Does erotica need more conflict within sex scenes?

[countdowntolov3]

In grade school I was taught that all good narratives are built out of literary conflicts. Character vs self, character vs nature, character vs character, all that jazz. Now I don't know if that's universally true, but intuitively there is at least a grain of truth there. Conflict does make for a more compelling story.

Now I promise not to go into a theoretical lecture here. I hate that stuff. And I'm quite unqualified anyway. But I do hope you'll keep this in mind: conflicts can be small and internal to a scene or large and scene spanning. And one strategy for engaging readers is to progress your large conflicts through many smaller conflicts.

As a reader I really love when erotica includes small conflicts within the sex scenes. A man trying not to orgasm, a bratty sub fighting her master, a top struggling to put the bottom's desires above their own. Sex of all forms offers myriads of potential conflicts. Many if which can emerge and resolve in just a few lines. But I find that even in great erotica most sex scenes do not contain any small internal conflicts and are instead used as singular story beats in part of a larger narrative conflict.

Now, I am not saying that sex scenes without internal conflicts are always a bad thing! When our heros finally shag as the catharsis of a story-wide conflict, it is an excellent reward. And distracting us with the knight's premature ejaculation just to inject some localized conflict within the scene probably doesn't serve the story. But when every sex scene in the story lacks internal conflicts I find my engagement wavers.

I've been writing my latest story with the idea that the sex scenes should be built of many small conflicts and it's feeling good! But I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts. Do you agree that erotica is generally lacking in these kind of scenes? Do I sound like a crazy lady? Are there any authors or stories that you feel do this really well (I want to read them)?

 

[NoTalentHack]

I don’t think so. I mean, they can definitely be part of a sex scene; we’ve got whole genres here that are all about conflict in sexual situations. But there’s a tendency of modern lit critics and teachers to ignore what’s worked in the past, and what can still work. Take the pastoral, for example. It was a hugely popular genre for centuries, a description of what it was like to travel to a place the reader might never go. A huge chunk of the Lord of the Rings (admittedly, the part a lot of modern readers complain about) are descriptions of travel, preparation, and scenery.

If you take the idea of sex-scene-as-pastoral, I think you can make the argument that it maps pretty close to one-to-one: it’s a description of done thing the reader can’t/won’t necessarily experience. Few folks are of the fitness/attractiveness level of most erotica characters, nor have a partner that’s as dynamic/energetic; and even if they do have these criteria, there will always be partners they’re never going to have, who will do things they haven’t.

So, yes, conflict can work and even be the driver of a sex scene. But sometimes ot’s nice to just enjoy the scenery, as it were.

 

[Euphony]

Do you agree that erotica is generally lacking in these kind of scenes?

Yes. But as to whether this is good, bad, or indifferent is up for debate.

Plenty of readers are about fantasy sex not having the burdens of everyday sex (and its negotiations.) To me, there is nothing wrong with that but I would struggle to stay engaged writing such b/c in the imperfect is where I find more interesting relationship growth.

As long as quality conflict is present, no issue with sex not being another hurdle to overcome. But there is a wide gap between things working out well for a "first time together" versus to mind reading sex superstars who've finally unlocked coital superpowers by only combining their genital forces.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I see your point and agree that some conflict adds some salt to the story, so to speak. And some sex scenes can benefit from conflict. That hardly means that all, or even most, sex scenes need conflict to succeed. Sex can be gentle and reassuring and comforting and bonding, too.

Conflict is but one arrow in the quiver.

 

[Britva415]

It all depends on whether you're telling a story or simply writing stroke fodder.

It's kind of like asking whether porn needs plot. Some people like a little plot in their porn, some people like a little erotica in their drama. Some people like all drama no smut, others like all smut no drama.

 

[SimonDoom]

Do I agree that erotica is generally lacking on conflict? No, not at all. I see conflict--broadly defined--as being prevalent in, and a crucial feature of most erotica.

There's nothing erotic about a nudist walking around in a nudist resort. But walking nude down a public street -- that's erotic. Conflict is involved: conflict with the law, with the possibility of shame, with one's own sense of propriety.

Incest gets its sizzle from the taboo, which creates internal and external conflict.

It doesn't mean that every single sex scene has to be based on conflict. But if it is not, then it's worth asking what the purpose of the sex scene is in the story. If the sex scene in some way advances the overall story, then it's likely that it has some element of conflict in it.

 

[Britva415]

I've been experimenting with the notion that some sex scenes are there for a reason which furthers plot, and other sex scenes are the destination, the resolution of the plot.

So there's conflict in the story but not in the sex.

I also like some stories where there is conflict in the sex, and the scene tells how the conflicted person experiences the sex, the conflict, and the resolution.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Conflict and tension is essential to plot. I suppose that plot is not necessary in erotica, especially if the piece is under say 3 to 5k words. I'm not sure what the percentage is but a LAAAARRRRGE amount of readers only want to read about their favorite kink and even then often only if it's presented in what they feel is the correct way. They're not interested in plot at all, in fact plot only gets in the way. All that the reader wants is his unicorn. Not everyone is that way of course, but a large chunk of readership is that way and I suppose that one could score well with them.

 

[SamScribble]

More conflict than what?

 

[ofbuttons]

I wonder if it's a genre thing. Depending on your genre of erotica (specific to Lit, anyway), the conflict of the story will be located in different places. In a Romance story, the conflict is likely located in the building up of the relationship, and sex is likelier to act as the relief/reward. In a Noncon/Reluctance story, the conflict is usually found in the initiation of sexual encounter and the power struggles that go on before and after. In a Fetish story, the conflict could be located in the lead up to experiencing that fetish for the first time. How conflicted the actual sex is and whether that's good or needed is dependent on where the tension of the story lies - and even in an erotica story, sex may not be that tension.

And as others have said, straight up stroke fodder may lack that, depending on the kink!

 

[TadOverdon]

Most of the sex scenes I write have some degree of conflict in them, though most often it's inner conflict on the part of one or more of the characters. It's a tricky thing, since IMHO the most important thing I have to convey in those scenes is that people are enjoying themselves bigly.

 

[TheRedChamber]

A lot of good answers already on this thread.

I was looking into four-part story structure yesterday because I was worried that my current plan for a story was in danger of getting flabby, and, since its uppermost in my mind, it seems to me that sex scenes can serve an important role practically anywhere in a story.

1) At the beginning as the status quo. Either the protagonist is having boring sex and something will happen to shake that up, or the protagonist is having great sex and something will come along to threaten that.
2) As the inciting incident - the protagonist, after a dry spell, is having great sex again, but with great sex comes great plot developments.
3) As part of the character arc - the protagonist needs to solve their sexual issues or become 'better' at sex in some way in order to resolve the plot.
4) As part of the climax - teehee 'climax'.

The amount of conflict necessary in any sexual encounter will depend on what the role of the scene in the overall story is.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I've been writing my latest story with the idea that the sex scenes should be built of many small conflicts and it's feeling good! But I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts. Do you agree that erotica is generally lacking in these kind of scenes? Do I sound like a crazy lady? Are there any authors or stories that you feel do this really well (I want to read them)?

I don't think it's the only way to write, but it's something I enjoy and often do in my own stories. Those conflicts can be interpersonal (two rivals end up in a threesome with the object of their affections, and have to figure out how to get along with one another) or intrapersonal (character wants the other one, but also has qualms about sleeping with somebody they view as vulnerable).

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

The story should dictate the conflict and what the conflict is. Internal conflict, say a first date, the guy strugling with how much to press for more than a goodnight peck, while the woman debates if she even likes the guy enough to kiss him, can be effective. A cuckold story should have internal conflicts. In more dramatcic or melodramatic stories, conflicts that bubble to surface and drive the story are good. I love, sometimes, to read about conflicts that devolve into physical altercations.

 

[lovecraft68]

Oh, I do know Aristotle's three elements of tragedy.

Google and copy and paste really work for you, don't they?

 

[Voboy]

Sometimes.

Direct conflict in sex, like a struggle for dominance between the participants, is something I've tried before, but as a rule I don't think it translates as well to most of the stories I choose to write. It can definitely further the plot, though, which (as @Britva415 points out above) is often a legitimate reason for two characters to fuck.

I suspect that if/when the objective is to get the reader off, a less combative sex scene is probably more straightforward, and therefore more desirable for that purpose.

 

[HeyAll]

'The only thing worth writing about is conflict in the heart' --- Faulkner

That's one of the quotes I always think about when writing erotica.

And yes, including in sex scenes. I try to focus on the conflict.

Many erotic stories have good build-ups and then when it comes to sex it becomes a free-for-all (which i've done in the past) but I feel that great erotica has the conflict still happening the sex scene, otherwise it's just mindless sex.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

It depends on the function of the scene. Not every scene in a book directly drives the plot. Some scenes only exist to establish information or explore something about a character. An especially complex work with a bunch of moving parts might need a scene that's lacking in conflict for pacing or to set up what will be the conflict later on in the story.

My stories all hinge on conflict so finding a sex scene without it... probably not going to happen. I think I pull it off pretty well. I'm gonna keep using Home Run as an example because it's my most recent and frankly my most approachable work on this website. At least as approachable as a gay male story can be. [Link to the story.]

In Home Run there are three sex scenes. The first is Yuma jerking off and while that's seemingly lacking conflict the actual narration of the scene touches on his internalized homophobia. The second is Yuma with a complete stranger which is a source of external conflict later but the scene itself is doing a lot of heavy lifting. It's Yuma VS Self VS Society at the bare minimum. And then the last sex scene in that "Chapter"* was about Jun's first time so there's the awkwardness of that acting as a conflict. Just the raw unfiltered "I have no idea what I am doing" energy, I think counts as a conflict.

If there's no conflict in the sex I'd at the very least expect it to show up somewhere else in the work. Take my word with a grain of salt. I'm a weirdo who doesn't understand strokers. The plot is the only part making the sex... yknow, sexy, for me.

*(Literotica fucked up and added Ch. to my "01" so now its confusing that "Home Run Ch. 01" is chapters 1 through 4. It's stupid and I kind of wish whoever would ask before adding letters to titles.)

 

[Bramblethorn]

Another brilliant related takeaway from my course was how diagrams of character arcs and rising and falling tension, etc 'the shapes of stories' became more mainstream. Here's the insanely gifted Kurt Vonnegut, let loose in classroom with a piece of chalk and a chalkboard. Back in the day, I believe this short film went viral around the campuses.

Thanks for reposting this! I'd seen it ages ago, and absorbed the idea, but couldn't remember where it was from. I've seen a couple of other variants but Vonnegut's the most engaging presenter.

 

[DarkSollat]

The fact that a story is about some conflict doesn't mean that every scene must be about conflict.

Maybe sex is something which character use to escape conflict? That in that moment they can finally be at peace. Or maybe it's a conflict, a small struggle for some peace.

Or maybe every sex is a conflict between carnal animalistic desires and limitations imposed by culture.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

There should be conflict, but without turning it into a tragedy. If you dig into the conflict too much the whole element of "fun" will disappear, and we're in the fun business after

Why can't we have tragedy? What's wrong with a bad end? If you want HEA there are millions of Harlequin paperbacks out there (and they're all shitty).

I'm not against the happy ending, but if you know that it's going to end happy what's the point of reading the story? It defeats all of the tension created by your conflict and renders it redundant.

 

[SimonDoom]

Why can't we have tragedy? What's wrong with a bad end? If you want HEA there are millions of Harlequin paperbacks out there (and they're all shitty).

I'm not against the happy ending, but if you know that it's going to end happy what's the point of reading the story? It defeats all of the tension created by your conflict and renders it redundant.

I think it's a great idea. Not easy to do well, and probably not the cup of tea for the majority of Literotica readers, but still a great idea. I have yet to write an erotic story here that would qualify as a tragedy, but it's an interesting idea and challenge.

 

[Britva415]

if you know that it's going to end happy what's the point of reading the story?

Well, it's about finding out how they got there!

I mean, I take your point but just like you say "why can't we have tragedy," why can't we ever have happy endings.

Happy-ending serves a purpose in some stories.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Well, it's about finding out how they got there!

I mean, I take your point but just like you say "why can't we have tragedy," why can't we ever have happy endings.

Happy-ending serves a purpose in some stories.

Exactly this. Surprising the audience has its place in writing but it's not the only game in town. I've read plenty of stories that fell flat because the author was thinking too much about how they could amaze the reader with a clever-clever twist ending, and not nearly enough about whether they should.

Most audiences want a certain mix of predictability and surprises. That's the reason why Literotica (and all its major competitors) have categories, tags, or some equivalent. If I click on a story in the Lesbian category I'm probably hoping for something that contains at least two female-ish people getting together, and I'm going to get cranky if the author delivers unalleviated heterosexuality instead.

In the romances I've read (not a large number, but more than none - admittedly none of them Harlequin) it's always been a given that the protagonists are going to end up HEA with one another, but good authors still manage to create plenty of tension around that "how do they get there?" question. It doesn't even have to be based on conflict between the two lovers; there are plenty of other places people can find tension.

 

[AllenWoody]

I prefer writing sex scenes with tension. That's probably why I gravitate toward non-con/reluctance and (less often) BDSM. I enjoy considering and describing the power dynamic between the characters as they progress through the scene.