Do you use Readers/Editors and if so, how many?

[roowa]

So I have a story I want to submit in the upcoming NND story event (EV, of course, ~12K words), but I'm having trouble finding an editor. That's not specifically what this post is about, though. What I'm curious about from others is more in general terms:

1. Do you use an Editor?
2. If you do, do you ALWAYS use one, or only sometimes?
3. If only sometimes, is there some 'criteria' when you think it makes sense to vs not?
4. If you do used an Editor, do you ever use more than 1?
5. If you use more than 1, do let them all know you're using more than one? Or other etiquette things I should consider?
6. Aside from Editors, have you ever 'just' used a Reader instead (I don't mean 'just' to disparage, I simply mean I wouldn't expect them to check grammar, tense, etc... Mainly they'd just check readability, believability, 'heat' and such)?

I know I asked kind of a lot there, so please don't feel like I'm expecting you to answer every question.

I'm mainly just trying to figure out how/when I should consider seeking Editor(s) and/or Reader(s) and how to handle it if (by some miracle maybe) more than one VE I've reached out to eventually responds. I have 3 requests I've thrown out there, but no responses yet, so i'm not sure if I should just keep throwing darts, or...?

TIA,
Roo

 

[NotWise]

I have used editors before, but I stopped largely because, without getting to know a good editor, the quality of editing was unpredictable.

I usually have my stories beta-read. I've had as many as ten readers on one story, but usually it's just one or two. As with editors, there's a big variation in what you get from a beta reader, and it's best to get to know them and what you expect from them.

 

[Blind_Justice]

#1: Yes, I work with an editor. I can probably get by just running a spell checker or parse the whole thing through Grammarly, but since I'm not a native speaker, I want to make sure my flow reads as close to proper English as possible and my editor catches all the little off bits of word use or sentence structure which slip past.

#2: If possible, I work with my editor all the time. See #1.

#4: I've worked with several people over the years, especially when my main collaborator isn't available. But on any single project, I work with one editor. That's usually enough and it would be a dick move to throw one editor under the bus only for another to do a second polishing run.

#6: Beta readers are so freaking important to me. I tend to second-guess what I've written the moment I've saved the document. Having a somewhat impartial set of eyes to tell me I talked utter bullshit is a huge help. Usually, I ask them for advice on flow, verbosity, coherence, that kind of feedback. I'm happy to correct any glaring technical issues they point out, but grammar, spelling and punctuation usually is the editor's job. My wife reads everything I write and I have a small circle of regular readers who thankfully don't hesitate to call bull when bull happens.

If you want to find an editor, your best bet is to post in the Editor's forum and ask nicely. Include story length, major kinks and expected turnaround time. Be friendly and reasonable and someone might bite. Have your PM's enabled so a prospective editor can get in touch.

 

[KeithD]

For erotica, I use one editor, who also is one of my publishers. For my mainstream works, the publisher provides an editor they pay for--usually one of their freelancers. I freelanced for mainstream book publishers for over twenty years myself (based on university training as a book editor).

 

[UsuallyPresent]

I would LOVE to, but my primary creative focus right now is on "Hinn", which is currently in excess of 130,000 words and growing, not counting reference docs & the like.

I've had critiques of some of my stuff, which has been very helpful, but no one has yet been willing to wrassle with that bear. Not that I blame them - that's a lot of work, and unless I end up publishing for profit somewhere I'll likely keep doing what I've been doing.

What I've been doing:
- Create the setting
- Write the plot as a timeline
- Fill in the details, chapter by chapter
Rince, recycle, repeat.

Once I've gotten a goodly chunk, it's time for an editing pass. Between MS Word and Grammarly and the stupidity that is reviewing my own work, I've only been SOMEwhat embarassed to date.

There are pieces of the worldbuilding I've gone back and 'adjusted' must be more'n a half-dozen times, and others that worked out of the box. Others ended up being thrown onto the digital bit bucket, where something interesting may grow from their remnants- we'll see.

I haven't worked with beta readers. I should probably give that a try, when next I get a bit.

Hope this helps...

 

[VermillionVenusian]

I have used a few different editors, found from the Volunteer Editor program here. They didn’t do bad jobs, but they weren’t incredibly thorough either. My stories I have posted without an editor have done just fine, so I wonder if it matters. I would love to build the kind of long-term writer-editor relationship that it seems many of the experienced authors here have but, like Roo, I’m pretty new here.

To ask a related question: what is the point of the Editor’s forum? I mean, I understand that it’s to help writers find editors, but the Volunteer Editor program seems to fulfill that function too (and to a greater degree of precision, it seems). Why make a forum post asking for an editor when I could browse the active VEs, find a few that specifically align with my category, and message them? Are there really willing editors that lurk the forum but aren’t in the VE program?

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

So I have a story I want to submit in the upcoming NND story event (EV, of course, ~12K words), but I'm having trouble finding an editor. That's not specifically what this post is about, though. What I'm curious about from others is more in general terms:

1. Do you use an Editor?
2. If you do, do you ALWAYS use one, or only sometimes?
3. If only sometimes, is there some 'criteria' when you think it makes sense to vs not?
4. If you do used an Editor, do you ever use more than 1?
5. If you use more than 1, do let them all know you're using more than one? Or other etiquette things I should consider?
6. Aside from Editors, have you ever 'just' used a Reader instead (I don't mean 'just' to disparage, I simply mean I wouldn't expect them to check grammar, tense, etc... Mainly they'd just check readability, believability, 'heat' and such)?

I know I asked kind of a lot there, so please don't feel like I'm expecting you to answer every question.

I'm mainly just trying to figure out how/when I should consider seeking Editor(s) and/or Reader(s) and how to handle it if (by some miracle maybe) more than one VE I've reached out to eventually responds. I have 3 requests I've thrown out there, but no responses yet, so i'm not sure if I should just keep throwing darts, or...?

TIA,
Roo

I’m a part of the VE program, and in my experience, many of the writers that ask me to proof and betaread are likewise asking other editors as well. It’s your prerogative whether you’d like multiple perspectives from different editors, and you’re not obligated to tell anyone whether you’re also working with others to improve your work-product.

I don’t work with any editors for my own stories. I recently wrote a story that’s outside of my cultural experience and background, and a couple of my followers volunteered to be betareaders; their feedback was invaluable.

These are great questions and I hope that my feedback is useful. Best of luck with your NND entry!

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Are there really willing editors that lurk the forum but aren’t in the VE program?

Yes; to my understanding, there are quite a few. Likewise, it’s sometimes easier for an author to find an available editor by posting specs about a story than by searching the VE profiles. Since many writers lament the wending and winding path to finding an editor, I personally think it’s helpful to have multiple routes.

 

[Blind_Justice]

To ask a related question: what is the point of the Editor’s forum? I mean, I understand that it’s to help writers find editors, but the Volunteer Editor program seems to fulfill that function too (and to a greater degree of precision, it seems). Why make a forum post asking for an editor when I could browse the active VEs, find a few that specifically align with my category, and message them? Are there really willing editors that lurk the forum but aren’t in the VE program?

In my experience, going through the Editor's Forum is quicker and less aggravating than having to send contact letters to half a dozen VE's, only to never hear back from them. Good for you if you managed to find help through the VE program. I didn't.

 

[KeithD]

To ask a related question: what is the point of the Editor’s forum? I mean, I understand that it’s to help writers find editors, but the Volunteer Editor program seems to fulfill that function too (and to a greater degree of precision, it seems). Why make a forum post asking for an editor when I could browse the active VEs, find a few that specifically align with my category, and message them? Are there really willing editors that lurk the forum but aren’t in the VE program?

I think it's the other way around--that you are more likely to find an "editor" (more likely more "another set of eyes," I think, either on the forum or through the VE program) from the Editor's Forum (and, especially, the sticky at the top that has editors noting their availability on a monthly basis) than you are in trying to find one through the Volunteer Editor program. The Number One post to the Editor's Forum seems to be "I can't get a VE to answer my messages."

 

[roowa]

...The Number One post to the Editor's Forum seems to be "I can't get a VE to answer my messages."

^^^my (limited) experience so far. I like 'the idea' of the VE program (seeing VE profiles & their preferences, why they think they'd be a good editor, what/if they've written their own, etc.), it just doesn't seem to be turning up an actual person for me yet and I don't want to send even more PMs in case several people suddenly respond.

Editor's Forum is next, I think, but I wonder if I'll just get someone no better at Editing than I am (if anyone at all).

or maybe just trying to find a Reader to run it past. tbh that might be all I really need to make it passable, anyway.

Just curious to hear 'what works' for others when it comes to Editors/Readers. Thx for the responses.

 

[KeithD]

Editor's Forum is next, I think, but I wonder if I'll just get someone no better at Editing than I am (if anyone at all).

That's pretty much what you're faced with in a venue where you can't check out the credentials of an actual person. I vetted years ago on my actual training/experience with the Editors Forum mod (not that she'd remember that anymore), but I highly doubt others have. The best I think you could do here is to check someone's stories out here who is hanging out an "editor" shingle. If they don't have stories posted here, you'd probably be best to just bypass them. It's true that you don't have to write stories to be a good--and credentialed--editor, but Literotica gives little/no way to vet anyone and it just lets anyone who wants to declare as a VE to set up shop here.

When the prospective "editor" has stories here, you can probably determine from them which ones handle grammar and spelling well without being too anal retentive or too high school essay limited. Then message them directly on willingness/ability to edit your story.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Just curious to hear 'what works' for others when it comes to Editors/Readers. Thx for the responses.

I've learned a bunch of self-editing tricks over time which catch most of my goofs, and I've come to accept that perfect copy is almost impossible - and not worth the bother of endless scrubs. I had a couple of trusted beta readers a while back, but they're more virtual now: "What would xxx think about that?"

 

[_Lynn_]

That's pretty much what you're faced with in a venue where you can't check out the credentials of an actual person. I vetted years ago on my actual training/experience with the Editors Forum mod (not that she'd remember that anymore), but I highly doubt others have. The best I think you could do here is to check someone's stories out here who is hanging out an "editor" shingle. If they don't have stories posted here, you'd probably be best to just bypass them. It's true that you don't have to write stories to be a good--and credentialed--editor, but Literotica gives little/no way to vet anyone and it just lets anyone who wants to declare as a VE to set up shop here.

When the prospective "editor" has stories here, you can probably determine from them which ones handle grammar and spelling well without being too anal retentive or too high school essay limited. Then message them directly on willingness/ability to edit your story.

You sayin' I'm forgetful, Bertha?

 

[KeithD]

You sayin' I'm forgetful, Bertha?

I'm saying it's no big deal if you didn't remember. With a few exceptions I haven't been doing the busman's holiday act here anyway.

 

[_Lynn_]

I'm saying it's no big deal if you didn't remember. With a few exceptions I haven't been doing the busman's holiday act here anyway.

 

[Bramblethorn]

1. Do you use an Editor?
2. If you do, do you ALWAYS use one, or only sometimes?
3. If only sometimes, is there some 'criteria' when you think it makes sense to vs not?
4. If you do used an Editor, do you ever use more than 1?
5. If you use more than 1, do let them all know you're using more than one? Or other etiquette things I should consider?
6. Aside from Editors, have you ever 'just' used a Reader instead (I don't mean 'just' to disparage, I simply mean I wouldn't expect them to check grammar, tense, etc... Mainly they'd just check readability, believability, 'heat' and such)?

1. 
   
   1-2: always.
   4. Yes, when I want feedback on different aspects of the story.
   5. I let them know.

 

[Bebop3]

Do you use an Editor?

Yes.

If you do, do you ALWAYS use one, or only sometimes?

The only time I won't use an editor is when I feel guilty about bombarding them with work. I don't remember the exact number, but I believe that I've used Grammarly alone on three stories out of guilt.

If only sometimes, is there some 'criteria' when you think it makes sense to vs not?

It ALWAYS makes sense as long as the editor is talented.


If you do used an Editor, do you ever use more than 1?

Not purposefully, no. I've been lucky enough to have been in a position where someone who was a talented editor was also a beta-reader and the story was effectively edited twice.

If you use more than 1, do let them all know you're using more than one? Or other etiquette things I should consider?

Not applicable to me.

Aside from Editors, have you ever 'just' used a Reader instead (I don't mean 'just' to disparage, I simply mean I wouldn't expect them to check grammar, tense, etc... Mainly they'd just check readability, believability, 'heat' and such)?

I can't remember a story I've posted that hasn't benefited from the input of a beta-reader. They don't take the place of an actual editor, so no, I haven't used 'just' a beta-reader.


Good luck! Both beta-readers and editors have made my work much better than it would have been without them. I owe them a huge debt of gratitude.

 

[GroverLang]

Editor no more

I’ve offered, in a couple of cases, to edit. It was for someone, in both cases, who had just published their first story and I thought, taking away all the mistakes, they’d written very good stories, very imaginative, and had a lot of potential. On both of those occasions, due to their ego, it didn’t work out and now I don’t, and won’t, offer my services to anyone.

Shortly after I began submitting I was approached by another writer who had recently started and we began editing each other’s work. As we both got better it became less of an editor relationship and more about reading and commenting. Sadly, through no fault of my own (I think), that relationship seems to have gone.

I don’t see myself using an editor at any time in the future. We all make mistakes (that aren’t picked up by editors) and that includes mainstream writers. No one is perfect but my ego is telling me (and ego’s are always right, aren’t they? lol) I don’t need one and, in any event, an editor can’t improve the quality of my storytelling. Can they? Am I wrong in thinking that’s something only I can do?

I have received requests to edit, and occasionally I’ve agreed, but it’s got to be no more than three pages and in a category I write in. I find it difficult enough to find time for my own writing. I don’t churn them out every few days, more like every couple of months, and sometimes the gap is considerably longer.

If I was looking for an editor I’d use both the EF and the VE, as I think has been said previously. It doesn’t harm to try all avenues. Even contacting a writer who you consider better than yourself, who writes in the same category, because they can only say no and will be flattered anyway.

I think every writer should strive to get better, not just for the reader, but for their own self esteem

 

[ElectricBlue]

I don’t see myself using an editor at any time in the future. We all make mistakes (that aren’t picked up by editors) and that includes mainstream writers. No one is perfect but my ego is telling me (and ego’s are always right, aren’t they? lol) I don’t need one and, in any event, an editor can’t improve the quality of my storytelling. Can they? Am I wrong in thinking that’s something only I can do?

Ego, chutzpah, the balls to say, "I can do that," and a basic ability to spell and punctuate - they're the basic minimum requirements.

And before the women say, "But what about us," I'll quickly say that in my experience most capable women have bigger balls than men. They're just neater where they keep them. Call yourselves capable and you'll do just fine .

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Editors, the volunteer kind. The first one who responded wanted me to pay him. I told him he could have 50% of my total proceeds from my Lit. sales. Never heard from him again. The next one said he'd do it. I sent the story to him and never heard form him again.

I get comments all the time from reader that I should get proof readers, yet when I ask them if they are volunteering... *crickets*

So, I do the best I can with what I have. Don't like little foibles, volunteer.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don’t need one and, in any event, an editor can’t improve the quality of my storytelling. Can they? Am I wrong in thinking that’s something only I can do?

An editor can't, or shouldn't, try to tell you to write a different story, but an editor can point out plot holes and improbabilities. An editor can identify places where you need to work on a character's response to something or transition from point A to point B to make it more plausible. That kind of advice can be extremely helpful, although I think sometimes it's perhaps more helpful in the brainstorming stage than when the near-final draft is done. I've gotten some helpful advice along these lines in two threads I recently started asking for advice about a "submissive test."

 

[KeithD]

Editors, the volunteer kind. The first one who responded wanted me to pay him. I told him he could have 50% of my total proceeds from my Lit. sales. Never heard from him again. The next one said he'd do it. I sent the story to him and never heard form him again.

I suggest that any VE editor contacted who asked for pay to edit a Lit. story should be reported directly to Laurel, who, I would hope, would delete them from the VE system.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I suggest that any VE editor contacted who asked for pay to edit a Lit. story should be reported directly to Laurel, who, I would hope, would delete them from the VE system.

I did report it to _Lynn_ who was in charge of them at the time. I think she booted him as it wasn't his first time.

 

[_Lynn_]

I did report it to _Lynn_ who was in charge of them at the time. I think she booted him as it wasn't his first time.

I can't boot anyone. Only Laurel can. When I receive a notification of a reported post/thread, they automatically go to her, too. Most things I can take care of, such as e-mail addresses, full stories, or posts with underage characters. If I receive information through a PM that I can't fix, I forward that to her.

I appreciate everyone who helps keep the forums "clean".