Does anyone really use Quark?

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I've got it. I'm learning it. I can't see why I need it. Even on a professional level. Isn't Photoshop so good now (with all its layers), that a layout program like Quark is just redundant?

There must be a professional "lab" reason for Quark's continued existance. What is it?

 

[lobito]

I've got it. I'm learning it. I can't see why I need it. Even on a professional level. Isn't Photoshop so good now (with all it's layers), that a layout program like Quark is just redundant?

There must be a professional "lab" reason for Quark's continued existance. What is it?

The problem is more that the pro printers won't accept anything other than Quark, even if done on a PC, it has most of the time, to be saved in Mac format.

I ran into this problem a few years ago, when I designed some baseball cards for our local Minor League team, and they rejected a CD full of formats, because I didn't have it in Quark format as well. I had to run all over town the day before vacation to have them converted, because the printer didn't tell me they only accepted Quark in the first place.

Lo

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: Re: Does anyone really use Quark?

The problem is more that the pro printers won't accept anything other than Quark, even if done on a PC, it has most of the time, to be saved in Mac format.

I don't believe this to be true, especially not anymore.

My last job was developing software for one of the premiere prepress software companies and I know a lot of printing people, and I know a bit about the PS output of Quark - of all of the software that outputs PS, only MS word did a worse job. We had more workarounds in our software to handle Quark PS output than any other layout program.

PhotoShop is okay, but considering both PS and PDF are Adobe standards, they did not do a very good job of putting out good PS or PDF.

The probable reason the shop(s) (how many?) you went to only accepted Quark was because that was the only layout program they knew - probably because someone who started or ran the shop only knew Quark. Most shops will accept just about any layout program output, although they prefer certain ones, and they usually prefer Mac output. The PC/Mac bias has changed over the last 5 years or so as most layout and prepress software companies offer their software on both platforms.

The big publishing houses (Donnelly, etc.) are going to PC only.

 

[Spinaroonie]

STG- WTF? PDF's rule!

 

[Guest]

Use Quark?

I invented the word, bucko!

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

STG- WTF? PDF's rule!

Rule what?

Print shops? Not yet! PostScript still rules there.

For web output? No! It sucks there - HTML rules for online output.

PDF is good if you want to output something electronically that you are printing, and you want to transfer that output to someone as close as you can to what you are printing. Things like catalogs, brochures, etc., work well in PDF - if your workflow is geared for PDF (most aren't - yet) and everything goes well.

PDF will eventually replace PS, but it hasn't yet, and it will take some time. For one thing PS is a language, whereas PDF really isn't (it is more of a database format specialized for page descriptions) and there are still things you can do with PS that you can't with PDF.

The flexibility of PS is also its downfall; just like I can write shitty Java or C++ and still have it compile and work after a fashion, DTP apps can output shitty PS. Outputting bad PDF is a bit harder.

Still, for B&W output, PDF is making significant inroads, but for color there is still a lot of work to be done. I say this after spending almost 3 years working on a native PDF only workflow prepress product - PDF input, PDF inside, and PDF output.

 

[claude_moveml]

I thought you were talking about the soft cheese...

 

[on_the_verge]

Originally posted by Shy Tall Guy
Rule what?

Print shops? Not yet! PostScript still rules there.

Postscript was to my knowledge is an Adobe product and I do not know the actual developer. Postscript is the language that most printers and software applications understand and know how to interpit. When you spool a file to a RIP, it's postscript and when you collect for output and for compatibility between applications, it's postscript. Postscript, so far is the most accurate way to have WYSIWG, but it also depends on hardware, software, calibration, the user, etc. I don't see postscript going away for a while, but technology has it's cravats.

For web output? No! It sucks there - HTML rules for online output.

Forget HTML, I have been learning XTML and XML. HTML is very tricky to work with and there is no uniformity across platforms and coding. XTML and XML allows there to be uniformity in coding and allows cleaner coding for browsers and developers.

PDF is good if you want to output something electronically that you are printing, and you want to transfer that output to someone as close as you can to what you are printing. Things like catalogs, brochures, etc., work well in PDF - if your workflow is geared for PDF (most aren't - yet) and everything goes well.

Portable Document Format (PDF). Pdf was developed so that no matter what operating system you are running or application, another can view the file as the way it was created—even if the other does not have the application that the original file was created in. Pdf also reduces the file size and allows you to view vector graphics at any resolution without the pixilation of bit mapped graphics. Pdf is a way to improve workflow and improve production by allowing people to annotate, change or do write ups on files if you are collaborating with clients from the other end of the globe. Pdf, when it finally develops to be able to use CMYK effectively, will allow people to create files and output them in outer cities or countries and have the files print or viewed as they arte created, There by, reducing costs and improving production.

Programs like Pit Stop Pro, allows you to preflight and have greater control over your Pdf files and be able to trouble shoot and edit the file beyond the tools Adobe has provided.

PDF will eventually replace PS, but it hasn't yet, and it will take some time. For one thing PS is a language, whereas PDF really isn't (it is more of a database format specialized for page descriptions) and there are still things you can do with PS that you can't with PDF.

And vice versa


The flexibility of PS is also its downfall; just like I can write shitty Java or C++ and still have it compile and work after a fashion, DTP apps can output shitty PS. Outputting bad PDF is a bit harder.

Pit Stop Pro and hopefully further developments.

Still, for B&W output, PDF is making significant inroads, but for color there is still a lot of work to be done. I say this after spending almost 3 years working on a native PDF only workflow prepress product - PDF input, PDF inside, and PDF output.

Pdf, I still love you!

 

[FieryKitty]

And don't forget all the newspapers and magazines out there using Quark. Advertisers seem to love PDF and don't understand that it doesn't quite all smoothly run together with postscript. So it's easy for them but they don't see the hoops others have to jump through when they insist on e-mailing these files.

Isn't Photoshop so good now (with all its layers), that a layout program like Quark is just redundant?

Well, not really. Small type just doesn't reproduce as well in print from a photoshop document. You need a page layout program for that.

 

[Cherry]

because...

90% of designers use Quark for commercial printing.

It also has the BEST color separation options available.

Just those two reasons (compatibility and color separation) is why ... but from a typesetting standpoint, it can't be beat, as well.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

When you spool a file to a RIP, it's postscript and when you collect for output and for compatibility between applications, it's postscript. Postscript, so far is the most accurate way to have WYSIWG, but it also depends on hardware, software, calibration, the user, etc.

There are a number of native PDF RIPs that take PDF in, RIP it in PDF, and output appropriate for the device without ever translating to PS. The main shortcoming so far has been color output, but that is being addressed. PDF also is an Adobe standard.

I don't see postscript going away for a while, but technology has it's cravats.

PS is in the process of going away now - the main problem has been that while Adobe has been hyping PDF for years, their support has been lacking. When I was working on a PDF product they had 1-2 people at most working on their PDF support (PDF libs, RIPs, etc.) and their response to support requests was, how shall I say, sub-optimal. I am talking development support here, not support for their PDF products such as Acrobat.

For web output? No! It sucks there - HTML rules for online output.

Forget HTML, I have been learning XTML and XML.

XML is great for the future, but it is is not a text markup language; it is more of a database description language with interesting applications for the web. I do not see it replacing HTML as much as it will be an adjunctive in addition to HTML. XHTML (not XTML which is an acronym that stands for a number of completely different things) is just that; HTML with XML.

The main value of XML for the web is that in the future search engines won't be searching for words, but for content data objects. Instead of searching for a particular picture by a word that you might find in a title or caption, you can search by an XML description that will "know" they type of content you are looking for, and find it whether the adjoining text matches or not.

Starting with HTML and learning the basics is not a bad way to go before progressing on to XHTML and XML, but to each their own. My exposure to XML is using it to describe a database schema and using a SAX parser, but I mostly did higher level stuff.

Portable Document Format (PDF). Pdf was developed so that no matter what operating system you are running or application, another can view the file as the way it was created

That is how it works in theory, and most markup languages, including PS and HTML work towards similar ends. In practice, PDF still sucks for most printing output, especially with regards to color.

 

[on_the_verge]

I am actually tired of Quark and how they believe they will neve be unseated. Quark, thanks for the upgrades and how you took so long to meet my needs and the clients. You sit on your ass because you believe you will be the prevailing industry standard and you give me what, vesion 5? I am too tired to fight with you, but maybe you should roll over your covers and see what is happenig when Mr. Sandman is gracing your sleep perchance you shall never have to wake and answer your customers calls.

Rock a bye babby on the tree top…

http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/15512.html

STG, I see your points, but I have been at work all day and now is not the time to be a geek, but to be a slut.