DOES come from suffering, though I must say, not all. For me, mine does, especially my poetry, but even my pen and ink sometimes does.

I have a friend, however, that is one of the best oil painters I have ever seen, and I don't believe his comes from suffering. Unless, of course, you think living with Manic/depression all your life is suffering. He's had to deal with that, but for the most part, has had a very happy childhood and life. (He's in his 40's now)

Moon

 

[T.H. Oughts]

I think depression is different from suffering. It is possible to suffer without being depressed. It is possible to suffer and remain serene and peaceful.

What do you think your vibrant colours are saying?

The colours say..... "this is me, take it or leave it."

I don't use soft pastel colours unless a commision calls for it. ($ speak)



I don't suffer my art, "I love it" because I had the luck to find it in my life and it makes me feel so whole..... I am able to release daily tensions with it... escaping into it, I'm not a sports person who will run a couple of miles to tune out....

AND becasue people wanna pay me lots of $$$$$'s for doing it

 

[freescorfr]

Re: Re: Does great art come from great suffering?

I would have to say, that a lot of great art DOES come from suffering, though I must say, not all. For me, mine does, especially my poetry, but even my pen and ink sometimes does.

I have a friend, however, that is one of the best oil painters I have ever seen, and I don't believe his comes from suffering. Unless, of course, you think living with Manic/depression all your life is suffering. He's had to deal with that, but for the most part, has had a very happy childhood and life. (He's in his 40's now)

Moon

I'd say that living with manic/depression is big suffering, with painful origins, MoonWolf.

 

[T.H. Oughts]

It is very hard to put it all into words. I'm sure if we were all in the same room able to actually talk right now it would also be a pleasure and feed our souls......

 

[freescorfr]

It is very hard to put it all into words. I'm sure if we were all in the same room able to actually talk right now it would also be a pleasure and feed our souls......

You bet TH and we'd be able to see, RL, your pastels. Sounds to me as if your soul does go into them. lol

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Re: Does great art come from great suffering?

I'd say that living with manic/depression is big suffering, with painful origins, MoonWolf.

This can be true, and fortunately this particular friend has not had as hard of a time with the disease as many other's I've known with it. It's interesting how many people have to struggle with is so.

<ppm

 

[T.H. Oughts]

Re: Re: Does great art come from great suffering?

I would have to say, that a lot of great art DOES come from suffering, though I must say, not all. For me, mine does, especially my poetry, but even my pen and ink sometimes does.

Now I would say a lot of my poetry comes from times of suffering....But also in the heights of passionate arousal for something. So maybe when in "heights" of goodness, sadness or frustration.

Yes, in the heights of things my poetry comes to me.....

Confussed... watch next week, lol

 

[T.H. Oughts]

These words I wrote in a time of passionate suffering.......


I can not help but prejudice of others,
as you are not as them.

How can words of others matter,
when yours penetrate, not just touch.

Is sleep necessary,
when thought of surrender freshens.

Should I take food for my being,
when your eyes I feed of,
your body I drink.

Is total surrender to drown or survive.

 

[Guest]

Very nice TH.

I don't want to post mine here....they are rather large...but if you want to read a couple, I have a web site I've just started building that has two of them.

Some of my art is posted there too.

Moon

My homepage

 

[T.H. Oughts]

I have a web site I've just started building that has two of them.

I liked the shading in your barn picture

The two peoms I felt and respected.

 

[Guest]

I liked the shading in your barn picture

The two peoms I felt and respected.

Thanks.....I have a lot more art, but most of it's to big to scan. I'll get it up there eventually.

And I have more poetry to put up too, eventually.

Moon

 

[Ishmael]

I don't think so. At least not to exclusion. I think that great art comes from great passion. And great passion can be driven by any one of a number of emotions. I have a problem thinking of Gaugin as a suffering artist.

Ishmael

 

[freescorfr]

Re: Re: Does great art come from great suffering?

I don't think so. At least not to exclusion. I think that great art comes from great passion. And great passion can be driven by any one of a number of emotions. I have a problem thinking of Gaugin as a suffering artist.

Ishmael

I'm sure that's true Ishmael and touches on some of the things said in Dillinger's kindness and passion thread.


Gaugin was on a journey of discovery, of enlightenment:


"Under the continual contact with the pebbles my feet have become hardened and used to the ground. My body, almost constantly nude, no longer suffers from the sun. Civilization is falling from me little by little. I am beginning to think simply, to feel only very little hatred for my neighbor - rather, to love him. "
- from Noa, Noa: The Tahitian Journal


That phrase "My feet have become hardened..." suggests to me that his journey had its share of suffering.

 

[ag2507]

Suffering is part of the story: but not all of it. It is also true that many great artists are, or are believed, to have suffered to some extent from manic depression.

The talent is not a product of suffering but at times of heightened emotion the talent can produce something wonderful, or, be totally suppressed.

The experience of suffering can be so emotionally overwhelming that nothing comes out: once relieved, that suffering can be productive, as can seeing the suffering of others.

But creativity is an anomoly of the human condition: a sated human usually does nothing, the hunger to innovate comes from dissatisfaction of ones current condition: hence the wave nature of civilization. I see no reason why art should differ from the general human experience.

 

[patient1]

But creativity is an anomoly of the human condition: a sated human usually does nothing, the hunger to innovate comes from dissatisfaction of ones current condition: hence the wave nature of civilization. I see no reason why art should differ from the general human experience.

Aha! This is my school of thought.

I believe that frustration is the mother of creativity.

That can be true for an inventor doing an unpleasant task, a blacksmith using an awkward tool, a poet who can't describe his love or happiness with existing sentences, or a painter who wishes the light would always shine like it does at that moment.

 

[riff]

I think that great art can be produced by great suffering. But likewise, it can be produced by great joy.

Perhaps it is a matter of process. Emotion, passion, compassion, emotiveness- these all interplay with skill of expression.

We are all artists, though not all are artisans. Was it not Wilde who said, "Life imitates art?"

There is the idea- and a very practical one that I experienced many years ago with a Jungian psychoanalyst who gave me a book called "A Creative Journal."

Is anyone familiar with it? If we need to pigeonhole it, we could simply label it as "art therapy," and be done with it; however, I think that entire process is fascinating.

Is it possible, do you think, that we can learn to become artists of life? Or is this simply a remote and unacheivable dream of a wounded soul seeking protection from vissicissitudes (how do ya spell it?) (What I mean to say is the sting of life?) of life?