Does America needs Texas? Is she embarrassed?

[Guest]

435 years for delivery of cocaine? Sure thing, in Texas, if you're black.

Inasmuch as I can tell, what has happened in Tulia, Texas, is that a single undercover police officer, with problematic details in his own personal history (including a warrant for theft from a sheriff's department) has singlehandedly brought down Tulia, Texas' drug trade.

46 arrests ... 40 of the accused are black. Those 40 arrests constitute 17% of the estimated black population (232) of Tulia.

I would like to offer an excerpt, which I will title, "Justice if You're Black":

The lawsuit was filed on behalf of Yul Bryant, who was held in jail for seven months on cocaine distribution charges. Those charges were eventually dropped after undercover deputy Coleman admitted he wasn't "100% sure" he had actually bought cocaine from Bryant. Bryant was more fortunate than Billy Wafer, who, according to the ACLU's Harrell, will soon become a co-plaintiff in Bryant's lawsuit. Wafer also spent months in jail before questions about informer Coleman's credibility got him released pending trial.

Even Wafer's small victory in temporarily regaining his freedom reveals a disturbing picture of Swisher County justice. Wafer had six months left to go on a 10-year probation for marijuana possession when he was arrested and jailed for arranging the sale of an eightball (3.5 grams) of cocaine. At a probation revocation hearing, Deputy Coleman testified he had met Bryant at a convenience store to do the deal, but Wafer had a rock solid alibi: He was at work, and he had timecards and his boss's supporting testimony to back him up.

State District Judge Edward Self rejected Coleman's testimony, declined to revoke Wafer's probation, and ordered him released pending trial. But although Coleman's discredited story was the only evidence against Wafer, District Attorney McEachern did not move to drop the charges, nor did Judge Self order them dismissed. Instead, McEachern offered to let Wafer plead to a reduced charge with no jail time.

http://www.drcnet.org/wol/154.html#tulia

Realizing that most of my tantrums concerning this War Against Humanity come from sources sympathetic to drug legalization, I thought I might throw in a perspective from a Texas newspaper:

But the race of the defendants is not the only troubling aspect of the Tulia drug bust. There is also the evidence. Agent Coleman did not wear a wire during any of the alleged transactions. No video surveillance was done, and no second officer was available to corroborate his reports. Such measures, commonly employed by Department of Public Safety narcotics agents, were too dangerous for an agent operating in a small, tight-knit community, according to Sheriff Larry Stewart. In most cases, there were no witnesses at all, other than Coleman himself. Testifying in the first few trials, Coleman claimed to have recorded names, dates, and other pertinent facts about the buys by writing on his leg.

or the newspaper's note on the "evidence":

According to his own testimony, Coleman made contact with a community of low-income crack smokers, primarily young black men. But strangely, almost every buy Coleman made was of powdered cocaine.

And how do you make sure to expedite your inquisition?

Freddie Brookins, 22, received 20 years for one count of delivering an eight-ball. He had no prior record. Another defendant with no priors, 23-year-old Kizzie Henry, got 25 years. (For comparison, in another bust that made news last year, Laurie Hiett, the wife of the head of the U.S. Army's counter-drug force in Columbia, was sentenced for smuggling over $700,000 worth of cocaine and heroin into the United States. She got five years.) The harsh sentences handed down early sent a message to the other defendants, who began to accept long sentences in plea bargains with District Attorney Terry McEachern. Fewer than 10 defendants are still awaiting trial.

http://www.auschron.com/issues/dispatch/2000-07-28/pols_feature3.html

The Austin Chronicle story goes on to recount how one of the people busted by Deputy Coleman not only bought crack (not the powdered cocaine most of the arrested were charged with) for the Deputy, but smoked it with him in Coleman's truck.

I mean, sure he's got George Bush Jr.'s precedent of helping lock people up for that which you won't be, but isn't this just a little out of hand? One officer? No notes? No evidence? Only the testimony of the one officer, who happens to have a shady past?

And what do you get for sharing your crack with an officer?

With no prior felony convictions, Smith was prepared to plea bargain. The small amounts he had delivered, combined with his status as a first-time felony offender, he figured, gave him a good shot at probation. Then he read the indictments. He was accused of delivering cocaine to Coleman on seven separate occasions. But only one delivery was alleged to be crack cocaine. The other deliveries were said to be powder, in amounts between one and four grams -- making them second-degree felonies. The D.A. offered Smith 45 years.

232 people in Tulia with dark skin. One day's worth of raiding left 35 orphans of this Drug War. 17% of Tulia's blacks are under indictment or convicted; 15% are orphaned.

Ah ... we might also mention that Deputy Coleman is currently under investigation for perjury--that is, he lied about his past arrest record while establishing his credibility as a witness in Billy Wafer's probation hearing.

And this is the thing I don't get about it: it's in Texas. For all the dumb stereotypes about Texas, one thing that truly does puzzle me is the difference between white and non-white. Only a couple of years ago, the Department of Justice decided not to intervine when United States Marines shot a 15 year-old hispanic boy in the back while he was tending sheep. The Marines were able to convince DoJ that they had probable cause to suspect that Esquivel Hernandez was a drug kingpin, and that excuse was good enough. (BTW, any USMC out there who can tell me what the Corps was doing patrolling inside American borders, policing American citizens, covertly observing and murdering 15 year-olds?)

What's going on? In Texas? In the USA? In this stupid, stupid Drug War?

No matter how you cut this one, I assert that the social price far outweighs the social re

 

[Texan]

CV, your post is mostly bullshit, but then again, when you plaigerize a post, you're likely to post bullshit.

Your post was a C&P from the "sciforum" wesite. Don't worry, I let tiassa (the original author) know that you copied and pasted her post to another board, without giving credit for to the author.

I knew when I read your post that you don't have the mental ability to put that many words together without countless grammatical errors. Plus, your idea of "research" involves taking on another ID and trying to flirt with young naive newbies.

The original author chose only the parts of the case she wanted to present, while leaving out more than half the relevant facts. Just the ignorant way the author portrayed the killing of the Mexican teenager demonstrates her extreme bias. The Mexican kid wasn't mistaken for a "drug kingpin," he was shooting a 22 cal. rifle at the uniformed soldiers.

The original author is "for" legalization of drugs and against the "war on drugs." That's fine, many rational people have the same views, however when they lie and distort the truth, they hurt their cause.

CV, you are intellectually dishonest. But that's no surprise.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Two things:

1.) The Harrell of the ACLU is Will Harrell... He's the coolest lawyer you will ever meet. The Texas ACLU is under the best hands I think they could be in.

2.) if you want to go and talk about drug problems, racist police and framing and all that in Texas, you only have to say one word. "Sheetrock". I'll let you google it and see what you can come up with.

 

[Myrrdin]

Tulia

Well the BBC just spent an hour of Sunday night prime time programming covering the case. Where a bunch of poor black people were imprisoned for drug dealing on the say of one undercover officer. With no fingerprints, no cocaine and no corroborating evidence. And a Texas jury convicted them . Says something about the Texas justice system?

 

[Guest]

CV, your post is mostly bullshit, but then again, when you plaigerize a post, you're likely to post bullshit.

Your post was a C&P from the "sciforum" wesite. Don't worry, I let tiassa (the original author) know that you copied and pasted her post to another board, without giving credit for to the author.

I knew when I read your post that you don't have the mental ability to put that many words together without countless grammatical errors. Plus, your idea of "research" involves taking on another ID and trying to flirt with young naive newbies.

The original author chose only the parts of the case she wanted to present, while leaving out more than half the relevant facts. Just the ignorant way the author portrayed the killing of the Mexican teenager demonstrates her extreme bias. The Mexican kid wasn't mistaken for a "drug kingpin," he was shooting a 22 cal. rifle at the uniformed soldiers.

The original author is "for" legalization of drugs and against the "war on drugs." That's fine, many rational people have the same views, however when they lie and distort the truth, they hurt their cause.

CV, you are intellectually dishonest. But that's no surprise.

Well the BBC just spent an hour of Sunday night prime time programming covering the case. Where a bunch of poor black people were imprisoned for drug dealing on the say of one undercover officer. With no fingerprints, no cocaine and no corroborating evidence. And a Texas jury convicted them . Says something about the Texas justice system?

 

[8ball]

Re: Tulia

Well the BBC just spent an hour of Sunday night prime time programming covering the case. Where a bunch of poor black people were imprisoned for drug dealing on the say of one undercover officer. With no fingerprints, no cocaine and no corroborating evidence. And a Texas jury convicted them . Says something about the Texas justice system?

Is this an oops, CV?

Nice, copy paste.

 

[p_p_man]

The good thing that came out of tonight's programme...

'Correspondent' if you didn't know, is that the whole episode is under investigation by the FBI. Texas has now passed the Tulia Law which states that undercover agents must carry tape recorders and have their evidence corroborated by another party.

They reckon it's another watershed, raising the issue of Civil Rights all over again.

But at least the authorities are doing something about Tulia. But how a bloke with a dodgy background can get a job as a law enforcement officer with a private law enforcement company, which itself is not accountable to anyone, I don't know...

Don't tell me this is normal in the US, please don't tell me...

ppman

 

[Guest]

Re: The good thing that came out of tonight's programme...

But how a bloke with a dodgy background can get a job as a law enforcement officer with a private law enforcement company, which itself is not accountable to anyone, I don't know...

Don't tell me this is normal in the US, please don't tell me...

ppman

It's because I'm in the Whitehouse.

 

[REDWAVE]

"Just us"

The so-called "criminal justice" system, not just in Texas but throughout the U.S., is a racist, class-based system of injustice, oppression, and persecution. The system is criminal; many of its victims are not.

Texan is a racist McCarthyite scumbag. Him accusing anyone else of intellectual dishonesty is a real hoot-- pots and kettles!

 

[Lancecastor]

Texas. Rogue state within a rogue state.

Texans. Barbarians. Thugs. Racists.

 

[Mischka]

Thanks for the stereotype, Lance. I'll have to work on my Thuggery.

The imbalance of drug prosecution among the races is well documented. Spin's reference to sheetrock is just the latest in Texas' shameful handling of drug enforcement cases. This is simply another sign of why the War on Drugs is inherently flawed. As long as there is a demand, there will always be a supply. The police are simply sticking their finger in the dam, and obviously are resorting to desperate measures to justify their jobs.

 

[Guest]

*shrugging* I'm not from these here parts.

 

[p_p_man]

Texas. Rogue state within a rogue state.

Texans. Barbarians. Thugs. Racists.

Bow legged men, big breasted women, hats measured in gallons...

ppman

 

[fgarvb1]

Hey! why don't the whole bunch of you sit on it and rotate.

I remember the time when getting caught with a joint would get you the choice of many years in prison or join the armed forces.

Not good back in them days. Prison was really prison and there was this little thing called vietnam going on.

White, black or green it didn't matter.

Yes, our system of justice needs work and our law enforcement needs to improve.

Dudes this is not news.

I might add when one considers what they are up against they do over all a good job.

 

[Guest]

Texas. Rogue state within a rogue state.

Texans. Barbarians. Thugs. Racists.

I would hate to hear what you have to say about Arizona the Mustang State

 

[fgarvb1]

Bow legged men, big breasted women, hats measured in gallons...

ppman

Come for a visit. Texas is not anything like you think it is. It is a whole lot more.

It's a whole nother country.

 

[someplace]

Bow legged men, big breasted women, hats measured in gallons...

Isn't it past your bedtime yet, or are you like the undead who never need to sleep?

To answer the general question of this thread title, ONE MORE TIME, Texas has the right to decide to split itself up into as many as five separate states, should it so desire. With a population pushing 22,000,000 (which is projected to be between 35-40,000,000 by the year 2040) you can't always get everything right, but damn they sure do a lot right. So much so, that all y'all give some the impression that you've got an inferiority complex about us or something. The short answer is that the United States needs Texas much more than Texas needs the United States.

That's okay ppman darlin' those bow-legged men and big breasted women (don't I WISH!) are leaders in electronics, medical, biotechnology, aerospace, advanced materials, and energy-related research which help allow America to maintain a competitive advantage in world markets. (Can you say SPACE or HEART TRANSPLANTS or best CANCER MEDICAL CENTER in the world? I know you can)

It's just that kind of small minded sterotyping above that allows Texans to kick major butt in board rooms all around the world. And we're soooooooo nice while doing it too. Makes ya kinda sick, doesn't it?

I'm not saying we're perfect by any means. I am saying it's a very large place with a very large population. There are going to be problems and it's so easy to use isolated incidents and/or twisted "facts" to paint broad strokes. What chicken shit! Why don't we discuss the problems inherent in protecting the zillion miles of border with Mexico (you know, where all the people risk their lives every day to get INTO Texas). As the great granddaughter of a Texas Ranger and cousin to sheriffs, police chiefs and state troopers, I can tell you that their lives are put on the line every day in ways most people don't want to think about. Most citizens are glad someone is out there doing the job.

Sooooooooo if we want to paint broad strokes, we COULD make sweeping statements about Britain and Northern Ireland, couldn't we??? [But Bluespoke will jump my ass again, so I'll refrain, but I'm sure you get my point] Or how about asking whether the English are embarrassed to have the Scots in their kingdom (although we both know it's probably the other way around). But Bluespoke will probably jump my ass for that too.

 

[fgarvb1]

Isn't it past your bedtime yet, or are you like the undead who never need to sleep?

To answer the general question of this thread title, ONE MORE TIME, Texas has the right to decide to split itself up into as many as five separate states, should it so desire. With a population pushing 22,000,000 (which is projected to be between 35-40,000,000 by the year 2040) you can't always get everything right, but damn they sure do a lot of right. So much so, that all y'all give some the impression that you've got an inferiority complex about us or something. The short answer is that the United States needs Texas much more than Texas needs the United States.

That's okay ppman darlin' those bow-legged men and big breasted women (don't I WISH!) are leaders in electronics, medical, biotechnology, aerospace, advanced materials, and energy-related research which help allow American to maintain a competitive advantage in world markets. (Can you say SPACE or HEART TRANSPLANTS or best CANCER MEDICAL CENTER in the world? I know you can)

It's just that kind of small minded sterotyping above that allows Texans to kick major butt in board rooms all around the world. And we're soooooooo nice while doing it too. Makes ya kinda sick, doesn't it?

I'm not saying we're perfect by any means. I am saying it's a very large place with a very large population. There are going to be problems and it's so easy to use isolated incidents and/or twisted "facts" to paint broad strokes. What chicken shit! Why don't we discuss the problems inherent in protecting the zillion miles of border with Mexico (you know, where all the people risk their lives every day to get INTO Texas). As the great granddaughter of a Texas Ranger and cousin to sheriffs, police chiefs and state troopers, I can tell you that their lives are put on the line every day in ways most people don't want to think about. Most citizens are glad someone is out there doing the job.

Sooooooooo if we want to paint broad strokes, we COULD make sweeping statements about Britain and Northern Ireland, couldn't we??? [But Bluespoke will jump my ass again, so I'll refrain, but I'm sure you get my point] Or how about asking whether the English are embarrassed to have the Scots in their kingdom (although we both know it's probably the other way around). But Bluespoke will probably jump ass for that too.

MY GOD WOMAN!

We have enough people moving here now!

Keep 'em in the dark !

 

[someplace]

MY GOD WOMAN!

We have enough people moving here now!

Keep 'em in the dark !

Look, I didn't mention how high our median income or how low our housing costs are. Let 'em think we're still out on the range with six shooters blazing and ridin' horses to work. That's okay. Bluesboy just reminded me that some Texas counties, hell some RANCHES here are larger than some European countries. You and I both go back many generations and so you understand why sometimes I just get a little tired of the Texas-bashing. I'll be back to my normal fluffy self soon enough. *smoochies to you farbergarver*

 

[Texan]

hello someplace, darlin. We don't have to defend Texas against the likes of REDWAVE, CV, ppman and Lancecastor. When those oddities of humanity criticize something, nobody listens anyway.

RED is against law enforcement of any kind. In fact, he's pretty much against laws in general; unless of course the laws would overturn the government that permits and supports his lazy liftstyle.

CV is a mental giant that can't do anything but C&P the writings of others without giving credit. CV is a worn out byproduct of the old DannyboyUK fiasco.

ppman is a ward of the British state, who gets drunk most nights then vents his jealousy of all things American. We don't want to tell him that this little old state of Texas has a larger economy than his entire country.

And Lancecastor, the ditzy dom who spent most of his day searching through my old posts and bumping them up without comment. I'd feel special if he hadn't already done that to most of the other people that he doesn't like.

Like most opinionated people here, I've made a few enemies at Lit, and a whole lot of friends. With these quality examples of humanity comprising my short list of "enemies," then I'm feeling pretty good about the time I spend here.

Mischka, I'm not for an instant argueing the merits of the war on drugs. I mentioned that in my first post on this thread. I'm not even argueing that part of what was in the article that CV C&P'ed is accurate. I won't argue that Texas, along with most other states, have a rare few rogue police officers. What I was pointing out was the dishonesty of selecting only part of one story and completely distorting another story, and then using that to draw conclusions. If the foundation is distorted, then it's likely the conclusions will be distorted. More frequently, someone starts with the conclusion then finds the supporting evidence. When this is the method, they find it necessary to discard the evidence that doesn't support the pre-established conclusion. (Damn, I'm describing REDWAVE's normal mental process.)

I feel certain that people like REDWAVE, CV, ppman and Lancecastor would be much less outspoken with their "opinions" if they didn't have the anonymity of the internet to hide behind. Like most Texans, I am equally as comfortable expressing my opinions in person. I'm also equally as confident in my ability to defend my opinions, "in person."

 

[fgarvb1]

"farbergarver" I haven't smiled that big in at least a week.
My cheeks hurt.

Yes, i get tired of the Texas bashing too.

I guess we should forgive them and turn a deaf ear.

Hells bells, it's not like they have a clue what they are talking about.


and thanks for the smooch!

 

[bknight2602]

IMHO Yes we need Texas.

 

[Guest]

Texas is alot like Arizona

Both states make better people out of you

Both states are a little bit on the wild and hard side

 

[fgarvb1]

Hey, Texan.

In real life i'm not shy about stating my opinions either.

I do try to get along with people unless they just won't have it any other way.

I don't like to fight myself and never was very good it. One fight i was knock out three times before i got mad enough to really get into it good. When i get cranked up i don't like to stop.

I don't recall fighting anyone twice, win or lose.

 

[Texan]

Hey, Texan.

In real life i'm not shy about stating my opinions either.

I do try to get along with people unless they just won't have it any other way.

I don't like to fight myself and never was very good it. One fight i was knock out three times before i got mad enough to really get into it good. When i get cranked up i don't like to stop.

I don't recall fighting anyone twice, win or lose.

howz east Texas tonight? I saw the sun today for the first time in a looooong time. It sure felt good to walk around the place in shorts.

Texans quickly learn how to get along with other people. Hell, if they don't learn quickly, they won't live long enough for it to matter.

Last Saturday night, I took my wife out to a small local bar. A couple of dimestore plowboys got into a tussle. Someone called the police, but by the time they arrived, the two were buying each other beers and laughing together. The cops looked dissapointed.

I actually think I could enjoy having a cold beer (not one of those warm european beers) with sir ppman. He has a civil side about him. If I was in a bar with REDWAVE, I'd keep my hand on my wallet the whole time. If I was drinking with Lance, I'd .... oh hell, I wouldn't be drinking with Lance.

Fargv%&*&%#@#$% next time you get down this way, give me a hollar and I'll buy YOU a beer. If someplace joins us, I'll buy a pitcher of ritas.