Docile & Stupid

[Pure]

hey, get your hands off each other's cocks!

this circle jerk is getting a bit tedious.

i give jbj applause for one main suggestion

jbj: Where I live we're plagued with several expensive problems. Land is expensive; home insurance is expensive; roads are congested and expensive to build; potable water is scarce; and taxes are out of control.

You solve all the problems by consolidating people, commerce, etc. in square mile size complexes of multiple levels. Recreation at the very top, transportation on the bottom-level. Connect the complexes with mono-
rail and limited access roads. Think of Disney World.

This area was once a large agricultural region. Now houses are built on the fertile soil.

P: much of the rest is amicus' rant against the usual enemies, with jbj seconding much of it.

it was great to hear of amicus' ambition, devoted as he is to 'the human spirit':

If I ever manage to complete this work and it is kindly received, I fully suspect to receive, posthumously, smiles, the same kind of criticism that the late Ayn Rand does, at my thesis is entirely free market oriented.

it's good that he set his sights on equalling a truly BAD novelist; i'd suggest he may be there already, so long as he uses words that are not too long.


it's great to hear another 'free market' utopia is being designed up in the airy reaches of what we charitably call, amicus' brain. presumably it will be powered by Galt machines and perpetual motion dynamos, so that no one has to worry about the common good.

the real world proceeds apace: capitalism becomes more communal; some 'socialist experiments' conduct trials with "market solutions." mixed economies, like Norway and France thrive. the empirical approach, rather than the ideological.

returning to the thread topic. thanks jbj. it seems the woman may well be doing 'the right thing.' i don't see "moral superiority" being trumpeted, merely a factual claim: a) what she's doing is good for the planet; b) the planet would benefit were many women [with partners], esp. in developed countries, to do the same. certainly the planet is adequately supplied with human babies; to meet the only substantive argument of jbj, surely the thousands being born every minute can give rise to all the Roarks necessary.

none of her detractors here has touched her basic claim of benefit to the planet; right wing mudslinging at the woman is evidence of the degree of "rationality" in these individuals--oops, i should say 'persons': amicus' thinking is about as 'individual' as the one millionth pulp copy of Atlas Shrugged to roll off the presses.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

PURE

If her kids created world peace, ended hunger, or put every social worker and librarian in a concentration camp, not having the kid does affect me.

 

[Pure]

jbj,

every "librarian in a concentration camp."

i like that. hamonizes with amicus "exterminate the insects" approach to "liberals" (i.e. those who disagree).

you may be aware of the old saying: if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS is the man!

 

[Liar]

~~~

Yes, Liar, I do want to know. Perhaps not at the moment as it approaches 6am, I have a belly full and although my mind seems to be working well, my fingers need coaxing to find the right keys....at your convenience then?

Amicus...

Your original statement was: "God almighty Liar, if you see that why don't you get the rest of it? It all fits, it really does, every thing I say."

Because however valid isolated points you make sometimes are, that doesn't mean I have to genuflect at your feet and gobble up all the other stuff as if it was divine truth.

Because you time and again let the points you make become so hyperbolic that they bleed over the edges of reason and rationality, and into sillyness, irrelevance and plain old incorrectness. (Wtf does socialist ideology have to do with the environmental delusion of the ladies in this article? Any connection is a conspiracist's brain fart.)

Because people who chant "It all fits" are usually found on street corners, wearing rags, tangly three feet beards and vapid gazes, holding home made cardboard signs with poorly spelled Bible quotes on them. Or some besement dweller who've watched so much X-files they forgot it's fiction.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

"Because people who chant "It all fits" are usually found on street corners, wearing rags, tangly three feet beards and vapid gazes, holding home made cardboard signs with poorly spelled Bible quotes on them. Or some besement dweller who've watched so much X-files they forgot it's fiction."

Or the local school board.

 

[Pure]

rationality.

jbj PURE

If her kids created world peace, ended hunger, or put every social worker and librarian in a concentration camp, not having the kid does affect me.

if her babies grew wings and flitted about your head on hot summer's days, you'd be affected also--cooler.

 

[emap]

I know my english isn't always the best, I have an excuse for this morning, I was all eager for him to come home and give me a nice morning fuck.

So anyway, it's not just Los Angeles with smog, we have 'brown' days here in Pheonix to, not just the factories doing that, I have been by many, rarely is there smoke pouring out. I see more gases coming out of cars, semi's and planes than the factories. Well Ok I gotta admit the one factory I remember seeing with smoke pouring out it was white and apparently supposed to be steam.

Speaking of changed places from the past, the spot where I lost my virginity is now part of the town, I'm not sure but I think the actual spot is someone's kitchen now, may be a bedroom or bathroom. I didn't go in or talk to the owners so no clue, though of course it may be besides the house or in the backyard, the tree's are gone and of course there is an actual road there now. I'm not sure I am mad or amused about that, but well sorta goes along with you and James.

 

[WRJames]

Aren't birth rates extremely low in many European countries? Maybe not everyone is as extreme as this woman, but it seems that many are choosing to have few or no children. I have seen studies that Europe may wind up predominantly Moslem if this trend continues.

In the US we have some groups that are having a LOT of children (Hassidic Jews, in my neck of the woods) and others that are like the Europeans -- not very fertile. Once again, this is shifting the ethnic proportions.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

WRJ

It's all over in a few places, like the Netherlands.

 

[xssve]

AMICUS

Youre correct that its generally government that fucks over the environment. Thirty years ago I owned a home on a wild river that the government transformed into a drainage canal because of flooding.

It's not the "government", it's a government responsive to idiots who insist on developing on flood plains and wetlands.

 

[Pure]

good point, x,

it's not the "government", it's a government responsive to idiots who insist on developing on flood plains and wetlands.

our major city is surrounded by farm lands, and some 'moraine' drainage areas for the rivers.

there is great consumer demand for a home 30 miles out of the city; that's one factor. these consumers vote.

second is the so called developers, who have millions to spend. the local governments are easily influenced, so it falls to the province. but both libs and conservatives listen to developers and business interests.

so the province makes a show of saying. "ok, you can have this area, but this other area is protected." i.e. give them half a loaf. five years later, however, some 'developer' wants a chunk of the protected area, say 30%. so again, the gov says, "we're protecting this. how about 15%."

this is the nature of 'democracy' in ontario and in the US. governement is a lapdog. NOT the tyranny imagined by the right. a bit bureaucratic, but a lapdog. and you know which side has the money, the lawyers to get through the bureaucracy. it's esp. easy, if the bureaucracy is peopled, GWB style, with business folks, e.g. the FCC.

 

[Pure]

good points, wr.

Aren't birth rates extremely low in many European countries? Maybe not everyone is as extreme as this woman, but it seems that many are choosing to have few or no children. I have seen studies that Europe may wind up predominantly Moslem if this trend continues.

the woman's decision, as reported in the first post, is the same as thousands of others, though its proposed reasons are 'green'. italy, for example, has a birth rate near 1.0. few 'incentives' tried by various countries, are big enough to matter.

HOWEVER, the fear of 'moslem' europe--race suicide!-- is mostly right wing paranoia.

if you look at history, the fear of the US being engulfed with asians or mexicans goes back a century or more. the whites are still in charge, mostly anglos. *And here the key thing*: the hispanics who do 'make it', are like Alberto Gonzales. different skin, but the same 'white', anglo mind, superiority, etc. so although the ethic composition of the top stratum has changed *slightly*, the elite still functions as before. ( iirc correctly BUSH was getting almost 40% of the hispanic vote, the first time around.)

if and when muslims have any significant parliamentary rep'n in europe, get appointed to cabinet, etc. they will be thoroughly imbued with the values of the current elite. and the voters, the 'ethnic' ones, will, like the US hispanics, be voting conservative, even 'xenophobic' quite often!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

PURE! Shame on you.

Youre correct in all you assert AND you miss one salient point. The government will go to war with small-fry, pipsqueak homeowners over a god-damned shallow ditch that drains into nowhere, or a small piece of galvanized pipe stuck in the ground.

I bought some lots to build on. The previous owner dug a ditch to catch run-off from the road. I wanted to move the culvert and drive a few feet. "No god-damn way, Jose!" said the government. "We'll see you in court!"

Then they noticed a piece of pipe hammered into the ground near where I wanted the septic tank to go. The inspector said the pipe was a well. I pulled it up and showed him it was a piece of pipe. Doesnt matter. "Its a well."

So I took the pipe to the building board, so they could see it wasnt a well.

 

[Pure]

jbj, you miss the point, too.

PURE! Shame on you.

Youre correct in all you assert AND you miss one salient point. The government will go to war with small-fry, pipsqueak homeowners over a god-damned shallow ditch that drains into nowhere, or a small piece of galvanized pipe stuck in the ground.

I bought some lots to build on. The previous owner dug a ditch to catch run-off from the road. I wanted to move the culvert and drive a few feet. "No god-damn way, Jose!" said the government. "We'll see you in court!"

without disputing your story, it's typical of a 'little guy' being frustrated, by a low level bureaucrat. US politics is NOT for the little guy, the small business, etc.

were it a major developer, with its stable of lawyers, 'see you in court' would have a different meaning. even our major city would NOT put five lawyers on the case, as can a large company. moving culverts is small change. entire rivers have been diverted when there's business muscle, not to say corruption of the the review process.

ADD: further, businesses can take a long view. if the current pols are unsympathetic, the businesses approach the so called 'opposition' party. they fund a candidate for the next election. finally a friendly face is installed; the pol then leans on the bureaucrats or even replaces them.

 

[Katyusha]

AMICUS

You solve all the problems by consolidating people, commerce, etc. in square mile size complexes of multiple levels. Recreation at the very top, transportation on the bottom-level. Connect the complexes with mono-rail and limited access roads. Think of Disney World.

Except for the fact that arcologies don't really work. There's really only been one successful one, outside of Prescott, AZ, and even that success is marginal.

Arcologies only ever worked in SimCity 2.

 

[Katyusha]

AMICUS

I read somewhere that Roe vs Wade has hurt Democrats significantly more than Republicans, because Dems are killing-off their supply of supporters.

Yeah I read that too. The only problem with that theory is that many of the people who support abortion are not likely to have abortions themselves. Like me, for instance, I support abortion because I believe in a woman's right to choose, and because I know what will happen if Roe v. Wade is overturned; we'll go back to the days of back-alley abortions and unsafe procedures and many more women dying needlessly because they were desperate.

But I don't think that abortion is a choice I could ever make for myself, regardless of my circumstances. Same as thousands of other people who support abortion.

See the problem?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

KATYUSHA

I believe you. But this state is twixt a rock and a hard-on in terms of land costs and home insurance and property taxes. Not to mention the cost to commute to work.

In ten years the idea of riding a mono-rail to work or college or the court house or airport, and living in close proximity to recreation, shopping, medical care, and local schools will be a lot more appealing.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

KATYUSHA

There's no problem for me. Your abortion doesnt harm me or my progeny.

 

[Guest]

Circle jerk? *snicker*

(Naughty Pure.)


So a woman chooses not to have children. She cites "green" as the reason for her decision and gets sterilized at a young age.

So what?

 

[Liar]

So a woman chooses not to have children. She cites "green" as the reason for her decision and gets sterilized at a young age.

So what?

People do weird things for illogic reasons all the time. It's when they do and get to pose with a smug grin in a big newspaper supposedly expecing praise and to inspire others to do the same, that I reserve the right to laugh at them.

 

[Guest]

People do weird things for illogic reasons all the time. It's when they do and get to pose with a smug grin in a big newspaper supposedly expecing praise and to inspire others to do the same, that I reserve the right to laugh at them.

Oh, I agree!

It was the angst that seemed to be compounding here on this thread that drew my own laughter, as a matter of fact.

 

[amicus]

Yeah I read that too. The only problem with that theory is that many of the people who support abortion are not likely to have abortions themselves. Like me, for instance, I support abortion because I believe in a woman's right to choose, and because I know what will happen if Roe v. Wade is overturned; we'll go back to the days of back-alley abortions and unsafe procedures and many more women dying needlessly because they were desperate.

But I don't think that abortion is a choice I could ever make for myself, regardless of my circumstances. Same as thousands of other people who support abortion.

See the problem?

~~~

I love your screen name, Katyusha, perhaps you will share the origin and reason you chose it?

However, I do not recall having seen you post before but not sure on that, a pleasure to make your acquaintance.

I enjoy gardening, always have from when I was a boy. I recently completed drying some of the flowers and vegetables and harvested and stored the seeds for next years garden.

I have separate plastic containers for pumpkin, squash and cucumber seeds, four varieties of tomato, sweet corn, pesky onion seeds, very tiny and a dozen or so varieties of flowers for decoration.

One among the flowers, Marigolds, I think, amazed me by to location and number of the fragile seeds, all tightly bound together in a sphere, protected by a tough outer skin that protected the precious store of future life.

That the produce of those vegetables and flowers was useful and attractive to me, it remains that the entire purpose of each of those plants was to produce seeds for a following generation of like flora life.

You've no doubt parsed where I am taking this, consider the above a gentle seduction into the logic and reason of my efforts rather than a blunt object to gain your attention.

Not in a religious sense, as I am an atheist, but life is miraculous in many ways, I think, all life, human life above all as it is the most complex of all. And while the fluff from a dandelion seed pod casts its fate to the wind in hopes of landing in a fertile environment, much of nature too, functions innately and automatically to reproduce and continue the species, whatever it may be.

Each human female, even before birth, comes fully equipped with several hundred ova, eggs, each containing the entire genetic make-up of the individual hosting those little globes of life.

That is rather marvelous and miraculous in my eyes, perhaps yours also?

Now this little human female, crawls and stumbles and learns to walk and grow and mature and carries those eggs within her for a dozen times around the sun or so until finally, nature calls and she enters center stage in her life process, ready to join the march of humanity into the genetic future.

Since we possess life, courtesy of those who created each and every one of us, we have an innate right to that life. We institute government and laws among us to protect and defend that life. One of the choices forbidden individuals in our way of life is that they may not choose to take another human life unless and until due process is fulfilled.

Were there not such protections of life and the values of life, one might rationalize taking the life of a child born blind or an old person incapacitated by age and infirmity. A rational, just society must have respect for life at all levels or that society is doomed to fail and consume itself.

I do not expect to change your position on this or any issue, but I do expect to provide you are others with the means to understand and comprehend the rational and moral approach to this subject.

regards...

Amicus...

 

[Pure]

well, liar, if you're a good marxist you know that 'stated reasons' are not the issue.

in the larger picture, well to do, educated women are deciding NOT to have kids or to have just one. why? because the society doesn't give a fuck, esp. in more 'capitalist' countries like the US. it's too damn hard to work and raise a kid, and get promoted. and the US thinks she should pay the $400/week daycare, 'cause it's her problem, not society's. further women don't just want to 'breed', they want to reach six figures by 35, just like the guys.

so some may say "career", some may say, "money," some may say "green planet", and some "zero population growth." it doesn't much matter, the result is the same: it's the newcomers, the poor, then non protestant, the non xian who fill the newborn wards at the hospitals.

 

[Katyusha]

KATYUSHA

There's no problem for me. Your abortion doesnt harm me or my progeny.

*My* abortion? Where did I say *I* would have an abortion? Just because I support abortion in general doesn't mean I would choose to have one myself.

Same with thousands of others who support it. I was mentioning a problem with a theory, not with you or anybody else who doesn't support abortion.