Does being Politically Correct restrict free speech...

[p_p_man]

I hate the phrase anyway but having to ensure that only correct, bland, non-controversial comments are made, must restrict the development of a debate.

Being PC (ugh!) can only mean being placed in a mental straight-jacket.

 

[registered "^^"]

Fuck yes it does!!!!!!!

 

[Todd]

Yes, policitcal correct speech is a violation of free spech, got to love how the powere that be in Canada and the United states slipped that one by us while we sleept to erode our personal rights.

Freedom or Security? You be the Judge.

 

[p_p_man]

got to love how the powere that be in Canada and the United states slipped that one by us while we sleept to erode our personal rights.

I always thought the "phrase politically" correct was just a buzz bite that sounded good to those who spend time thinking these things up.

I didn't know it was official. Are you sure about that?

In a way it's like presenting a "balanced argument". That's fine if there's an exam mark at stake or you don't wish to be sued for libel but here on Lit I've notice a lot of "balanced" arguments and "politically correct" debates when most of us consider Lit (especially the General Board) as an extension of our own homes.

I think it comes down to what people think they're taking part in when they post to a thread. It's certainly not a debate. There are basically no rules except for one of common courtesy, and that goes out the window at times!, no judge or arbitrator to ensure fair play and to keep posts down to a certain length and nobody to give points for a good argument or reply.

We police ourselves. Many is the time I've seen LOL or ROTFLMAO in the middle of a very heated argument when one or the other of the participants has said something extremely funny.

No we don't debate, we argue. Arguments that could threaten to break out into the third world war one moment and completely forgotten the next as a new post is submitted and the two agressors find themselves on the same side. Arguing in favour of each other.

It's fun and it's lively. As well as being frustrating and exhasperating...so do we really need to be "PC" as well?

 

[Todd]

I always thought the "phrase politically" correct was just a buzz bite that sounded good to those who spend time thinking these things up.

I think It began as a buzz word, but day by day it snowballs into something so much larger than can be seen. For example, in the USA there is a man jailed for ten years for wrting about pedeophile{SP} stories. He Never did any pedeophilia{sp}. He didn't have any pedeophila pictures. He merely wrote about it and that was enough of a "Politcially inccorect" writing to put him in jail for 10 years. there is a few similar cases in Canada but the details are not well known as this fellows.

I didn't know it was official. Are you sure about that?

It may not be official written in stone, but any where I seem to go it seems to be the standard practice.

In a way it's like presenting a "balanced argument". That's fine if there's an exam mark at stake or you don't wish to be sued for libel but here on Lit I've notice a lot of "balanced" arguments and "politically correct" debates when most of us consider Lit (especially the General Board) as an extension of our own homes.

True, true.

I think it comes down to what people think they're taking part in when they post to a thread. It's certainly not a debate. There are basically no rules except for one of common courtesy, and that goes out the window at times!, no judge or arbitrator to ensure fair play and to keep posts down to a certain length and nobody to give points for a good argument or reply.

Yes, your right forum debates are no by regulated such as a public or Educational Instituion debate.

We police ourselves. Many is the time I've seen LOL or ROTFLMAO in the middle of a very heated argument when one or the other of the participants has said something extremely funny.

Yes, that is something you wouldn't generally see in a Public live debate.

No we don't debate, we argue. Arguments that could threaten to break out into the third world war one moment and completely forgotten the next as a new post is submitted and the two agressors find themselves on the same side. Arguing in favour of each other.

Doesn't the Written word lend itself better to arguement than it does ebate or discussion?

It's fun and it's lively. As well as being frustrating and exhasperating...so do we really need to be "PC" as well?

I think overall Political correctness is a means to provide security without freedom. People will be secure in knowing that the words won't be offensive, but they won't be free to express themselves.

I often have said, though I don't people have read it, Racism isa political tool, not a societal affliction, Politicains cause and spread racism rather than prevent and cure it. If Racism was cured politicaisn would have one less issue to beat like a dead horse. Hnece the need for political correctness.

 

[lavender]

 

[Ravenloft]

I just fucking spit whatever the fuck I think, and fuck every mother fucker who takes issue with my fucking shit, cause I don't give a fucking fuck.

...Good thing I don't think much, huh?















....Fuckers.

 

[Todd]

All individuals are free to speak their mind.

If you aren't, I will point out that your choice of words may not be ideal and could be construed as prejudiced or insensitive towards a group.

B-I-N-G-O give the Lady a prize from the top shelf.

 

[lavender]

 

[Todd]

What I get is the only people who want/need political correctnees are those who wish to restrain or impose on others.

My two trips in New York, Not once did I ever hear an african american say, "Call me African American, not black", never once did I hear a hispanic say, "Call me Mexican/Spanish American" most wanted to be called by what they were, and wanted to be known for who they were as an Individual person.

 

[WriterDom]

I'm an English American. God help me, PP might be a distant relative

 

[morninggirl5]

I'm an English American. God help me, PP might be a distant relative

You know, now that you mention it, there is a resemblance between the two of you.

 

[sexy-girl]

i agree with lavender ... if someone calls me unnatural for being a lesbian you believe they should beable to say that without getting a negative response back from me or from anyone that disagrees with them ?


if you say something that is not PC ... your putting yourself in the firing line theres nothing wrong with that though ... its not like we lock you up for saying it

 

[lavender]

 

[Tabby432]

I should fucking stop trying to beat my head against a brick wall as thick as the Great Wall of China. Wait, possibly thicker.

But you won't.

 

[lavender]

 

[p_p_man]

I'm an English American. God help me, PP might be a distant relative

Hi Cuz!!


**hugs...tears...family reunion**

 

[Juspar Emvan]

Personally . . .

I think political correctness is just a way of cushioning tender ego's that weren't alowed to develope properly in childhood. Real Life is harsh, it is unfair and it is made up of individuals. Perception is Reality and whatever word I choose to apply to what I observe, won't change the way I think. All this is bullshit to my mind, if we pander to peoples inferiority complexes too long, they wont be able to handle it when life comes up and bitchslaps them, which it will.

And does anyone else think that pandering to minorities inflames the majority and give the minority a false sense of power? When did equality start meaning special treatment?

 

[Problem Child]

The problem I have with many PC terms is that they tend to perpetuate a feeling of separation between the various ethnic groups in this country.

I think I basically understand the underlying foundations of Todd's viewpoint, but as per the usual he does a terrible job of explaining himself.

I cringe every time I hear the phrase _______- American, and that means Anything-American. I would love it if all ethnic groups could get over thinking that their particular set of individuals is more intelligent, pretty, hard-working, downtrodden, or whatever they think their major claim to fame is or sets them apart, and become Americans. Period.

And that's really all it is about- pride. The Irish-Americans, for example, think they have a set of values that separates them from the African-Americans and all other Americans, and this is where the roots of racism begin (I'm not blaming racism on Irish-Americans, for all you Slow-Americans out there).

As usual, labeling people causes problems, even if it's done for the most "enlightened", PC reasons. Because I think the whole hyphenated thing is bullshit, I am more comfortable hearing people identified by labels that a lot of people today would consider archaic or racist. If you have to use labels to identify a persons race, I suppose I'm old fashioned enough that I fine with black, white, indian, etc.

Of course, times change, and the language changes. The problem I have with PC terminology is that I think that most of these terms are made up mostly to make people feel better about themselves, but they don't really change the way people view a particular group.

What do blacks from the Carribean think about being called African-American? Are all Blacks that trace their ancestry directly fom Africa really that similar? If we are going to be true to our politically correct language primer, shouldn't a person from Egypt be called African-American also?

What about labels that are not racially derived? I personally think differently-abled sounds stupid as fuck, and is too hard to say. I find nothing wrong with disabled, just as I find nothing wrong with Black, or Indian. I find nothing wrong with the term retarded...it's an accurate description of the level of a person's intelligence. Mentally challenged is not accurate...I'm mentally challenged when I'm doing a New York Times crossword, or trying to design a part at work- these poor people have arrested mental development...they ARE retarded. It's not a slur, it's the truth, and changing what we call them every generation is not going to make them any smarter or feel any better.

To me, black means a person with lots of melanin in their skin. Beyond that, they're just another person, with their own individual set of life experiences. Of course also it means that they are also a minority group, probably had ancestors that were held in slavery, and have curlier hair than I do, but those are generalities. Pasting the term African-American on that person doesn't tell me a damn thing more about him or her, except that whomever insists in that term seems to want to separate themselves further from the mainstream.

Likewise, I don't need to tack American- in front of Indian to know that they (in general) are a proud group of people that were oppressed and killed when all my ancestors showed up over here (well, not mine actually, we've only been here about a hundred years). Calling them American-Indian neither increases or lessens my respect for them as a group. All it does is make me SLIGHTLY more aware that they are a separate group, and that is anti-productive. We have failed at integrating this particular group into our national identity, probably more than any other, and the psychychology of separatism that this PC language represents is part of the reason why.

The point is, it should be about lessening the use of labels, and integration and acceptance, not the other way around.

 

[Juspar Emvan]

What he said, only more succinctly, 'cause I'm lazy.

 

[sexy-girl]

i see what your saying Problem Child but there is a danger in saying that i think what your saying is that everyone living in america should just be called american ... and forgot about labels and such which is nice in a way


but people shouldnt have to forget about there ethnic background to be accepted ... labels and differences are part of why theres racism yes ... but that doesnt mean that everyone who lives in american should integrate themselves into being the american norm just so its easier for the rest of the americans to accept them

 

[p_p_man]

Once again...

I agree completely with Problem Child.

I'm glad he brought in the "challenged" reference because I too find it a ridiculous way of describing someone's differences without ostensibly hurting their feelings.

People who are "challenged" don't live in a goldfish bowl. They know what they are and dressing the word up into something which is meant to be less insulting is attempting to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

To say that a dwarf is "height challenged" is as much an insult to the dwarf's awareness of the medical condition itself as it is to people like me who think the interests of political correctness would be best served if the phrase were returned to wherever it came from.

 

[Problem Child]

Todd -

Hispanic is a politically correct term. It's just that using the word Mexican isn't necessarily PC and spic is downright deplorable.

It's not just African American vs. black when being politically correct. Some people do take it to the extreme. But, I tend to find those people keen. I remember freshman orientation at my very liberal private college. There was a woman, who is a psychology professor, who did one of our opening assemblies. We were never referred to as freshmen we were freshpersons. Everything out of her mouth was PC. It made me smile. I also knew that I had chosen the right college, for me.

It's like calling someone a fag or a dyke. I use the word homosexual. I also use the term GLBTT when referring to the community. It's just a personal preference. I think these words say a lot about a person's opinion and education on various issues. I think our choice of language reflects upon us as individuals, our intellect, our background, our worldview, everything. As I'm saying this I realize how much of a pottymouth I have and how that probably reflects negatively on me. But, I really don't care. Just like you don't care if you are pc.

Lavy, you're right, terms like spic, nigger, kike, are deplorable. I think every person that wants to consider themselves open-minded and non-racist understands this.

But here in California, and all throughout the southwest, there ARE a lot of Mexicans who have taken up permanent residence. Not Mexican-Americans, or Latinos, or Hispanics, of which I suppose they are a sub-group, but people of Mexican citizenship who are illegally in this country. What else should we call them? They have Mexican names, Mexican flags on their cars, they speak the Mexican brand of Spanish. So I think it's pretty much ok to call them Mexicans.

I know that this group is probably not the people you were thinking of when you posted. You were probably thinking of Hispanics of all national origins who are legally in the U.S., but I used it to demonstrate a point. They are one group that doesn't fall neatly under the one label of Hispanic if you are trying to describe their citizenship, or legal status.

The whole labeling thing gets murky when you try to toe the line between identifying people and not "offending" them. What is the difference between a Mexican-American, a latino, a chicano, and a Hispanic person? I think I know, but I would wager 90% of the public in general couldn't tell you. It creates artificial animosities, because all of the sudden every group needs to be validated by being called their own chosen specific name.

What about all the sub-groups in the "Hispanic" culture? Shouldn't we be calling Nicarauguan-Americans, and Honduran-Americans, and Dominican-Americans, and El Salvadoran-Americans by their chosen monikers? Isn't plain old "Hispanic" sort of a slur because it denies each group their own specific identity?

I know that among Mexican farmworkers, it is even more narrowly defined. They think of themselves not only as Mexican, but as Michoacan, or Sonoran, and take great pride in the particular state of Mexico that they come from.

Sonoran-Mexican-American anyone? Maybe we could further narrow it down to the city, street, and bedroom of the particular individual. I know it's an absurd example, but I think you can see my point.

As for freshpersons...that's just fucking stupid. I'm sorry. Anyone that is so screwed up that they can't understand that using male gender in speech is merely a way of simplifying EVERYTHING and not some kind of slight by men against women isn't woth listening to. What did she teach- Herstory? Did she read about oerating her microwave from a womanual?

Gimme a break.

Another reason all this PC labeling is bullshit is that it's all so nebulous and ever-changing. I can hardly keep up. GLBTT? When did the TT get tacked on there? Whats next- GLBTTWTBTBDHTMFTOY? That's Gay-lesbian-bisexual-transnsexual-transgender-want to become transexual but don't have the money for the operation yet, for all you rednecks out there.

Do homosexual people want to be called homosexual, or gay/lesbian, or fags/dykes, or queers this week? What day of the week is it? I tune in CNN and hear gays proclaiming "I'm hear, I'm queer, get used to it". Fine, I'm used to it already, but do you want me to call you queer, or is that reserved only for you, to use for PR purposes? I'm sticking with homosexual, or gay if I'm feeling less formal.

Somebody please write all this shit down and post it on the web so I can read and become enlightened. I really don't want to offend anyone. Really.

Maybe congress should form a government agency to label groups and hand out badges. That would make things a lot easier for all us plain old Americans.

 

[p_p_man]

but people shouldnt have to forget about there ethnic background to be accepted

With that I agree and people don't forget their ethnic backgrounds. As you know we still have arguments in the UK about being Welsh, Scots, Irish or English.

But to call people "Afro-American" or "Native-American" or anything else American brings such attention to their differences it is reminiscent of making Jews wear the Yellow Star of David during the Nazi years just to ensure they could be recognised as Jews.

Actually one thought has just led to another as I wrote that last paragraph. By calling people from a different ethnic background "something-American" isn't that in itself practicing racism by underlying the difference.

Yes the more I think about being politically correct, the more I don't want to be...it only leads to such a twisting of the language as to be more trouble than it's worth, as well as being meaningless in the long run.

 

[Todd]

But to call people "Afro-American" or "Native-American" or anything else American brings such attention to their differences it is reminiscent of making Jews wear the Yellow Star of David during the Nazi years just to ensure they could be recognised as Jews.

Actually one thought has just led to another as I wrote that last paragraph. By calling people from a different ethnic background "something-American" isn't that in itself practicing racism by underlying the difference.

Yes the more I think about being politically correct, the more I don't want to be...it only leads to such a twisting of the language as to be more trouble than it's worth, as well as being meaningless in the long run.

The first two paragraphs are exactly the point I have been trying so inadequately to make. The third paragraph is my result as well.

thank you for putting it in a way the other could understand.