Does astrology work?

[vampiredust]

seriously

my mom is obsessed with horoscopes and astrology books and actually believes that the stuff she reads in the horoscope columns is all true. I'm a little bit skeptical and think it's hokum.

I mean, how is it possible to tell someone's future by looking at the movements of planets?

I don't get this

 

[Pure]

how is it possible to tell someone's future by looking at the movements of planets?


P: well, does casting bones, or reading tea leaves, work [for telling the future]? does aligning your house as per feng shui, work [to improve your luck]?

(astro columns in the big papers are obvious bunk; but arguably that's not 'astrology.')

 

[Misty_Morning]

I read mine every day. In fact I read about 20 each day pertaining to me.

I think some are just hokey. But yes, I believe more in horoscopes than I do my traditional Christian upbringing. In my profession I must understand the relationship of how matter and energy interact and the resulting effects.

Have you never tried to to feel, capture and/or manipulate your energy...your soul...your Karma?

We are part of the universe and the universe has effects upon us.

So...yes...I do.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

there is much much more to your "chart" than just your sun sign--which is all you see in the papers, your horoscope.

Charts can be very accurate, but I don't like to use them for prediction... more like a map... just kind of gives you a way to imagine yourself and your personality...

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

No.

Pycho-somatic, maybe, like other shaman "magic."

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Generally, the math required to do an astrological chart is not available to the practicioners. What you get is an approximation based on plane geometry. The problem is, the orbits of the planets are neither quite planer nor as regular as the geometry assumes. The equations are much more complex.

What is the worth? I would guess, assuming you believe in it, the worth is exactly what you would expect from any self-fufilling prophesy.

 

[RonClarkeson]

Classical!

seriously

my mom is obsessed with horoscopes and astrology books and actually believes that the stuff she reads in the horoscope columns is all true. I'm a little bit skeptical and think it's hokum.

I mean, how is it possible to tell someone's future by looking at the movements of planets?

I don't get this

This is presisely how religions work. They use the same sort of techniques. Spout enough bumph and some of it will become true. You can then say 'told you so!' hey presto you have another believer!

The human condition is generally not a nice place to be and everyone wants to be in a better place. The TV and WWW has made this even more visible.

Any asshole who promises a better future will get a cult following!

Tell your mom the facts of life!

 

[rgraham666]

It works about as well as economics, in my opinion.

 

[R. Richard]

Science is based upon cause and effect.

We then have the question of how the positions of the planets can be a cause. The answer is really quite simple. The sun is not a solid but, in effect, a ball of plasma. The gravitational effects of the planets on the sun will cause the solar radiation to change in subtle ways. You now have a cause.

Can someone trace the cause and predict the effect? I have no idea. However, there is a possible basis for astrology.

 

[Pure]

good point, rr!

---

note to jenny.

the better ephemerides agree with the US Nautical Almanac, but give positions in ecliptic longitude and latitude, instead of right ascension and declination. these ephemerides are available to practitioners.

thus the charts calculated from these ephemerides are reasonably accurate to the degree that the time is known accurately. also the chart calculation programs, e.g. of Astro Computing, are also that accurate (since they use the same underlying equations).

it is true, of course, that the planets do not exactly lie on the ecliptic plane; they have 'latitude', sometimes of 3-4 degress. OTOH, it's not obvious that using ecliptic longitude alone is somehow defective; it's one dimension of measurement. it might also be mentioned that astrologers sometimes use declination, which *does* take into account the distance from the ecliptic plane, indirectly. (IOW declination is a function both of the distance between the equatorial and ecliptic planes at the point in question, and the distance if any --i.e. the latitude-- from the ecliptic plane.)

---
jenny said,

Generally, the math required to do an astrological chart is not available to the practicioners. What you get is an approximation based on plane geometry. The problem is, the orbits of the planets are neither quite planer nor as regular as the geometry assumes. The equations are much more complex.

 

[3113]

seriously

On the "yes" side, there is an argument that if kids are born at a certain time of year (closer or father from the sun), that they turn out a certain way. That's iffy, but there *might* be someting to it. That is, shorter days might make for a Capricorn, longer days a Gemini.

On the absolutely not side.....

Come on. The way the astrological signs were decided--what stars are where at a certain time of year--no longer applies. They've moved and changed. And if planets have an effect on us--magnetic, gravatational, etc., then they'd have the same effect on all of us, not a certain effect on those born in july as compared to those of us born in December.

If that's not convincing, consider this. There was a test done. A professor asked each student in class what their sign was. Then he handed them a short paragraph that supposedly described their sign. The students all agreed the very general description was dead on. The professor then asked them to exchange descriptions...turned out they'd all gotten the SAME description.

None of which will convince your mom. I suggest you buy her this book. It's very funny and maybe it will help her to not take it all too seriously:

Darkside Zodiac

 

[Boxlicker101]

I read the horoscopes sometimes but don't take them seriously. I am quite sure they are pure bunk. I'm a Libra, by the way, and we Libras are hard to trick because we are smart and can calculate and think things over.

 

[3113]

I read the horoscopes sometimes but don't take them seriously. I am quite sure they are pure bunk. I'm a Libra, by the way, and we Libras are hard to trick because we are smart and can calculate and think things over.

According to the "Darkside Zodiac" you are:

A vain, shallow, petulant spendthrift with an unerring eye for style over substance and a liflong dedication to the quest for an easy meal ticket.

In regards to toothpaste:

You don't have toothpaste in tubes sicne squeezing involves effort. You have three kinds of pump-action dispenser instead and there is always an intimate friend around to help you choose which flavor you want.

Accurate?

Don't worry, the book insults everyone.

 

[wordofvirtue]

All I really know about the subject is in my natal (birth) chart, the planet Venus is in the sign Scorpio, which I share in common with some well-known psychosexual deviants/serial killers

It explains a lot??????? hehehehe

 

[Pure]

incidentally, the advice column, broken down by sun signs, that you see in newspapers is NOT a horoscope.

note to 3113

If that's not convincing, consider this. There was a test done. A professor asked each student in class what their sign was. Then he handed them a short paragraph that supposedly described their sign. The students all agreed the very general description was dead on. The professor then asked them to exchange descriptions...turned out they'd all gotten the SAME description.

i think this 'method' would also--ostensibly--apply to results of psychological tests or personality inventories.

----
that said, probably there are not 12 well defined categories of types of people. (indeed the best astrological treatises never made this claim.) however the ancient theory of four types, according to the 'humors' [bilious, melancholic, etc.] seems to still have some validity to some psychologists.

to take a similar and analogous case: many of us have a picture of an Englishman [person] and a Frenchman. we think they're different. many find a grain of truth in a stereotype that the former is more steady and methodical than the latter, who's more volatile and unpredictable. THAT SAID, if you actually poll English persons you do find a wide variety, including some that are very temperamental and volatile. Same for the French; there are some very down to earth, steady, methodical ones.

yet the stereotypes live on. perhaps there's a grain of truth in them?

---
note to 'word of virtue'.

i will bet you a doughnut that if we establish a list of sexually twisted multiple murderers, their 'venus' signs will not significantly fall more in scorpio, than, say, in libra, a supposedly good place. the distribution in of venus in the signs will essentialy be random.

examples:
Bundy had Venus in Scorpio, yes.

however,
Gacy had Venus in Aquarius (birthdate 3/17/42)

Leonard Lake had Venus in Libra (date 10/29/45) OR
maybe in Virgo (7/20/46-- another birthdate given in some sources)

Ian Brady (moors murderer) had venus in capricorn (date 1/2/38)

Jeff Dahmer, venus in taurus [good position, in most sources](date 5/21/60)

 

[Liar]

Every prediction is a potentional self fulfilling prophecy.

If you believe you're destined to marry a blonde, you'll be on the lookout for blondes.

 

[Huckleman2000]

The idea about gravitational pull of planets and so forth is bunk - the person delivering the baby exerts more gravitational pull than any planet.

Having said that, I do know for a fact that Scorpios are usually evil.

 

[Liar]

Science is based upon cause and effect.

We then have the question of how the positions of the planets can be a cause. The answer is really quite simple. The sun is not a solid but, in effect, a ball of plasma. The gravitational effects of the planets on the sun will cause the solar radiation to change in subtle ways. You now have a cause.

Can someone trace the cause and predict the effect? I have no idea. However, there is a possible basis for astrology.

So we should instead log sun spot activity for our birthdays. Since that causes variations in solar radiation that makes planetary involvement look like a fart in a hurricane.


But I'm a pisces, and we're naturally sceptic. Says one astrologer. Another says we're spiritual believers. Feh.

 

[sweetnpetite]

seriously

my mom is obsessed with horoscopes and astrology books and actually believes that the stuff she reads in the horoscope columns is all true. I'm a little bit skeptical and think it's hokum.

I mean, how is it possible to tell someone's future by looking at the movements of planets?

I don't get this

how come solar flares mess up my tv?

if the heavenly bodies can effect my tv and the oceans, why can't they effect me?

of course, to write a horroscope in the paper, you don't have to know what you are doing... many of them are just made up!

But if you are interested in Astrology, you MUST check out Linda Goodman.

 

[sweetnpetite]

If that's not convincing, consider this. There was a test done. A professor asked each student in class what their sign was. Then he handed them a short paragraph that supposedly described their sign. The students all agreed the very general description was dead on. The professor then asked them to exchange descriptions...turned out they'd all gotten the SAME description.

I've heard this story but that doesn't make it true. I don't know if I've EVER seen any documentation about it, even though my psych teacher told us this too, but it could be an "urban legend."

Astrollogy isn't an urban legend it is a very ancient science (yes, it is considered a psudoscience now, but it WAS considered a science at one time at least) from which astronomy was eventually formed. Unfortunatly, it's not very well understood and any quack can claim to be an astrolloger.

Astrollogy wasn't invented in the 60's to give guys in lounge suits an easy pick-up line!

I'm not saying anyone has to believe in it, but it's not just some new age fad, it has a very long and distinguished history and I think it diserves a helava lot more credit than it recieves.

 

[3113]

Having said that, I do know for a fact that Scorpios are usually evil.

Darkside Zodaic says you are:

an obsessive, possessive manipulator with an unquenchable lust for power and perchant for degradation.

In regards to toothpaste:

You neither leave the lid off the toothpaste nor squeeze it from the middle...you either use rocksalt and a twig or minimalist Japanese designer devices that disgorge paste in precise, bead-shaped portions.

Accurate

 

[scheherazade_79]

I swear by Jonathan Cainer. His horoscopes are written in a really beautiful, lyrical way... and although I'm a sceptic in most things, I actually listen to what he has to say.

 

[3113]

But I'm a pisces, and we're naturally sceptic. Says one astrologer. Another says we're spiritual believers. Feh.

I kind of figured you for a pisces. Darkside Zodiac has this to say about you and toothpaste:

You squeeze from the middle and leave the cap off, but are usually using a tube of shaving gell or hemorrhoid cream because you don't do small print; blame the bathroom's owner when you throw up.

Accurate?

 

[3113]

I've heard this story but that doesn't make it true. I don't know if I've EVER seen any documentation about it, even though my psych teacher told us this too, but it could be an "urban legend."

Sorry, not an "urban legend" the experiment is done in classes to this day. Here's an article by a student of such a class taken form July 2006 (I'll skip down to the relelvant section, but full article can be found here Birmingham Post):

Coventry University now boasts this course which covers everything from ESP (extra sensory perception) and psychokinesis to the survival of bodily death and mediumship.

Myself being very interested in the supernatural from an early age, intrigued but also scared of the unknown, I decided to take part in a parapsychology course as part of my degree.

When I applied we were asked to give our full names, place of birth, date of birth and time of birth as we would receive our very own personal horoscope - I was going to frame mine.

On the first day the horoscopes were handed out and we were asked to read through them. The lecturer asked us to stand up if we believed this was exactly right - 35 out of the 120 students stood up.

He then asked people to stand up if we thought it was exactly right apart from one thing, the rest of the class including myself stood up.

They were all the same.

This must be a joke, I thought. It even said I was going to be rich.

Our first lecture showed the group how all horoscopes are all lies. A experiment had been conducted looking into NHS medical records and horoscope predictions on health and only 7 per cent were correct.

A further experiment looked into professions. All horoscopes tell you what job you will take in your future but again only only five per cent were correct.

Those are pretty bad percentages of accuracy. I don't think most gamblers would place a bet on them.

Astrollogy isn't an urban legend it is a very ancient science (yes, it is considered a psudoscience now, but it WAS considered a science at one time at least) from which astronomy was eventually formed....it has a very long and distinguished history and I think it diserves a helava lot more credit than it recieves.

Alchemy, transforming lead into gold, was also considered a science and we got chemistry from it. It was even studied by Newton. All the same, it's still bunk. Just because something is old or WAS considered a science doesn't give it validity, nor should it give it credit. In science, the only validity or credit anything is given is if it can stand up to the scientific method. If it can't, it's neither valid nor creditable, no matter how old and venerated.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I had a guy come up to me and say that I would never be happy because my , umm... Venus was in Scorpio, and my, um... something or another was somewhere else. He said that I would always want security but never be able to settle down.

I told him that he STILL wasn't going to get into my pants.

Oddly enough, he was right- except that I founds some good compromises, and managed to be fairly happy after all.

Oh, and 3113- I'm an Aries